Of course we now have 411A today:

411A, I suggest you converse with the Pprune Mods. Apparently someone has hacked your login since surely you couldn't contradict yourself so badly within 24 hours. It's that or i suggest we merge this thread with the Age 70 discussion regarding the early signs of dementia. :E

No need, because, the relevant facts speak for themselves.

With the BA777 under discussion, it was not TACA, nor Iberia, nor (any other) airline...it was, British Airways, that did the deed.
With, BA pilots at the helm.

NO surprise, certainly.:{

WhatsaLizad?
 

Spot on ! :ok:

411A that is just plain idiocy. Of course BA don't allow intersection take offs with no perfomance figures for them! Do you ever operate out of Heathrow? They nowadays ask if you can accept intersection take offs.
It's a well used procedure and something all crews are well used to deal with.

What has happened here is Human Error. I cannot see for the life of me where BAs procedures have caused this incident.
BA rams it home to us not to get distracted whilst manoeuvring on the ground.
Did they **** up? Yes
Were there circumstances surrounding the incident that made it more likely to happen?
Abso-bloody-lutely.
Has this got anything to do with BA ops? No (Several US operators make the same mistake at that airport on countless occasions)

I would love to meet the BA mate who cranked 411A's handle:eek:

Whoever you were, not so hard next time please.

As for your reference to the Cali accident being gross negligence - sorry fella, still don't see it. A massive loss of SA and the Cmdr got fixated on a beacon (IIRC and I am not going to re-read the report so I stand to be corrected) yes, but to pin that mantle on them, when once again they did not realise the true extent of their situation - to their ultimate cost, is wrong.

Be very careful of tagging dead guys (and COMPETENT BA pilots) with that. And if you want to know where it leads to read this - The Campaign for Justice for the Pilots of ZD576

PS Having just Googled a definition of Gross negligence legal definition of Gross negligence. Gross negligence synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary. I suggest you get your head out of your :ooh:

Without a doubt.

I certainly can, namely, this 'role reversal' complete and utter nonsense, whilst on the ground, taxiing for departure.
It set up this crew up for an incident, no doubt about it.

But this crew certainly did, and I expect for the reason I mentioned above, a daft BA 'role reversal' procedure, whilst taxiing.
This type of scenario is an easy way for crews to get distracted, whilst maneuvering on the tarmac, no doubt about it.

We certainly agree.

Ok, let us presume that this statement is correct.

Then, how do you explain the many other airlines that operate at this airport, who do not make these same mistakes?
Could it be that these other air carriers have slightly better situational awareness, due to better operating procedures, whilst on the ground?
I would speculate...absolutely.

I will repeat, IF this incident had been done by any other than a large well established European air carrier, many commentators here would be all over said airline, like flys on a honey pot, denouncing their daft operational procedures, and complete lack of a safety culture.

Well, the shoe is on the other foot, now...and many of these same folks can only make lame excuses for the airline in question.

Sorry, it doesn't wash.

Most people on here, and elsewhere, put this down as a Human Factors incident. It's nothing at all to do with procedures - regardless of how your airline operates, FO's taxying, starting engines, or not. Hey, if that's how you want to operate, knock yourself out!

And, can we put the intersection business to bed too? Either it can be done, or can't, just as reduced thrust take offs can be done, and flights taking off without their fuel tanks full.

Jeez, is anyone else bored of this bloke?

Yes, bored of him about 10 pages ago. :rolleyes:

You people are picking on one of your own. I don't care where he domiciles, no American would ever write "whilst," particularly four times in the same post, any more than a Yank would say "jolly good." Nor have I ever heard an American refer to a "honey pot."

411a calling other Pilots arrogant is a little bit of a stretch.


You really are the personification of the word old chap, but more than that, your opinions on everyones faults or procedures change from day to day.


You do seem a little confused but in a pattern that seems to repeat itself.


What's the word for it again, oh yes, here it is :



'Schizophrenia ( or ) is a mental disorder characterized by abnormalities in the perception or expression of reality. It most commonly manifests as auditory hallucinations, paranoid or bizarre delusions, or disorganized speech and thinking with significant social or occupational dysfunction. ...'



It's not too late to get help !

Quality Assurance
 

I believe every company worth to mention has a quality assurance programme. The programme we run requires us to audit our suppliers and if they are not up the scratch we cannot employ their services.

In this case airport being the supplier of BA how that supplier can be allowed to operate with deficient marking of taxiways ? Any input please.