Crosswind landing techniques
 

Oh come guys! We are meant to be professionals

You are flying a multimillion $ piece of tin full of people, you have a responsibility to the pax, company and yourself to be fully conversant with ALL the recommend techniques of how to do a xwind landing upto and including the limit.

If you are not you should get out of the flight deck and take up gardening.


Both Airbus and B777 are fly by wire not cable therefore there is no control input lag, as a result in my experience the 777 is the best and most responsive of any commercial aircraft in a crosswind I have ever flown.

Applying crossed controls to counter a rudder input is not unstabilising an approach, its Effect of Controls 1 for heavens sake!

Let remember we are meant to be pilots not just button pushers.

rant over and the soap box is back in the cupboard!

I couldn't agree more... Just highlighting the FCOM for the subject of this thread:ok:

Yup...and been this way since the 707 days.
Nothing new, perfectly acceptable.

For ULH pilots who get only three or four landings a month, (most of them not crosswind), is that ego or common sense talking?

Ego Vs Professional Responsibility
 

Well speaking for myself, the flight deck of a wide body aircraft (or any other vehicle for that matter) is THE ONE place where ego has absolutely no place.

My post stated that you should, as a matter of professional responsibility, be fully conversant with all the recommended techniques and use the most appropriate one depending on the circumstances in which you find yourself.

As to ULR flying and maintaining competence/proficiency. In Ek we do 1 or 2 a month so it should not be a problem. However, I agree that if you do nothing but ULR stuff maintaining proficiency is not easy hence being familiar with all the various techniques, or tell someone and get into the sim, or be a grown up and bid, if possible, for less ULR flights thus taking responsibility for your own competence.

It is not brain surgery after all.

Did any other aircraft have the same problem landing that day?.

Where is just forward of the centerline?
It's under the radome with the GS antenna. (On the 737) and most others I'd hazard a guess.

18 kt crosswind. Big deal.

Left crosswind. They took out the left runway lights. No 'downwind' drfit issue.

Crosswind landing technique isn't important if you don't land near the centerline.

Or better, why could the crew not muster the skills and proficiency required to tackle a crosswind landing:hmm:?

As a light piston single and occasional light twin driver, I always try to land with the upwind wheel first, wing low and nose pointing straight down the runway - ie no crab and no drift and hence no sideloading on the landing gear.

Videos of big jets landing with a crab/drift always surprise me as the forces that seem to be imposed on the landing gear look huge/potentially damaging.

Are big jets landed this way because a single gear cannot handle all of the weight on landing or is there a risk of one of the engine pods striking the ground or some other reason?

Interested to know.

Engine pods striking the ground is a big problem on such aircraft as the 747. This makes the wing-down technique quite tricky.

On the other hand, the DC-10 was a brilliant wing-down aeroplane. If you look at the geometry, you would never be able to scrape a pod (you would always get the wingtip first).

Not all aircraft manufacturers allow for the "crabbed landing technique" because of the side loads imposed on the landing gear.

Now that is a fascinating statement.

Can you tell us more please?

Well MD11 would be one type I´m absolutely sure of (and have experienced) that hates crabby landings!

And the Scarebus is not meant to be landed without decrabbing to a certain extent either as quoted from the OM-B before.

Somebody just messed up the landing during the EY-incident - nothing more, nothing less. The Xwind certainly sound do-able on the size of an A345.

But c´mon - AUH-JFK! - is near the red line.

There, but for the grace of God...

Agree with WILEY, I'm also a 773 driver, The Chinese Landing "One wing low" is the way to go!!

Have to agree White Knight

Had several max wind landings in AKL on the 345, looks a little hairy lining up on the edge lights. I cheat a little and begin the de-crab just prior to the flare with slower rudder inputs, needs a little more lateral attention but works well and the aircraft is in the level attitude on touchdown.

Either way immediatly prior to or in the flare hasn't made a huge difference and neither have strong gusts during the flare, just need to be ready with control inputs if needed.

This isn't rocket science, what works for one may type not necesarily work for another.

Stay safe

Dooner:ok:

Before the 31 knot limit for the crabbed technique came in, I've landed a 772 in a 40 kt crosswind at LHR using the crossed control technique - and when I was very, very new on type. (It was my initial check flight after my conversion.)

The aeroplane went on as if on a rail (thanks more to Mr Boeing's designers than anything I did, I suspect), and we certainly didn't get a pod scrape. As I mentioned in my earlier post, it's how the autopilot does it and it maintains a totally stable attitude (and perhaps just as important, a stable track) right to touchdown.

Thanks to the track line in the compass at the bottom of the PFD, you can even finesse the amount of rudder required to get the aircraft tracking exactly on runway heading, so it doesn't matter if you don't get the flare/touchdown absolutely nailed - the aircraft isn't going through (what can be a quite large) gyration as you kick it straight at the last minute and therefore, isn't heading off for the side of the runway at a rapid rate of knots if you float a little longer than is ideal.

777 drivers, next time you do a sim. ride, ask the instructor to wind in a 30kt (or more) crosswind and take a look at how the autopilot handles the final 300 or 400 feet. Then try manually flying an approach and use the same technique as the autopilot. I believe you'll become a convert.

The only reason I can see for someone using the 'kick it straight in the flare' technique in a 777 is ego, because you think you're skilled enough to do it. Like those who lambasted me in posts above, you quite possibly are - but too many FO's (and Captains on multi crew ULR flights) I've seen try it aren't so skilled and turn what could be a no brainer, non event crosswind landing into something approaching those movie clips we've all seen on YouTube.

If I remember correctly, Airbus does not recommend x-controls. As per the FCTM
"crabbed approach wings level" should be the technique used.

I have used both and Boeing a/c (never flown B777) respond well to x-control, Airbus not so much.

My two cents worth

Assy

Doing the cross control during a flare in a Boeing is quite intuitive. The Airbus I understand adds more bank holding the control off neutral so would be a relearning for a Boeing pilot. We always hold the aileron into the wind and the rudder keeps us straight. Kind of like all of the aircraft in the past 107 years.

I agree with alwayzinit.. A 21 kt crosswind should not be an issue for any professional pilot in any larger aircraft. Period!! The title of this thread is very misleading as it really had nothing to do with JFK. Crosswind landings are a fact of life in our business no matter what type of plane you fly. Quit trying to blame everyone else. Unless there was a mechanical issue, these guys just simply screwed up. End of conversation. If you can't handle the airplane get the :mad: out of the cockpit!!