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MK 74F down in PHC?
Just heard this one. Hope it turns out alright.
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Have also heard this rumour. Understand 15 pax onboard, mostly Europeans.
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Hey Cargo Rat, what's up??
You are correct about MK in PHC, that's two tallies, however unsure about severity yet. |
Come on, Al Capone - don't keep us in suspense - what happened with the aircraft? With the Ghana DCA now pull their flag of convenience AOC? :rolleyes: Or will the CAA here finally ground their aircraft due to lack of operational oversight and control?
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Understand that aircraft was 9G-MKI. Landed short at Port Harcourt. Currently 12 survivors.
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Apparently there is now one fatality. Not sure whether crew or pax. Aircraft is a total loss. MK are based in UK are they not?
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Hartfield, East Sussex. UK.
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MK Airlines, Ltd (formerly MK Aircargo Ltd) Landhurst, Hartfield, East Sussex TN7 4DL, (1892) 77 00 11 Email: [email protected]
9G-MKI, B74-246F (SCD) s/n 22063/432 (1980)ex N741SJ (Southern Air) ex JA8144 (JAL). |
Guv, I hope I'm wrong but is there a bit of gloating in your tone?
The total loss of a B747 with fatalities is bad news for the whole industry right now. It means more crappy publicity we don't need and if, as you suggest, MK lose their AOC then it's more pilots out of work. Where's your upside? |
CNN Report total 7 crew,two dead and five injured.
Guv, show some respect please, for once! |
Following quote from REUTERS:
>>>>>> RPT-Two killed as cargo plane crashes in Nigeria PORT HARCOURT, Nigeria, Nov 27 (Reuters) - A Boeing 747 cargo plane crashed near the southeastern Nigerian city of Port Harcourt on Tuesday, killing two crew members and wounding five, airport officials said. They said the plane crashed in the bush as it approached to land, but details of the accident and ownership of the aircraft or its origin were not immediately available. The airport officials said the crew appeared to be foreign but their nationalities could not be established immediately. One of the dead had been burned beyond recognition but it was not immediately clear to what extent the plane itself was damaged. Airport workers said there had been no sign of an explosion after the plane came down in clear weather. They said Nigerian Aviation Minister Kema Chikwe had rushed to the city clinic where the injured crew had been taken but it was not clear if she had flown to Port Harcourt after the crash. Port Harcourt is the capital of Nigeria´s oil and gas industry and hub of massive new projects, including a multi-billion dollar liquefied natural gas complex <<<<<<<<<<<< |
Really sad days for aviation :(
One fatality in MK Airlines 747-200F crash in Nigeria London (27Nov01, 13:21 GMT, 152 words) A Boeing 747-200 freighter operated by UK cargo carrier MK Airlines has crashed on landing at Port Harcourt in Nigeria, killing one of the 13 people on board. The Pratt & Whitney JT9D-powered 747-200F was en-route from Luxembourg to the Nigerian city, located south east of Lagos, when the accident occurred. A spokesman for MK Airlines, which specialises in African operations, says: “We’re still trying to establish what happened. The aircraft crashed on landing at Port Harcourt at 02:00 this morning.” He says that one of the 13 people on board the cargo flight died in the accident. The aircraft is a total loss. MK Airlines has been leasing the 21-year old aircraft, registered 9G-MKI, since 1999. It is owned by Finova Capital Corporation and was formerly operated by Japan Airlines. The 747-200F was one of a pair operated by MK Airlines, which also has a fleet of six McDonnell Douglas DC-8s. Source: Air Transport Intelligence news |
Good grief. I saw -MKI on the ramp yesterday lunchtime.
I heard via my original source that one of the survivors was on the way to the UK in an air ambulance. My condolences to all. |
Realy sad news. Mike Kruger is a really pleasant guy. Not one of the ususal intolerable egos you often find at the top of an airline.
Condolences to him and to all at his company especialy those grieving tonight. Guvnor - shame on you. |
I know that this will be unpopular, but it needs to be said. First, though, I would like to express sympathy for those directly involved - and of course the families of those killed.
My information from Nigeria is that initial findings are that the aircraft ran out of fuel. MK has had considerably more than their statistical share of accidents and incidents - out of a total fleet of 12 aircraft operated, since 1992 they have lost two DC8s and have had at least one serious incident with their B747s (where ballast shifted because it was not properly secured, seriouly damaging the cargo hold and centre fuel tank). They are an operation that is owned (and largely staffed) by Zimbabweans - many of whom are here illegally, without work permits or UK passports, working at MSE and at the company's 'technical base' in Sussex. They have no genuine operational infrastructure in Ghana, yet operate under a Ghana AOC. They are domiciled and openly headquartered in the UK yet the CAA is powerless to force them to apply for a UK AOC (despite many 'nudges' from the Belgrano). They benefit from a lack of operational and safety oversight which allows them to cut costs and - more importantly - cut corners. This, in turn, has allowed them to undercut EU airlines such as Cargo Lion, forcing them out of business. They are, in short, the sort of dangerous flag of convenience pirate operator that Maggie Oldham used to get so wound up about. This is not the first time that this company's poor standards have cost lives. And, unless the CAA/DTLR does something about them, nor will it be the last. Over the last twelve months, there have been a number of threads about this company - some of which, sadly, have been very prophetic. The chances are, you'll be sharing the skies with these aircraft. How safe do you feel? [ 27 November 2001: Message edited by: The Guvnor ] |
"Shame on Guv" - WHY? Everything he's posted has been informative and respectful. Why does every thread have to degenerate because a small group insist on hijacking the topic and accuse Guv of god knows what? There's been a terrible accident in PHC and even this it appears is being used as a pretext for some petty vendetta. Show some respect. Is this how all airline pilots behave? No wonder the industry is f***ed.
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Jesus "The Guvnor", you've got your knickers in a fine twist. Why on earth do you know so much about them. Did they give you the sticky finger once or is it just plain poking your nose around??
Looking for more details on the crew - any have more info? |
this is not the kind of news we need to be reading right now. As there have been varying reports about POB etc lets hope that the fatality bit is also bollocks. In any case, I am thinking of you, those directly affected.
Oh yes, Guv, wot a nob! |
Condolences to all concerned with regards to this tragedy.
Although the Guvnor’s comments might be a little ill timed, he is quite correct. If you are not convinced just ask any ex Tradewinds or Anglo Cargo employee what happens when you have a weak DT, This department allows this sort of operation to flourish in the UK at the expense of a proper UK based AOC operation. MK is not the only UK cargo operation that is based in the UK that uses foreign registed a/c and foreign crews. I can think of another cargo operation, based at LGW. |
Of the 15 aircraft MK Airlines were due to have in their fleet over the last 10 years, 3 were not delivered, which leaves a fleet of 12 aircraft.
After today's accident, 3 of those aircraft have been written off (a DC-8 in 1992, a DC-8 in 1996, and the 747 today). All 3 writeoffs were due to crashes; one in Kanos, and two in Port Harcourt. There's something terribly wrong when 1/4 of an airline's fleet has been lost in crashes. Ill-timed or not, it needs to be said. |
Loc-Out you're not thinking of a certain operator which also has a maintenance base at MSE and which dunks aircraft in Lake Victoria - as well as other spots around the world - I'm sure ChrisKSDF can provide the details.
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Sure are!!
:D :D :D [ 27 November 2001: Message edited by: Loc-out ] |
My condolances go to the family of the victim and to MK- Airlines.
From some of the posts it is clear that you are quite pleased that MK has been hurt. Well let me tell you something. When you have your own airline operating not some fantasy crap that is posted on the internet you might have some credibility. You surely can talk the talk but aboviously cannot walk the walk. MK has been operating in UK and EU but is not an EU airline. Guess some of us find it hard to accept that somebody from Africa can come and operate a fairly succesfull airline without a wonderful CAA AOC that has been issued by some godforsaken paperpusher. At the same token you find it appropriate for you to build your hours, work or even run an airline in those Foreign non EU countries that give an opportunity. Namely I have seen British as well as other European pilots flying and people in Zimbabve, RSA, Brunei, UAE... You name it. Death brings the vultures out and I seem them hanging around in increasing numbers. A person got killed and an aircraft was lost. You didn't even have the decency to wait a few minutes before starting your badmouthing campaing... DISGUSTING. A miserable but unfortunately noisy minority on this wonderful website seem to be using it to advance their own goals. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: |
By all means, JJFlyer, let's just pretend that MK Airlines has never had any problems because they lost an aircraft today. Let's not "badmouth" them because they've crashed 1/4 their fleet in nine years. And for God's sake, let's not mention that this accident looks to have happened because the plane ran out of fuel.
After all, mentioning that would be disrespectful to some (although I'm not exactly sure who). Giving such information would be an honest and accurate appraisal of the airline, but apparently those aren't appreciated by some. Get over yourself. [ 27 November 2001: Message edited by: ChrisKSDF ] |
MK have an experienced mix of pilots, ex military, ex airline etc and fly into places many other operators fear to tread, carrying everything from grapes to disaster relief supplies...the classic case of "anywhere, anytime".
I have been sat on the freight apron at the "delightful" Lagos Mohammed Murtalla airport with a bunch of pilots and engineers for close on 12 hours in the glaring heat trying to resurrect a sick 1900 and been watched disdainfully by a European operator from their nice, airconditioned, well stocked, "purple lettered" 757. In taxies MK's 747 and the crew hop out and bring us a case of bottled mineral water, bags of fruit and a tray of sandwiches, and invite us to cool off in their fridgelike cabin. I guess not everyone has lost the "spirit" of aviation, and I don't find it too surprising that many of those who do still have it are either from, or work in Africa. This is a place where you look out for each other, generally regardless of the writing on the side of your aircraft. And as for being "foreigners" over here, a lot of pilots of European origin are "over there", indeed often get their first break there with regards to hours and experience, before returning to the UK etc for that coveted airline job. It is yet another tragedy in aviation, and regardless of what people think of the operator, surely it is bad taste to forward anything other than condolences in this instance? May they only get stronger, and move on from this unfortunate accident. |
So what was the outcome of the DETR investigation last year that "Vauxhall Cross"
posted in the African Aviation forum? |
Mr Chris.
I did not want to comment the problems MK has had. I do not think it is my place to do so. You on the other hand have such a vast and varied experience as a pilot and aviation expert that it is just natural for you to assume this role. [ 28 November 2001: Message edited by: JJflyer ] |
You don't need experience as a pilot to take note when an airline has lost 1/4 their fleet in crashes, or to notice that a particular airline operates from one country, yet registers their assets (including aircraft) in another country to avoid regulations that like companies are forced to comply with.
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JJFlyer - I'm surprised at you. The fact is, as ChrisKSDF pointed out, this is far from the first incident that they have had. Nor is it the case that they have written off three aircraft over say a 40 year period - as would be the case with a quality operator such as British Airways. No - these cowboys have had three crashes (can't remember off hand how many were fatals, including this one) in nine years!
Statistically, this makes them one of the most dangerous airlines in the world. (Chris, can you trawl your databases and see if you can come up with any other airline - of a comparable size - (a) which has had as many incidents in the last 10 years; and (b) has lost 25% of its fleet in the same timescale?) This operation prompts more than a few questions, starting with: - Nice people they may be, but why are they not based in their home country of Zimbabwe? - Why don't they have a proper operational set up in Ghana - and why isn't the management and control centred there rather than Sussex? - Why isn't the Ghana Civil Aviation Authority providing proper operational and safety oversight? This incident should result in Ghana being downgraded to Category 2 unless prompt action is taken against MK. - Why is the DTLR allowing them to operate from the UK (against CAA advice, I understand) to the detriment of other UK and EU carriers? If they want to be based here, fine. But let them apply for a CAA Air Operator's Certificate and Operators Licence and abide by the UK rules - same as the rest of us have to! - why are they being allowed to flout UK immigration and employment laws by employing foreign nationals (to the detriment of EU citizens) in the UK without visas, work permits or EU passports? - why is the company's senior management permitted overrule its crews when it comes to operational matters; including the carriage of fuel over cargo; operations in excess of runway, structural or other limits; extended duty times; and operations into airports in unsafe conditions? There's another thread on here, entitled "Management and Pilots SHould Read This". Towards the bottom of this page you'll see a question posed by Huck. MK's answer would be diametrically opposed to the one that I gave. If this aircraft had come down in Margate or Crawley - especially considering that it ran out of fuel - this thread would have been close on its 100 post limit already. So why isn't there more condemnation of their operation? The chances are that next time - and if this company is allowed to continue operating in the UK there will be a next time - that just might happen. Despite what some might think, this is not a case of European operators bashing an African one because they are more succesful. This is a safety issue which affects us all - much as some of us think otherwise, these regulations are in place for a reason: to protect those operating the aircraft and those on the ground. It's about an operator that has effectively torn up the rule book because they are operating off a mickey mouse flag of convenience without any operational or safety oversight - which means that they cut every corner they can to save money to undercut European operators and put people like you out of work. They were banned from operating to Iceland - which is why they had to set up a 'proper' structure there - if the Icelanders have the guts to take a stance on them, why don't the British? If the DTLR lets them keep operating - how many more people are they going to kill? And will their next crash be in the centre of a UK town? It's as simple as that. |
From the Nigerian press:
Briton dies, four others wounded as plane crashes in Port Harcourt From Joseph Ollor Obari, Kelvin Ebiri (Port Harcourt) and Tunji Oketunbi (Lagos) RESIDENTS of Ipo village, about 700 meters from the Port Harcourt International Airport in the early hours of yesterday, woke up shocked as a Boeing 747 cargo aircraft belonging to M.K. Airlines swirled and crashed in their area, killing a British engineer on board and wounding four of the other 12-member British and American crew. Aviation Minister Kema Chikwe who visited the site yesterday, said the cause of the crash which occurred at about 1.56 a.m. was yet unknown. The aircraft had left Luxembourg for Johannesburg in South Africa via Port Harcourt. Airport sources said that the plane, which had but two minutes to land, suddenly lost contact with the control tower. Chikwe who was visibly shocked by the extent of the wreckage, said the managing director of the National Airways Management Authority (NAMA) called at 4 am. to inform her of the incident. "I had just woken up and I asked the immediate questions on human lives and, what the situation was, whether all our equipment was functioning, because I came here not too long ago to inspect all the facilities. The equipment were all functional, so we ruled out the possibility of equipment failure," she said. The minister emphasised that there was light at the airport as the generator was in good condition and the airport operation had remained uninterrupted. On her arrival in Port Harcourt, the minister drove straight to the Intel Clinic to ascertain the condition of the survivors of the crash. Of what she saw at the clinic, she said: "For a layman, any injury is serious. I saw blood and people lying down, some looking more critical than others, but I am told adequate arrangement was being made to send an air ambulance to fly them to Zurich, because they are foreigners." Asked if the victims were able to describe what happened to them, she said: "They were all in a state of shock and confusion and I did not think I should even ask such question. A plane crash is not a car crash. It is something that is very technical and is best handled by professionals. So the most they could do was to describe their experience, but they could not determine the cause of the crash. "It is only when Airport Investigation Bureau complete their work then we can have a clue of what actually happened. I don't think at this stage anybody can attribute this to any specific cause." She said it was sheer miracle that the cockpit severed from the fuselage, a major factor in the survival of the rest of the crew. "There is a miracle here, even the separation is like God on His own separated the aircraft. You can see where the passengers were was intact. They were in the upper deck and it was only the engineer that was down that died. It's amazing that they were secured where they were. There was no fire onthat side. They would have all died," she added. She promised that the airport clinic would be upgraded to cope with emergencies like this in the future. At the site, the wreckage still smouldered. Only part of the name could be discerned from the severed parts while there was nothing left of the aircraft registration number. Accident investigators and officials from the Federal Ministry of Aviation left Lagos yesterday for Port Harcourt to probe the crash. Although there was no official statement from the Nigerian Civil Aviation Authority (NCAA), information gathered in Lagos indicated the aircraft was operated by Accra-based M.K. Airlines on behalf of a Nigerian operator. A similar accident involving an aircraft belonging to the same operator occurred on approach to landing at the Port Harcourt airport about four years ago. No official statement was issued by the airline yesterday. |
Just a wee bit curious here Guv me ol' mate, how can an aircraft that supposedly "ran out of fuel" BURN post impact?
There simply isn't enough hydraulic fluid to get things really going, but you are as you claim the Guvnor and all knowing so we shall once again stand aside as you belittle yet another airline, its owner, and employees that actually GOT EFFIN' PLANES IN THE AIR as opposed to some pipe smokin' dream in PIK. My sympathies to those involved, Noone ever likes to see one go down. Lak :D [ 28 November 2001: Message edited by: LimeyAK ] |
I'm disappointed folks. This is neither the time nor the place for a spot of MK bashing.
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The only one in this post that said something sensible about this crash seems to be Kema Chikme, the Nigerian Aviation Minister...
Bashing the airline before the corpses are burried is not my cup of tea. My sincere condoleances to the familly of the engineer and my thoughts to those injured. |
LimeyAK - are you sure you fly a 747 as you claim? If so you'd know that there's a significant amount of unusable fuel - and plenty of other combustible material - on board an aircraft. Even the skin burns once the temperature is high enough.
=== According to the Foreign Office, the person that was killed was not British. This from the Telegraph: Jet crash Britons recover from ordeal Four Britons who survived a jumbo jet crash in Nigeria are recovering from their ordeal. One crew member was killed when the Boeing 747 came down near the airport at Port Harcourt, in the south-east of the country. The cargo plane, chartered by Panalpina World Trans Limited freight company, was flying to South America from Luxembourg. It tried to land in Nigeria to drop off supplies for local oil operations, state-run radio said, but crashed on the approach, near Igbo village. The Foreign Office denied reports that a British engineer had died of injuries from the crash, which left six of the 13 crew needing treatment in a local hospital for serious wounds. A spokeswoman said: "There were four Britons on board but no British fatalities. We have no details of any injuries. "They were on board an MK Airlines Boeing 747 which crashed on approach to Port Harcourt international airport, in south-east Nigeria." MK Airlines had told the Foreign Office there was one fatality and it was not British. "All the families of the crew members on board the flight have been notified," the spokeswoman added. "The four British men were crew members. Their families have been informed and the airline has organised for the crew to be flown out of Nigeria as soon as possible." |
Guvnor - what do you think you are doing?
One of your earlier foaming posts in this string lists a whole bunch of actions for a whole bunch of different agencies to take against MK. Breaking News Guv - there has been no formal investigation yet!! If you were the all-knowing Omnipotent Smart Arse that you like to project yourself as you would understand that actions flow from a thorough investigation of the fact and not from half-baked drivel propagated by some wannabee dreamer. Keep your ill-timed remarks to yourself. Show some repsect for those that are grieving and give all the rest of us a well-earned rest from your utterly pointless rantings. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: |
Breaking News, PowerRanger - this company has apparently been under invesrigation for a number of safety breaches for some time.
It's lost 25% of its fleet due to crashes in nine years. It operates under a flag of convenience, without proper safety or operational oversight. It refuses to apply for a UK AOC or abide by UK rules regarding safety and operational strictures - despite 'requests' from the CAA. These are facts. This company has directly and indirectly caused the loss of peoples' jobs and lives. Why is it that you think that calls for urgent action to be taken to prevent such events happening again should be brushed under the carpet? |
We're all a bit quick to jump on MK aren't we. All that's known at the minute is that they have lost a 747 after it apparently undershot on approach to PHC at night - we know nothing else at the moment.
And, so what if they have now lost three aircraft in nine years. This by itself may or may not be significant. Numbers alone are not necessarily an indication of poor safety. What were the causes of the accidents, was their any failing by the airline and if so has it learnt from these and so on. MK's previous two accidents were also undershoots in darkness and were both during non-precision approaches, one at Kano (VOR approach) and one at PHC (also a VOR approach plus no DME). I wonder what kind of approach yesterdays was. Am I right in thinking that the the glide slope at Kano is shallow (2deg??) or am I right off the wall. What's the glide slope at PHC. For AirDisaster.com's sake I might mention that non precission approaches have been shown to be many times less safe than full ILS approaches and having a shallow glide path can also give problems. Maybe AirDisaster.com should also consider the differences in infrastructure, landing aids etc between Africa and North America/Europe before he prenounces on safety. His view may be valid but basing it just on counting numbers is not enough. |
Guvnor please point out where I said that things should be 'brushed under the carpet'? :confused:
Now that you're making up quotes I know you're defeated. :D My point is that it is right and proper to hold a thorough and objective investigation, to produce a report with findings and then to consider corrective actions. :rolleyes: What is not right is to foam at the mouth about safety records, quote banal statistics in support of your opinions and then come up with instant recommendations all before breakfast the day after the incident. :eek: Your profile suggests you are a Chief Executive in this industry. I have to say I find this hard to believe. :eek: :eek: :eek: |
My deepest sympathy to all at MK on the loss of the aircraft as well as the loss of a crew member. Also, condolencies to the family of the crew member killed.
There seems to be a lot of "MK bashing" around here at the moment. Let us not pre-judge and wait for the result of the investigation. In all my dealings with them and their crews, I have always been impressed with their professionalism and attitude/approach to the work they are doing. Let us also not forget the amount of humanitarian aid that MK is involved in and all the countless people they have directly/indirectly assisted over the years. Were it not for them the world would be a poorer place. Might all of you at MK get over this terrible experience and learn from it and come out of it a better company able to survive even the most savage electronic attack from those that are so jealuous of you and your achievements. |
Goldfish Jack said
Let us also not forget the amount of humanitarian aid that MK is involved in and all the countless people they have directly/indirectly assisted over the years. Were it not for them the world would be a poorer place. A nice point, however, I don't think MK did this out of the kindness of their hearts. It has been mentioned that MK operated into some 'less than ideal' locations and I am sure they didn't lose on any shipments they may have made. All that said, another sad day for the aviation business. My condolences to all concerned. |
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