LHR Inebriated DL Pilot Sentenced to Six Months
 

Drunk pilot who didn't know where he was flying to jailed for 6 months | Mail Online

Similar cases of U.S. pilots arrested at UK airports have usually resulted in acquittal or suspended sentences as I recall.

His blood alcohol was 0.089 %, i.e. slightly above what used to be the legal limit for driving in Germany (it now is 0.05). On top of that, he was found to be an alcoholic. Amazing that he could not recall his destination at that level.

A shame. I hope the guy's given support to beat his illness and turn his life around when he gets out. I doubt he could return to flying due to the conviction (I'd be pleasantly surprised if this weren't the case).

Before another lengthy thread gets started, I'd advise reading this one from the past. Pay particular attention to the postings of LProuse, starting on the third page.

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/2...sm-pilots.html

A U.S. pilot showing up at the airport in the UK with alcohol on his or her breath is certainly nothing new but the six month sentence seems to mark a change in fortune for the accused.

See:

American pilot who drank whiskey in his sleep is cleared - Times Online

Drunk United Airlines pilot avoids jail sentence - NYPOST.com

Heathrow pilot was caught drunk at 9am about to fly to America | Mail Online

SmilingKnifed:

Showing up for the flight in that condition is the end of his career far more than the conviction.

This guy needed helped not incarceration. Again our loopy laws are exposed for the complete joke they are.

And how exactly is this punishment supposed to a) Deter? and b) Rehabilitate?

My sympathies are with him and his family. I am not condoning his behaviour but believe this could have been dealt with in a way that didn't destroy his life whilst acting as a deterrent - a hefty fine, suspended sentence and an order to undertake rehabilitation come to mind.

a) The jail time will be MUCH more of a "wakeup call" than a fine. First, he will be forced to stop drinking for at least 6 months, where with a fine he could (and likely would) continue to drink. Second...

b) There is a very high probability (depending on the jail, of course) that at least the beginnings of rehab, in the form of Alcoholics Anonymous, are READILY available to him. Also, there will be few distractions that might serve to keep him away from the meetings. After he gets out, he can seek formal inpatient or outpatient treatment if he seriously wants to stop drinking.

He "destroyed" his own life, and came VERY close to a situation where he could have destroyed many more. As aterpster noted, his airline career is over already. Maybe he'll decide to work to rebuild the rest of his life.

Jail is the last place to beat any addiction. If only your rose tinted view was correct.

I can't understand how the Captain and the other FO did not detect the alcohol on this fellow's breath whilst checking out of the hotel and sharing crew transport. They would have spent longer in his presence than the security personnel.

Not quite. It is a type of addictive disease. A disease is not something that can be turned on or off. You might as well say, "I understand you have cancer, but don't you dare bring it to work with you".

Showing up for work intoxicated cannot be tolerated but any approach that ignores the medical facts of addictive disease is an approach that only treats the "convenient" symptoms.

L. Prouse is correct.

Alcoholism is symptomatic as are so many addictions not frowned upon (coffee, chocolate, McOops as long as you don't get FAT).

We're all governed by psychology and use, according to influences at different stages of early life, different methods to ameliorate that which we are unaware of, lurking in our psyche.

Whichever way you want to look at it, everyone is addicted to something. A matter of degree ? Many have no clue of their addiction as it is not frowned upon by society.

Women need how many pairs of shoes ?

J.O.:

Most, if not all, U.S. carriers have an intervention and treatment program, which is approved by the FAA. DAL is certainly a participant.

But, it requires that the alcoholic pilot either turn himself in off duty, or friends or family trigger an intervention. My experience as a union rep was that it was almost always an intervention that worked (well, worked at least to get the pilot into in-patient care paid for by the company).

When those two opportunities are missed and it goes to an on-duty situation, it's all over but the shouting.

aterpster, it would seem not. I for one would be glad if it wasn't.

Having read LProse's account in the link J.O kindly provided, it seems there can be redemption. It'll be a difficult road, but I can only wish this individual every success.

A lot of sympathy being shown towards an individual who, knowingly, went to his work fully aware that he was endangering all around him.

Would such sympathy be shown towards him were he tea total yet he had an addiction, a disease, towards nicotine?

Just making a point!

As an outside observer I'm curious, what would have been the disciplinary implications for the fella had he called the airline and said "I'm really sorry, had a few too many last night and I believe I'm ok but over the limit to fly so I can't come to work"?

Hi Fogg

Maybe I was unclear.

The effect of the addictive substance is what counts.

Best.

Mike

p.s. My support rests with this pilot wholeheartedly.

Does anybody have any data on the relative risk of such levels of alcohol compared to flying significantly but not unusually fatigued?

I'm sorry, but I profoundly disagree with some of what's been posted here.

This pilot has not been jailed because he is an alcoholic but because he was a danger to the passengers who should have been able to trust him. A pilot who doesn't know where he is flying to hardly inspires confidence.

And if we assume there are other pilots who may be tempted to drink before flying - whether alcoholic or plain stupid - this sentence may make them think twice. If so, a serious accident may have been avoided.

Think of it the other way round. If you are tempted to drink and fly the knowledge that, if caught, you will get off with a counseling session is hardly a serious consideration. Losing your liberty most certainly is.

SmilingKnifed:

Captain Prose was the singular exception that proved the rule. He was well liked and had friends in high places. Also, he had the determination to work his butt off to work back up from a private certificate on through to his ATP. And, all certificate revocations in the U.S. are afforded that opportunity to re-earn their certificates and ratings; usually after a one year wait. But, they also have the difficult issue of getting their medical certificate back in view of their alcoholism. Plus, with the exception of Captain Prose, their airline job is long gone.

Not necessarily in my observation. In fact, the FE on Captain Prouse's infamous 1990 flight is sober and now flies for American Airlines.

His book about his journey is available on Amazon:

Amazon.com: FLYING DRUNK: The True Story of a Northwest Airlines Flight, Three Drunk Pilots, and One Man's Fight for Redemption (9781932714715): Joseph Balzer: Books

Also, I know of a few other individuals who have quietly had their careers salvaged through a HIMS program:

HIMS - A Substance Abuse Treatment Program For Commercial Pilots

Captain Prouse and the other crew members did hard time in prison for the NWA Fargo incident over 20 years ago. A contemporary news magazine article about the trial may be found here:

Flying Too High in the Sky? - TIME

Have airline pilots other than the one in today's news been sentenced to actual jail time for alcohol in the UK in recent memory?

You'd be surprised at how many forward thinking airlines have programs that are quite successful in helping pilots to get sober and back to flying the line. But the first step is for the pilot to agree to enter the program and to stay there until the doctor releases them back to flying. Typically, if a pilot shows up for duty under the influence, it is much more difficult for them to be accepted in the program. The public damage to both the pilot's and his employer's reputation is very difficult to repair. As was said above, self identification or an intervention from colleagues, friends or family is the best way to get someone into a program.

Anyone who thinks that incarceration is a wake up call, never mind a path to sobriety, is sadly misinformed. Addicts are far more likely to be just as addicted after they get out as when they went in, and in many cases, they become addicted to even worse things than alcohol when they're incarcerated. The only exception would be an incarceration program that includes addiction therapy, but those are few and far between.

It's absolutely correct that this man should not have been flying while inebriated. However, what surprises me is the apparent incapacitation of an individual whose reported blood alcohol level wasn't significantly higher than that considered legal while driving. As a (presumably non-recovering) alcoholic, his system should have had a fair level of alcohol tolerance and, while unfit to fly, I'd have thought most symptoms would be well-masked. Inability to name destination? There's something else going on here.

Airbubba,

He isn't the first to be jailed in UK.

Try this link.

Airline pilot jailed for being twice legal limit as he prepared to fly 200 passengers to Canary Islands | Mail Online

6 months in jail.

There may be others.

Dunno, i never know about the destination i'm flying to until i read the destination section in the NOTAM package or the flightplan, whatever comes first. I just know how many uniform shirts i have to put into my suitcase, that is usually enough.

Yes, especially with rotating schedules, this can certainly be the case...or, if called out on standby.

Or if it's early and you haven't had enough caffiene yet.

"Where are you off to today?"
"Can't remember, where's the coffee machine?"

And I'm teetotal.

Thanks, it looks like six months is a common sentence in the UK for this offense, sometimes it is suspended, sometimes not.

I now see that Captain Prouse takes extreme exception to AA FO Balzer's account of events in his book:

Amazon.com: Profile For Lyle Prouse: Reviews

Captain Prouse has been kind enough to communicate privately with me in the past concerning details of his own journey and I appreciate it.

J.O.;

Many thanks for providing the link to Captain Prouse's posts.

There are a few who have been there, but, I see, many more who prefer to judge others rather than comprehend or learn. Captain Prouse's posts are instructive for those with eyes.

You are correct: punishment (incarceration, loss of job, home, family, friends) doesn't cure addiction - it just makes those who make academic judgements more self-righteous.

Only those who don't know first-hand the path that Captain Prouse and many like him have travelled, permit themselves the luxury of judging others.

There are many addictions. For those who judge alcoholic addiction and behaviour, your comment, " 'I understand you have cancer, but don't you dare bring it to work with you'. ", describes this attitude and is spot on.

Those who haven't had to deal with the serious problems of alcoholic addiction can, ironically, be thankful that they don't understand.

But they should have the grace to remain silent while others who must deal with addiction tell their story. You never know.

PJ2

Airbubba Memory failing? ;)
You're always an active participant in 'pilots and alcohol' threads, and have started some of them.There have also been
- some suspended sentences
- some pilots arrested on suspicion but who turned out not to be over the limit
The total of all the above is very small. The overwhelming majority of pilots behave responsibly and in accordance with the law.

There have also been some pilots who were prosecuted for being over the limit and turned out not to be guilty of the alleged wrongdoing.


Sandy Young I know you have no connection with the aviation industry so you probably don't realise the knowledge that, if caught, you'll lose your job, probably be unemployed for a long time and may never fly again is a very serious consideration.

It sure is!:ok:

Thanks for the list. The Americans somehow seemed to always avoid jail time in the UK prior to this incident.

Little sympathy really, life is about making choices and we have to take responsibility for the choices we make.

Two other issues, what were his colleagues thinking? Either they knew the state he was in and were prepared to cover up for him which in my mind is just as bad or they were oblivious to something that even our half baked airport security personnel spotted.

The other issue is about the passengers, the onces who put their care in his professional hands. They assume the pilot is fit to fly and rely on him to be honest with himself.

6 months prison which will, probably only be three months time served in the end will be a deterrent all round.

I really shouldn't bother, but it's uninformed drivel like this that makes my skin crawl.

It's a commonly held (and incorrect) belief that addiction is a character flaw. It is a medically proven fact that addiction is a disease of the brain. There is no "choice" made to become addicted. Many people can have a snoot full of pints on a Friday night and other than the headache the next morning, be none the worse for wear. For those with an addictive brain, one drink, or one hit of cocaine, or one bet at the craps table, can be enough to set off the addiction. The reasons for some people being more susceptible are not fully known, but in many cases, heredity is involved. Those whose mothers were heavy users of alcohol or drugs during pregnancy (fetal alcohol syndrome) are also more prone to addiction.

Showing up for work under the influence was wrong. Full stop. But that doesn't mean that we can't look beyond society's misplaced need for retribution to look at the whole human involved.

In other words, do some reading, such as the writings of Lyle Prouse that I provided a link to on the first page of this thread. Just maybe you will be enlightened.

J.O.;

The views expressed were so far into dream-land that I actually deleted my response to chrisbl. Glad you took a moment to respond to such blind ignorance and an "every man for himself and the devil take the hindmost" view of one's fellow men. Not much experience or living behind those comments and not much practised thought for others.

Alcohol is woven throughout the fabric of life in the UK, probably the US as well; prohibition is notoriously ineffective.

The drunk who ends up in jail (gaol if you prefer) in the UK is not necessarily free from the temptations of alcohol, as in a recent open prison riot which was set off when the three wardens present on New Years Eve wanted to breathalyse some of the inmates.... It is unlikely that a short term prisoner will benefit from treatment.

The alcoholic serving time in a UK prison is more likely to be approached by adherents of a religion that entirely disapproves of alcohol in any form...as happened to a certain Richard Reid.

Where did I say that he would beat the addiction in jail? Did you not read the part where I mentioned inpatient or outpatient rehab AFTER jail?

Just out of curiosity, imagine the scenario of a pilot in uniform jumpseating to his destination for a flight the next day and, partaken in a light libation and was stopped by security for smelling of alcohol.

I guess it would be against company policy and authority rules but technically he was off duty.

Any ideas??

Jump Seat is technically Additional Crew Member.

Hence all duty rules apply insofar as the company and regulator is concerned.

Yup.
One asian airline years ago got around this slight problem by insisting that crew positioning travel with a FOC ticket and in civvies...and always in first class.
Our adult beverage glasses never got less than half full.
Grub was pretty good, too.

And then...there was FD crew reverse thrust, just after landing.:ok:

.No way.

I accept that it becomes an addiction, but it is a self inflicted injury, you don't 'catch it', like flu'.

Babies aren't born alcoholics.