Tiger Australia grounded by CASA
 

running on the D & G forum but probarbly deserves a wider forum

Looking at the over all picture I think CASA probably had to act, based on what has been reported (so far not disputed by Tiger) CASA had been investigating concerns since March, have issued a show cause notice. Then the ATSB starts an investigation of a Tiger flight busting Lowest Safe Altitude on 7 June, and another flight descends below LSALT on 30 June (another ATSB investigation), this was probably a last straw event.

There is clearly cause for concern, as this looks like more than a run of bad luck.

Two altitude busts in one month, (not) bad.....

On the news tonight, a flight engineer stated that he would not have flown with Tiger Airways anyway, due to the knowledge he had about their operation (from what I can gather giving viewers the indication that the issue was an engineering safety issue).

Now coming here, I see reports that are based on flight operations (LSA's) being the issue, not engineering. (I think I'll trust PPRuNe before the 6'oclock news personally), but I would be interested to know if there have been any official release as to what CASA's concerns are that have closed down an entire airline during the start of the school holidays for at least the first week.

From Tiger's CEO, Davis - The minute I hear that cute middle management BS phrase inserted into a statement, I know full well that the speaker has got to his position by substantial applications of BS... rather than any capable management ability, or leadership skills... :suspect:

The man must be in training to be a politician...

"CASA says the action has been taken because it believes permitting the airline to continue to fly poses a serious and imminent risk to air safety.

CASA spokesman Peter Gibson said the action was not taken lightly and was the culmination of a number of events this year."

Tiger domestic flights suspended: CASA | News | Business Spectator

Does not sound like a happy ending....

thats just brilliant for me... i was supposed to start ground school...and iv been on hold, . im totally disappointed at tiger and the way they operate, seriously forget being a customer, tigers ruined my career and others who are in the same position as me...tiger needs to be more ethical and responsible.

Given the 2 reported "minimum safe altitude" violations in June, the latter of which seems to have precipitated this grounding - is the issue here mainly pilot training? Why would there be systematic problems in this area - short cuts, pilot inexperience/unqualified or even incompetance?

TGW/TT show cause notice and now AOC suspension?
 

Can anyone shed light on the original CASA “show cause” in March 2011? How did TGW/TT respond? Why has that response and their subsequent operations not satisfied CASA? Did CASA during this period change the goal posts? Have there been any recent changes in personnel or the head count in TGW/TT CEO, Flight Ops, Maintenance, Training, Safety Management, Quality Assurance, and Compliance Depts. etc.?

How can TGW senior management have allowed the situation to deteriorate to such a level as an AOC suspension? One would have thought that a “show cause” would have been more than a sufficient warning, rap on the knuckles, an alarm bell, a necessary wake up call, gentle coercion or arm twisting for TGW management indeed to respond in an appropriate and timely manner? The suspension last night could hardly be seen by accountable and responsible TGW managers as “out of the blue”, an ambush, or a surprise? Given CASA’s close oversight, inspection and regulation, why could they not convince TGW to behave earlier? Can someone please give some insight into the real safety and compliance culture at TGW and TT in particuliar?

Were TGW managers asleep on the job, complacent, blasé, incompetent, dysfunctional, not fit for purpose, negligent, inexperienced, arrogant, or distracted? How did TGW’s financial situation / loss making play out? Was TGW/TT sufficiently resourced? How could the Tiger Board supposedly exercising due diligence and corporate governance allow a not insignificant Australian airline’s ( 10 + A320s ) brand, reliability and safety reputation ( and maybe that of the Singapore TR as well ) to be diminished or even destroyed by an AOC suspension? Given the strong links and association with TR in Singapore who continue to fly into Australia for the time being begs the question, are they any better? With a different AOC and regulator, just how do TR in Singapore do things differently to TT in Australia? Why would SIA/SQ as 30 odd per cent shareholders want or need to be associated with this lot?

Looks like the TGW/TT (and maybe including TR) LCC business model needs major surgery as opposed to some cosmetic changes and minor tweaking around the edges.

Safety is no accident, and if you can’t be safe, then be bloody careful!

I wonder if CASA will take similar action with another Australian LCC that had an incident a Melbourne a while back, or are they just being selective?

New Chief Pilot took the job in April, I understand. If half the stories I've heard are true, he took on a poison chalice, to put it mildly.

Wow!

All we know is that on two occasions Tiger Airways crews descended below MSA on approach.

We do not know what led to that. We do not know if it was two unrelated incidents of crew error or if it is a systemic flaw in training, operation or maintenaince at Tiger Airways.

Some may hold a grouch against Tiger or against LCC airlines or management in general, but the information is not there yet to conclude anything.

CASA has to err on the safe side, and there may be a hint in the steps they have taken, but still nothing conclusive.

The AVV incident can be viewed via Webtrak if you select 11pm on 30/06/2011 although part of the go-around is outside the system limits.

From what I have read, there were maintenance concerns, but the primary concern was Pilot proficiency. This Plane Talking blog by Ben Sandilands makes interesting reading.

If the sequence of events is confirmed, saving a few dollars with an attempted downwind landing, flying below LSALT and landing without a clearance is a scary occurrence.:eek:

RobShan,
At the time, the Avalon aerodrome was uncontrolled, the tower had closed about an hour earlier.
The whole incident was tracked by Melbourne radar, so ATSB (and, presumably, CASA) have complete details of the track and heights of the aircraft.
There is significant terrain in the immediate vicinity of the airfield.
Tootle pip!!

Hmmm, from Plane Talking:
The above quote is maybe an indicator of the level of ingnorance by some commentators. The wind on approach and the wind on the ground are not the same thing. It is quite normal in some places to experience 20-30 knots tailwind on approach and with the risk of getting high despite the wind on the ground being VRB/5!

TG and Tiger ready to joint venture : TTRweekly

March 2, 2011

Thank you for information, a check of the winds at Avalon at the time (see below) shows steady down wind for runway 18 on the ground and (I am not a pilot) I suspect well with limits for a landing with wind on the tail. At Melbourne 50km away where they were experiencing similar winds they were landing into the wind; it is probably worth asking the question.


Dir Spd Gust Spd Gust
km/h km/h kts kts
11:30pm NNE 9 13 5 7
11:00pm NNE 15 22 8 12
10:30pm NE 13 15 7 8
10:00pm ENE 11 13 6 7
09:30pm NE 13 17 7 9
09:00pm NNE 13 17 7 9
08:30pm NNE 15 19 8 10
08:00pm NNE 13 17 7 9
07:30pm N 11 17 6 9
07:00pm NNE 17 20 9 11
06:30pm NNE 22 28 12 15
06:00pm NNE 17 24 9 13
05:30pm NNE 19 24 10 13

Thank you for the reply, I have generally found Ben's blog a reliable source of information. The fact the tower closed three hours earlier, shows his information is not correct in this case. It may be it is totally wrong or it may be something like the flight left controlled airspace descending without proper clearance.

As a matter full disclosure, my sentence quoted above did start with "If the sequence of events is confirmed..." which did come from doubt because of the limited amount of confirmed information available.