This is a total non-sense. Sorry, but which serious terrorist would build a bomb and put it on a cargo plane from Yemen? That story stinks!
If you really wanted to hurt modern society, there are so many things to do which are much easier. Just find some local guys that put a bomb in a bag which they deposit/forget/whatever at a train station or similar, have a few of them explode and there you go. But honestly, some unimportant cargo aircraft that nobody cares about (normally)? I am not buying it...

It gets fishier and fishier the more I think about it.

Lead azide compounds will detonate if you drop them a foot or so, they are incredibly sensitive.

Having seen ramp rats around aircraft enough times there is no way it would have not gone off. Whoever put it into the container/pallet either got very lucky, or there is something very odd going on here.

There are no scheduled Cargo flights operating through Yemen. Both packages were flown from Sanaa to Doha in Qatar Airways A320 scheduled passenger flights. "Some unimportant cargo aircraft that nobody cares about". What a load of b****x. A bombed B747F crashing onto a highly populated town/city would be a massive publicity coup for Al Qaeda.

BBC reporting of a 'dry run' in September: BBC News - Parcel bomb plotters 'used dry run', say US officials

A US official has told the BBC that suspect packages from Yemen were intercepted in September, in what may have been a dry run for last week's foiled parcel bomb plot.

And how on Earth would you know the routing? And how would you detonate it?

If you have the technology to make lead azide and PETN, then surely you would use a GPS or barometric device. Not a mobile phone circuit.

I'm still struggling to see the logic in this.

So they were either going to blow a Rabbi's printer up, which is highly unlikely, or try and "down" an aircraft over a city, which also incredibly unlikely with that amount of PETN.

"400 I'm bid."
"Any advance on 400 ?"
"To you, Sir. The gentleman with the mirrored sunglasses and earpiece."
"400 then."
"Going once...."

:ugh:

PETN is not hard to synthesize, I'm surprised anyone would send it through the mail though. I could make kilos of the stuff by 5PM today, I won't because I'm not precluded to that kind of stuff.

But by your logic lead azide was sent there as well? I wouldn't mind making that in a fumehood, under inert conditions, and very cold, but how would someone in the Yemen get hold of that? If it was there then it has come from somewhere.

Quite where that somewhere is is probably now the question.

Also I am not convinced about what exactly was their aim. Detonate it over a city? Not with that amount, it may cause failure of the structure, but I cannot imagine it to be catastrphic.

If "they" are planning a spectacular event, it's going to be found now surely. Plus if you are going to use a high explosive, why not use RDX or something of it's ilk that has a higher chance of causing damage?

No More Parcels by Air from Yemen
 

Now that will bring the Western economies to their knees:}

Mind you it does put a dent in khat shipments.

AQ would get considerably more bang for the buck sending nefarious parcels from inside the Homeland, especially with TSA taking charge of the perimeter of every UPS, DHL and Fedex branch:E

On the one hand ..
 

There was talk some time ago of getting hijackers aboard Frieghters, perhaps this was to test security at a basic level .. that is what I would consider doing placing myself in the mindset of these deluded animals.

That said .. f@x news and the like are little more that the whipping boys of political spin ... take your choice... mine is to turn off the TV and think.

In this particular case they should have known that UPS would be flying the package/s from Dubai to Cologne. Armed with the phone number of the sim card and an air band radio, a member of an AQ cell in Germany could detonate the bomb from a car parked in a strategic position near the airport as the aircraft approached. Not knowing exactly which flight a bomb was on it might have taken several visits before the correct aircraft arrives. Same scenario in the US of A.
This is all conjecture of course.

There is obviously a decent reason why they put the word "terror" into the word "terrorism".

Was it ever intended to actually do anything?

Exactly! :eek:

They would have to know when the aircraft was within cell service. So they'd have to know which approach was being flown.

And even a catastrophic failure would likely just make a big scorch mark on the ground. Chances of hitting a structure are not high.

Maybe everyone is overthinking this. They sent them to a synagogue. Maybe they wanted to blow up the synagogue.

Maybe, but why send the bombs half way round to world when they could be assembled locally?

That requires two basic assumptions:
a) there are local terrorists in the US and
b) there is a concerted effort between Yemen and US-based terrorists.

I do believe a lot of people are over-thinking this.
Most likely simply a bunch of nutcases with a half-assed 'plan' with very little chance of success.

Overthinking it maybe, but possibly in the other sense that the objective was merely

a) to reignite media attention to "the big bad guys hiding in caves"

b) cause disruption & delay (whether to travel of passengers or in this case cargo)

Only a few weeks til Christmas, when millions of extra packages enter the system. Wouldn't it be sad for all those kiddies if because of extra security implemented, ther presents were late and get there in January.

Ok so maybe I'm being a bit sarcastic but you get my point. Death & injury aren't the only desired results of "terrorism".

And I wonder yoo if the only point of this was to further complicate the inconvenience of air travel by a knock-on effect from altered security screening. It was cargo aircraft but look how the TSA now has "new" procedures... in AIRPORTS. :ugh:

consider ...
 

In the past couple of weeks we had a senior official at BA suggesting that security measures were inappropiate, Virgin complaining that departure taxes were about to double on certain routes .... and now ? hey guess what ... toner cartridges.

There is a parallel industry to our own, a parasite that has to justify it's existance... join the dots.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010...ail-Bombs.html

I see from the URL these mail bombs are in the 'Politics' section of the paper.

These guys have years of experience building bombs with cell phone ringer circuits, looks like the timer function was used to initiate the detonation instead of a phone call. You might not know which plane the bomb is on but you can guess it will be airborne say, 18 hours after initial departure for a next day international delivery or 36 hours for a two day delivery. Especially if you've checked the timing with a dry run in September. Put in the tracking number for your Apple Store iPhone and you get the exact routing and times as FedEx or UPS bring your purchase around the world.

Bombing an airplane with a timer detonator is nothing new, remember the Sikh bombings within an hour of each other in 1985?

In a former life, I also .. legitimately built bombs, I built legitimately, things that look like bombs ... this is .. well .. a news story for whatever aim ... and if the aim was to bring down aircraft rather than stir up the media, we would have been looking at a different picture imho.

I don't think they care where and when.

Well my cheapo phone will allow me to set a time an date for the alarm

Its just the fact that they have demonstrated that can get these items on board an aircraft, especially at this time of the year.

proving what to whom ? that people respond to press stories ? placed by whoever puts them there for whatever reason ? ... yes case proven.

For pity's sake!

A UPS Jumbo just crashed after taking off from a ME location.

Is nobody, even on here, putting two and two together?

hey Barbie ..
 

go read the thread... read the news, look at the precursors for this event .. security industry threatened ? security suddenly needed in additional role... to save us all from what the media is reporting, and therefore fact.

And my cheapo phone will as well, and amazingly enough it will do it without a SIM in it.

If the stories in the media are to be believed, it was an electronic device attached to a SIM, so I'm not believing for one minute that it would be used as a timer, there are far easier ways to make a timer.

Suspect parcel for Italy PM catches fire at airport

Suspect parcel for Italy PM catches fire at airport - Yahoo! News

Hi,

Methink Santa is early with gifts this year :)
Commercial pressure :confused:

hetfield, jcjeant,
Doesn't really sound related, or copycat....
Not in the least because the letter bombs as such obviously were functional....
Maybe just having been pre-empted by AQ ruined their scheme.

CJ

Hetfeld, you have hit on something. It must be far more simple to create a fire than detonate a high explosive with accuracy.

So why stick a very dodgy device onboard a cargo aircraft with an incredibly sensitive detonator when incendiary devices will cause as much havoc, can be externally controlled with no outside intervention, and are easier to make.

France's Interior Minister Brice Hortefeux says that one of the two parcel bombs intercepted last week after being sent from Yemen was defused 17 minutes before it was due to go off.

Mr Hortefeux was speaking to France-2 television but did not reveal his source for the information.

The two bombs were sent via air freight to the US but intercepted in Dubai and the UK and defused.

Investigators have focused on a Yemen-based al-Qaeda offshoot

BBC News - Yemen parcel bomb 'was 17 minutes from exploding'

Yep, these explosives experts who say a phone wouldn't be used as a timer might want to backpedal and revise their stories. Plus, as we know from the movies, the bomb always has a big display with a countdown timer, right?;)

Still, the possibility of using a phone inflight to remotely activate a bomb is being reconsidered:

Aircraft bomb finds may spell end for in-flight Wi-Fi - tech - 02 November 2010 - New Scientist

As the story points out, getting the phone to ring for a call or text is enough for the bad guys to start a detonation.

Paper Tiger offers this piece :
You assert, then, there are NO local terrorists in the U.S. ?
Have you ever heard of U.S. Army Major Nidal Hassan ??

Also, don't worry yourself about badguys obtaining the latest, or even outdated MANPADS and sighting in on arrival/departure corridors at any random busy airport. They wouldn't even need any loaded toners aboard target aircraft.

UPS/Pilots Sign Agreements on Safety and Security
 

UPS/Pilots Sign Agreements on Safety and Security -- LOUISVILLE, Ky., Nov. 4, 2010 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ --

UPS/Pilots Sign Agreements on Safety and Security


LOUISVILLE, Ky., Nov. 4, 2010 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- United Parcel Service and the Independent Pilots Association, the collective bargaining unit for its 2,800 pilots, today signed a memorandum of understanding that establishes joint UPS/IPA Safety and Security Task Forces. Both will be made up of six members, three named by each party.
"This agreement reaffirms our common objective of efficiently and effectively operating the UPS airline with safety and security as our twin priorities and guiding principles. We appreciate the company efforts in reaching this agreement," said IPA President Captain Robert Thrush.
The Safety Task Force will address the following issues: Emergency Vision Assurance System (EVAS); full face oxygen masks; comprehensive fire mitigation and suppression systems; checklists procedures for smoke and fire; and the carriage of lithium batteries and other fire/smoke hazards.
"UPS and IPA acknowledge that the air cargo/express package industry faces unique threats in the era of global terrorism. We also recognize the key role our pilots can play in the mitigation and management of these threats both from the flight deck and by working together to improve cargo security and screening," said Captain Thrush.
The Security Task Force will address the following issues: communication and coordination within/between UPS, affected crewmembers, and the IPA; air cargo security procedures; threat procedures; improved access to security directives; perimeter security; and background checks for those who have access to UPS aircraft.
SOURCE Independent Pilots Association
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More details emerge from the alleged perps in an online religious magazine called 'Inspire' (motto on the cover: "...And Inspire The Believers"):

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/21/wo.../21parcel.html

I'm confused?

Leverage for what, cheaper mobile phones and toner cartridges? Cheaper airfreight?

This all sounds like BS to me.

Leverage
 

The leverage they speak of is the fact that they can spend a tiny amount of money on a tactic that makes us spend millions chasing our tails. The point now seems to be not killing infidels, but making infidels look silly while they waste money on pointless "preventive measures".

This I think is what Osama bin Laden referred to when he explained, not long after the 9-11 event, how Al Qaeda had exceeded beyond expectations with their attack.

That point has been lost on Government officials in the US since, I think, around 9-12-01. :p

The only upside I have seen to all of this is that the U.S. Coast Guard moved out from under D.o.T. and ended up with an improved funding stream to perform their mission ... which had been sadly underfunded for ages. Sadly, this meant creating DHS, which is a core wrong response to what happened on 9-11.

Oh well, what can one expect from a government? Self licking ice cream cones, mostly.

When can I go back to being able to clip my nails whilst airborne? The belt that I wear around my waist is a far deadlier weapon, in my hands, than nail clippers.