... DEFINITELY NOT! cheap airfares were not invented by passengers. cheap prices are a means of competition and used to swamp competitors from the makets .....

the passengers expect rules and regulations which avoid fatigue and management boards who are aware of their responsibility ....

... and pilots who know where their personal limits are ....

jcjeant,
In fact, what you have stated occurred couple of years back at Delhi when the British Airways crew refused to take off on account of inadequate rest.

But isn't it bound to occur, if the regulators are lax, and the ops indifferent to crew scheduling.

That article link posted above...I can't believe that they said that due to it being a five star hotel that there was no way they'd be kept awake....we've all been there from time to time, no matter how supposedly luxurious a hotel, building works or other noises prevent any kind of proper sleep. Good for the captain and crew for refusing to fly.

The most hilarious (and I don't mean 'ha ha' funny, but more :ugh:YGBSM funny) thing about the ABC News report is that Randy Babbitt, the head of the FAA (and a former Eastern pilot) told the reporter that he was surprised (shocked, shocked, I tell you :ooh:!!) to hear that pilots were sleeping in the crew lounges because the airlines had told him that it wasn't happening any more, and they always tell the truth (sarcasm very intended).

I know that he sold his soul long ago in order to become the politician he always wanted to be, but come on Randy, stop worrying about which lucrative fees you will lose once you have left government and gone back to consulting if you actually stand up to the airlines in the true name of safety.This has been one of the biggest problems in the industry since before those of us who lived through the Eastern debacle (and you were there too) were fighting Frank Lorenzo, and it will continue to be one until you finally grow a pair.

I fly for the world's largest cargo airline, and we have sleep rooms and recliners all over our hubs and outstations. Nothing wrong with sleeping during downtime at work.

The guys/girls that don't get a crashpad and spend multiple nights there are not exactly shining examples of professionalism, but I don't think that it's a safety problem.

What IS a safety problem: a wage scale that turns away quality. The free market in its purest form: lower pay = lower talent.

I've read all I can read on the Colgan crash. It wasn't fatigue, in my humble opinion. It was pulling instead of pushing, retracting flaps instead of firewall power. It was a lack of flying talent. Sorry to say.

"I've read all I can read on the Colgan crash. It wasn't fatigue, in my humble opinion. It was pulling instead of pushing, retracting flaps instead of firewall power. It was a lack of flying talent. Sorry to say."


I have to agree with you on the pilot skills in that accident but I'll throw in inexperience as a factor too (for the co-pilot).

However fatigue was also an underlying factor in that accident so says the FAA now. Perhaps if the two pilots (or even only one) had gotten a good night's sleep, maybe just maybe they would have reacted differently to the situation prior to the crash.

EK crew rest is simply a coffin in the rear of the jet, no room to sit up and nowhere to even sit and read a book, you lie down, that's it!!!!!!:ugh:

In my opinion, the low cost airlines in particular have provided a means of countering the effects of 'fatigue' by recruiting and then training high calibre personnel to a high standard.

Nevertheless I once 'jumped ship' when extremely fatigued (with the co-operation of the Captain who was a CRM trainer and appreciated the issues) by stating I was suffering from a 'tummy upset'. Heaven forbid the word 'fatigue' was mentioned.

The airline's view being that if the company operates to CAP371 then it must be the pilot who is to blame for not getting sufficient rest (and presumably for flying when fatigued if the unthinkable were to happen).