.Mean - like in the front of an Airbus ?

Somewhat, yes. This would not be a coincidence. The recliner would be a deliberate amplification of the boredom that might arise in a cockpit. It's possible to override moderate fatigue briefly in a dire emergency (which incidentally is not true of impairment due to most drugs), but the safety issue is impairment during a normal flight, not impairment while spiraling into a mountainside leaving a trail of flame. Because highly automated flight can be boring and sleep-encouraging, the bar for rest and alertness must be set high.

Not really. If the tests are reported to the respective CAA and a large quantity of X Airlines pilots are deemed unfit due to fatigue, it could be an evidence to a poor rostering practise on behalf of the airline; they can't kick +50% of their pilots. I think AnthonyGA makes a very good point, hit the airline where it hurts: the pockets. There has to be a way to prove impairment and unfitness due to fatigue.

Testing for fatigue
 

Perhaps someone could weigh in on this adjunct to the dissucsion of alcohol testing--namely that of testing for fatigue.

I flew with a gent once who could speak at length about a simple procedure measuing the dialation speed of the pupils as a marker of fatigue/impairment. I know if the United States a police officer will often shine a penlight at a suspects eyes to get a rough guess as to what he/she is dealing with. (I did say rough guess so I know it does not hold up for anything)

Apparently rather sophisitcated, but portable, devices are under consideration (or are in test) that can do this quite rapidly. From what he maintained, it gives a very decent idea as just how faitgued one is.

Now I realize that there are legions of complexities that are probably involved in testing pilots on this, but it does raise an interesting question regarding a fitness to fly scenario. I know it it not as onerous as how the Europeans and UK carriers can schedule, but one can fly 15 days straight from the US on 5 three day trips--thus 10 ocean crossings in those 15 days with no day off between trips. I have seen others assigned these types of schedules and fatigue was a factor that forced them to stand down. Again, a light schedule by what the Europeans do, but I use it as an example of a pattern that could induce enough fatigue to serve as a good test for such an experiment.

Anyone with medical experience that can comment on this? Is it viable? If so I can imagine that air carriers around the world would spend millions to fight it ever being implemented. How else could they run their schedules?

Uncle Fred,
validated tests for quantifying fatigue, though possible, are difficult to undertake, especially in view of multiple confounders. It is easy that the regulators and airlines redefine FDTL (EASA already has a draft notification in place) and the stakeholders, the pilots unions, are chosen to be equal partners.

At the individual level, each pilot has to be accountable but for him-/herself, including following hygiene factors like abstaining/acceptable consumption of alcohol, adequate rest/sleep and willingness to owe it up, when not ship shape.

Or else, we may have crash due to probable sleep inertia, or deplorable acts by airline managements, without worrying about the outcome or aviation safety.

Ok a compromise:
Test all crew, before every flight, for alcohol and drug use.
At the same time test them for fatique, being tired, and a host of other human factors.
I'd heartily agree with that:D

Alcohol Testing
 

Can anyone please point me to any ECA or IFALPA position papers on Alcohol Testing. Thanks

Slightly off subject, but in terms of territory, I think I am right in recalling a situation in which Police officers did not board an El Al Flight in Heathrow due to confusion over territory etc to arrest a High Ranking Israeli officer....

I suppose it also had something to do with the El Al security guys on board as well....

Think it took so long, that in the end the plane indeed did return to its homeland. Believe in that case the Police actually did have the right to board that plane.

EZ: When reaching taxiing speed during landing run the aircraft becomes the territory of the country it landed in (before: When leaving the runway...)

Pilot accused of flying drunk on US flight

As reported here on Friday 18 March: Gold Coast Breaking News :: News | goldcoast.com.au | Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia

A UNITED Express pilot has been accused of flying drunk on a 2009 flight from Texas to Denver.

XYZ, of N, Virginia, was indicted by a federal grand jury in Denver in relation to the flight from Austin on December 8, 2009, The Denver Post said.
The US Attorney's office in Denver said the 32-year-old was the first officer, or co-pilot, on United Express Flight 7687, operated by Shuttle America.
The airline reportedly received a tip that Mr Cope was flying while intoxicated.
The indictment says he "unlawfully operated and directed the operation of a common carrier while under the influence of alcohol".
If convicted, Mr Z faces up to 15 years in jail and a fine of up to $250,000.
"The message this case sends is simple: Pilots who drink and fly will be prosecuted and face incarceration," US Attorney John Walsh said.
Shuttle America is a subsidiary of Indianapolis-based Republic Airways Holdings, which also owns Frontier Airlines.
Read more at The Denver Post.

Big deal. No deaths ever caused by this issue. What is the fascination with the subject when so many bigger issues occupy us professionals? True pilots know all about it.

Small quantities of Alcohol
 

Since starting this thread, I also tried different route to obtain some info. Bellow is info received from Swedish ALPA which was confirmed in telephone call with Swedish CAA.



"Alcohol testing of air crew on duty (pilots and cabin crew) can be made in Swedish Airports on a random basis. It will be performed by police officers, in uniform or plain clothes as a “Breathalyzer check”.
It will in this case be performed prior to or after flight, either on board or in direct connection with crew boarding/disembarking the aircraft. It shall never be performed in front of passengers.
No reports / paperwork required if the test is negative. If, however, the test is positive the pilot or cabin attendant will be escorted to perform a so called “evidence test” with higher accuracy, either via a blood sample or breathalyzer. The limit is 0,02% alcohol in blood."

Having heard and read more and more about these "walk in and blow" tests, I have decided for myself that I will refuse it should it happen to me.

I am sick and tired of being criminalized and put under a general suspicion without anything indicating any fault on my side.

I am being security screened every damn time I enter my workplace so I don't hijack myself with my swiss army knife, and now I am being placed under the general assumption to be drunk at work, and they make ME prove MY OWN INNOCENCE!
In any civilized country the proof of burden is on the governments side, not on the subject's. This is going way too far, and as I have said, I will refuse the test if the police cannot give me any reason on why they would suspect me of being drunk. If I stumpled around doing the outsidecheck, fine, if they claim to smell booze on my breath, fine, but no way in hell am I going to give in for no reason at all.

Well said, Sir !

Nil Illegitimum Carborundum. ( or similar )

Well said Admiral
 

Lets put a stop to this before it gets out of hand!
I was twice sniffed for explosives, in uniform, in front of my passengers???

Well, it might take getting stuck at some airport policestation in a foreign country, and it will take major delays up to cancellation of the flight. And I am sure my chiefpilot might want to have a word with me.
But if that's what it takes to get it out, so be it.

As I have said, I will not agree to a test without a proper reason being brought forward.

Good luck. You cannot win against the government. Additional charges may be brought upon you such as refusing arrest, force against a police officer etc

Just get on with it and spend the 5 seconds it takes

Undoubtedly, but if everyone did it, eventually World Travel would stop, and eventually "someone" would notice.

I'm not an alcoholic and I'm not a Fanatical Terrorist - get used to it.

Sadly it's thinking like that which has enabled the idiots to run the asylum, and is further proof that aircrew generally but pilots specifically are unable to organise themselves and fight this nonsense. I was about to say that we couldn't even organise a decent orgy in a brothel, until I recalled another era in Singapore:E