Generally, as long as it doesn't involve women, or investments, a Pilot can be counted on to do the right thing.

One, was taking cuts to get pilots of the USA through the post 9-11 downturn in the indsutry.

But, as surely as you can count on a pilot to do the right thing, you can count on management to abuse this...and take huge bonuses.

AFOS you are clueless.

I walked the picket line for 89 days in 2001, best 89 days I had in the ten years I worked there! We walked away the highest paid pilots in the US regional airline business.

I take my hat off to the the Spirit guys, you're more than welcome to ride my jumpseat anytime.

AFOS please keep your opinions to yourself, you have no idea what you're talking about. You're only making a fool of yourself every time you touch that keyboard.

Good luck with trying to raise your pay/quality of life Spirit pilots. It's nice to see a group trying to swim against the general tide of aviation whoring that goes on out here in both the airline and corporate worlds.

AFOS, your arrogance is unbelievable.



If every professional Pilot felt like you we would all live in the Aircraft, have no days off except the few the benevolent company gave us to work another job in order to pay them for the privilege of flying their Aircraft.


Good luck all you Spirit Pilots and hang in there.

Seems like a good time for the Teamsters to lobby a Democratic Government to amend or repeal the Railway Labor (sic) Act.

Wrong, AFOS, I am not a Spirit pilot and have never applied there. I am based in HKG flying for a HKG carrier. But I've been around aviation long enough to recognize an honorable cause when I see one.

And you are getting on this thread defending people (airline management) that exploited a horrendous situation like 9/11 to extrude concessions from employee groups in order to line their pockets with wads of cash.

That makes you no different than them. What makes you think that they are allowed to change the rules of the game and that their employees aren't? Spirit pilots have taken several concessions when the company said they needed to. Management did not reciprocate when they were raking in the money, yet you think it is their right to do that?

I sincerely hope that you never join our ranks again. I truly believe you are one of the individuals that has no problem racing to the bottom - willing to pay for training or cross a picket line just to get to your beloved job. :hmm:

Well said Squawk...If people like AFOS had his/her way even paying the company wouldn't be enough. I saw this same attitude coming from the COA 'replacement workers' back in the day...as if the COA strikers had 'signed up' sometimes decades prior, with Robert Six, for what Lorenzo and the Reagan labor department brought them...

SSDD

LZ 126

So the cause is honour, you are flying for a HKG carrier for honour.
I am only attempting to put the otherside of the debate, no matter how unpaletable it may be.
As someone else wrote or implied, why did my colleagues not take some sort of industrial action against our Boss / Management when they would not upgrade the fleet from B737-200's.
The airline was privately owned, if the Boss does not want to spend money upgrading either the fleet or ops computer system, strike action would not have made any difference. Some of my colleagues like myself are still out of work due to the huge down turn in not only aviation but the world economic situation.
While Spirit, BA and anyone else think it is the right time to go on strike for "honourable" demands is questionable.
Here in England we as tax payers have had to suffer the indignity of having our Government polititians steal money from us, our senior financial experts both in Government and heads of our national banks all being accountable for the current financial situation, they are all paid off handsomely with bonuses, pensions etc, there is not a jot we can do about it.
Even now as we slowly come out of reccession, the current bankers are receiving remuneration packages, again we can do nothing about it.
Its in their contracts.
Up until 9/11 and the current financial problems we received an annual increment, usually inline with the current inflation figure. Sure it was tiny after we paid our taxes while other Management, Directors, share holders, etc got more than us, we were grateful, we still had a job
Now if your contract states you, as a pilot, are entitled to profit sharing, then I would back you all the way. If, as I suspect, your contract does not entitle you to profit sharing, then I don't back you.
Am also sure that if the terms and conditions that Spirit operate to is that bad then your FAA would surely step in. I suspect the FAA have not stepped in because Spirit have not or do not operate in a manner that contavenes safety.
We have and had a lot of airlines here in England, some are still here a lot have gone and the only one I know about which has a history of industrial action is the flag carrier which is currently £1Billion in debt and paying millions a day to other carriers to operate on their behalf.
What would your management say if your airline had an opportunity to operate as a sub-charter on behalf of BA, to earn your company huge amounts of money but instead go on strike?

There is a time to take action and this is not the time as we see here in England as a lot of BA staff cross the picket line as their individual financial concerns bite and bite hard. Am sure the BA management will recognise those that went on strike and those that showed loyalty when it comes round to the next annual increment payout when times are better.

Good luck to all, fly sure and fly safe.
AFOS

AFOS sounds like a wannabe.....

It is a sad thing when pilots and maagement don't get along enough to work together to make a good place to earn a living and make a fair profit for shareholders. some of us work at an airline and own its stock.

our airline USE to settle contracts by management and unions going out to dinner at a crummy little hotel called the diamond slipper. this place might have been nice during the Eisenhower administration, but not during the Reagan or later.

During this time, our airline made money and had the best balance sheet in the industry. The pilots enjoyed a fine contract which I still long for.

Things changed, and not for the best. Our airline even took the Bibles out of the overhead compartment near the magazines. Is there a connection? hmmm. Cooperation is a thing of the past. Yet management has enjoyed huge pay packages, bonuses and severence packages.

But, the bottom line is this...fair treatment of employees is good business. Our airline has not had a pilot strike in over 22 years.

AFOS, you belong at Emirates or Qatar Airways. Squakk 7700, right on dude.

I can report that not one pilot of Spirit Airlines has crossed the line. Not one Spirit airplane has been flying since this past Saturday. The company has unsuccessfully tried to convince pilots to accept their garbage offer. The CEO has gone as far as emailing every pilots to try to "reason" with us. Management is in panic mode. Their plan has backfired. They were not expecting this at all.

The support of pilots from around the world has been overwhelming. We have so many pilots from different airlines picketing with us! Man, I am so proud of all our pilots at Spirit Airlines! We are staying strong. Please, keep spreading the word about our fight!

Bubi, glad to hear that nobody crossed the line. There was initially a scab list of there with just two names on it, but it's great to hear that the entire pilot group sticks together.

Time to strike is and will always be questionable. There will be always a bad time to strike. First, it was the post 11 September climate, then the financial crises etc. Looking at management, you'll realize that their economic climate always remained very adequate. Like I said, if you as a leader of a company request cutbacks start with yourself. Only a very few CEOs/chairmen come to mind who waived their bonuses, e.g. BA and Delta.

If management were serious and conscious then they wouldn't have to worry about strikes. It's their lies and deception that created the mistrust from their own employees.

Best wishes to the Spirit Airlines Pilots.

We have two Airlines in Canada, Jazz and Air Transat (both ALPA Members) close to strike action. "Enuf is Enuf" of the corporated thiefs getting rich on the backs of the "Skill and Dedication" of the Pilots.

We have all seen the pay and respect of this career fall into a tail spin. It has been a conscience effort by Airline Management's (around the globe) to get the Pilots where they want them.

AFOS, please stop trying to flame bait.
You are a moron, everyone on this board can see you are an idiot and have no spine.
The guys at Spirit are working for a company that is rolling in cash, it is time they spread that cash. Because of managments greed the pilots had no choice but to strike. Everytime there has been a strike in the airline business it was because managment forced it to happen.

Good luck Spirit pilots, everyone was is watching you and wishing you the very best.

Stand strong!

The Only Way to Win a strike
 

I wish it were not true. We are our own worst enemy. We actually like our job. People have said things like: I'd do this for zero pay.

when I started , my dreams were more of cool planes, brave pilots and beautiful girl flight attendants.

money was there of course, but...

So, in order to "WIN" we must say: this is a job and if you don't pay enough, you won't have anyone to fy those cool planes with the beautiful flight attendants.

The only way to win is be ready to lose. forever.

but you will win if you stay focused.

when you do go back to work, be sure you are all current to fly, both legally and in your own mind. if your strike lasts more than 90 days, the whole airline needs currency landings.

u get my drift

AFOS, I know a couple of Chinese coal mines in HKG's back yard. You should apply, I think you would love it and won't ever have to worry about going on strike or getting "too much" from your employer. I think you will fit right in. :ok:

And as someone has already mentioned, there will always be something that management will cry about. If it isn't loads, it is fuel price. Take my workplace. They hedged themselves silly when fuel was at its highest and lost 8 billion, which they wrote off in 2008 and came crying to employees to take unpaid leave.

Just one year later, fuel goes back up and they now make 4 billion of that loss back. What do they tell employees? Oh, it is just a "paper profit", we didn't really make that money.

Oh yeah? Well you didn't claim it was a paper loss when you asked for concessions, yet now you cry that it is only a paper gain. :yuk:

I am proud of the Spirit pilots for taking the action they did and strike against management gone amuck. These guys capitalized on postponing this with the archaic rules of the RLA. Now that the pilots are released to self help it becomes a level playing field. Let us all support them in this attempt to get all of our careers back on track.

AFOS
 

It is hard for me to believe that you could be flying a public transport aircraft around the same sky as we are, no-one can be as naive as you imply you are with your posts.

For every person there comes a point at which you say "this far and no further" and if 98% of your colleagues agree with your assessment then it is time to do something or forever bend over and take it, which you seem prepared to do. Quite frankly I am surprised that you are not employed perhaps in airline management, you seem to have the attributes that are so popular with upper management at many carriers and BTW responsible for so much labour strive in this industry.

Withholding your labour is the last step in a long process to try and inject reality into negotiations of working conditions, I do not know any Pilot that would happily chose a route which has no alternate, but sometimes that is all that is left.

As it has been said many times; 'you do not get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate"

I do wish you well!

If pay at Spirit is so pathetic to begin with then why did any of their current pilot group ever apply to them in the first place? If you should be getting paid Jet Blue wages then why didn't you just hold out for Jet Blue?

I will never understand the pilot mentality. "Please hire me, Please hire me, Oh, Please hire me. Thank you for the job now I am going to strike because I don't like the pay!!!!"


Let me tell you how it should work. Don't go work for the airline if the pay sucks. If you decide to go work for them, than shut your mouth and do your job.

YOU HAVE NOBODY TO BLAME BUT YOURSELVES:D

ohandgoodluck

It's All Good



Swa Needs More Gates At Kfxe Anyway...........

:hmm: FXE is Fort Lauderdale Executive! I think you'll find that SWA (and NKS) operate out of FLL ;)

Sounds like Sunset has it right to me....

Sunset_contrails_10, I can tell you have not been in the airline business very long. Are you one of those pilots that would also pay for a type rating? You guys are pathetic. You guys are the reason we fight in the first place. You keep lowering the bar in this industry.

Good luck on your job search (I see you are looking one - what a surprise!) but I guarantee you this type of attitude will get you no sympathy/respect in the cockpit.

Spirit Airlines pilots will be known in this industry. We will get what we want.

I just received news that we may have reached an agreement with the company! We are on the right track.

Just Read Associated Press Article Saying Agreement Reached...airline To Fly Again On Friday.

Looks Like The Pilots Won!

But, but Spirit management said they would close down their FLL base if the pilots went on strike! Were they lying or just changed their mind?

I know management wouldn't lie to it's employees like that just so they wouldn't strike......or would they?

I don't think that threat has been ever used before my management......
or has it?

And the beat goes on.....

MY MISTAKE KFLL IS CORRECT............




I AM GLAD THEY GOT A NEW CONTRACT.
MY GIRLFRIEND IS IN COLOMBIA AND SPIRIT IS A GREAT CARRIER.


:ok:

management, lie??????????

well, well, well...will someone explain that management teams lie all the time

The strike is over!!!

We have reached a tentative agreement with the company. All pilots are returning to work this Friday. Pilots still need to vote for or against it in early July. According to the union, the tentative agreement meets all our expectations.

I am waiting to see the TA before celebrating but this was a good fight. This is what happens when everyone stick together. Management was cornered. They had no choice. Power to the pilots!

Overcapacity?

I don't think so. Maybe a couple of years ago.

Of course being intimatedly involved in the airline business I would never invest in it (Fuel fluctuations, SARS, Volcanic Ash disruptions, Unhappy labour, over and undercapacity at the wrong times etc. )

Ok, I understand now. Airline management lies all the time because no matter how many times they lie some people will still believe them. Especially the public who only see the lies when it directly affects their lives.

saskatoon

no offense, but I don't think you have a clue how airlines work in the USA and how contracts work.

first off , these brave guys have been trying to get a contract update for3 years. so anything about last 12 months means zilch/nothing/nada/ zippo.

good luck spirit guys...and if the TA is as good as what the union expected, it sounds like the management team crumbled/caved in.

One of the really sad things is this. Management gets a bonus for screwing over pilots...management gets fired when things go well for pilots.

expect a new management team!

Pilots are hired under the terms of a CBA negotiated with the union. Each CBA is up for renewal after x years. Even after the CBA comes up for renewal, its terms remain valid until it is replaced by a new CBA.

Spirit's CBA was up for renewal three years ago. During these three years, negotiations have gone nowhere. The union said management dragged its feet to avoid committing to a new CBA, management said it wasn't true. Either way, the union got tired of waiting after three years, called in a strike and there's now apparently an agreement on a new CBA.

Yup, he sure does,and I've been in the airline business, as a line pilot, instructor,TRE/IRE and now...management, for over forty years.
The 'new' ALPO guys have sh** for brains.

Guys, you should be able to smell a windup on these forums. 411A and Sunset are nothing more than trolls fishing the PPRUNE waters. The best thing to do is ignore them and let them sit there with their fishing poles and no bites.

As far as the argument that "you sign a contract when you get hired, now deal with it", that shows a complete lack of understanding. Management also sign up with a set contract, yet they also renegotiate and get pay rises as the company grows and becomes more profitable. Why should any other employee group be any different?

And what about when management asks you for concessions? You can't apply one logic when the company needs your help, then turn around and say it is not valid during better times.

And for all you bottom-racers on here, there is a reason that all aircraft manufacturers are pushing for silly measures like MPLs and single pilot cockpits. Don't loose sight of this fact whenever you sell yourself short.

To all Spirit Crew; good to hear that you have reached an agreement and I hope that it meets or exceeds your expectations. Well done boys and girls, you have set an example that unity, participation, and spending time to know your rights is a powerful weapon against corporate tyranny. Next time we are in the bar together, whenever that may be, the round is on me! :D

Well said 7700,

There is another round of Kudos that needs to be extended as well... This goes to all the non sked and charter operator pilots out there that refused to fly charters for SPIRIT. Spirit managment thought they would simply be able to charter 30 or so jets on the open market (and they certainly exist out there) to replace the flying.

Only 1 flight was successfully chartered. A falcon air MD80 who's crew is now famous (and not in a good way, search youtube if you like). Managment was unable to contract the lift, and good on every pilot in America working at other airlines that told their own management, not only no but HELL NO!

Cheers
Wino:ok:

You do not get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate. To be successfull you have to negotiate from a position of strengh. It appears to me that management thought their position of strengh was to lie and obfuscate while threatening job cuts and thus intimidate the pilot group into accepting a substandard contract. The union played to its strengh, union solidarity during a withdrawl of services, an outcome the mangagement was clearly unprepared for.

Seems to me the airline management was thoughly out manoevered. This is not personal it is just business. The scary part is that Spirit mangement has been exposed as incompetant clowns...this does not bode well for the future as competant management is important for the long term success of the airline. Just look at Southwest, IMO the best managed airline in North America if not the world.

Yup.
Look for the present management to be replaced, then the ALPO contract will be renegotiated in about twelve months.
No renegotiation?
Fold the airline and assign the certificate to a new entity.
Connie Kaletta did this quite successfully some years ago, leaving the union high and dry.
ALPO guys never learn.....:ugh:

So far no airline in the history of aviation has cut its way to long term profitabilty. It is easy to cut wages, the hard work is managing the in a system wide and systematic consistant way, the tension between efficency and operational effectiveness and having the vision and intestinal fortitude to spend 1 dollar now to save 10 dollars down the road. Spirit unfortunately IMO is probably a flash in the pan that will eventually sucumb to the failings of its misguided fetish on cost savings at any cost......

The good news is at least in the mean time the pilots will at least have decent terms and conditions.