In 1968, a Civil Air Transport (CAT) 727 crashed on approach to Taipei. The crew were following the ILS indications and flew into the ground. The ILS had previosly been reported as being unreliable but was still being used. Many on board were killed, but the flight deck crew survived. The crew were charged with manslaughter, the first time ever in aviation history that pilots had been charged with such a crime after an accident. In the meantime, the Taiwan authorites checked the ILS and decalred it safe, only letting the NTSB inspect the facility after 'routine maintenace"had been carried out.

CAT were an American airline which were based in Taiwan having moved there after the fall of China to the Communists, and were involved in many disagreements with the Taiwan authorities. It appears the charges were politically motivated. Many pilots were prepared to attest the ILS was malfuntioning , but were not called to give evidence during the court case. It was looking bad for the accused until the chariman of IFALPA went to Taipei and pointed out that IFALPA members were prepared to boycott Taiwan entirely.

The crew were aquitted when the Taiwanese realised IFALPA had the power to isolate their country.

Ernest Gann wrote a novel based on the incident called 'Band of Brothers'.

politics
 

Politics has no place in safety critical industries or in accident investigations. Regulators & politicians are the ones who need to get a grip of this sort of thing.

The You Tube recording was of a crew finding themselves in a very tight spot indeed & attempting to stay calm & deal with it professionally. Maybe it wasn't perfect but few of us are.

If the pilots are guilty enough to be jailed, how about the regulators who are criticised in the report, the company management & specifically the person in charge of engineering shop procedures?

Of course there is the fuel number mis match but I don't find the report that clear on that issue.

Surely then the manufacturer is also partly to blame. If there are two apparently identical but incompatible gauges it should not be possible to exchange them. This could be done with a simple mechanical modification like a pin that sticks out on one side for a 42 and the other side for a 72 and modify the panel accordingly so you can only install the right one.

Study finds criminal prosecution following accidents damages flight safety


unfortunately that is how things in italy are done. whenever something happens, justice system takes over, seize everything, throw everybody in jail then in the best case forget about it, or after years of court auditions distributes heavy sentences. there is indeed a battle between ANSV, aeronautical authorities and justice system because investigation are delayed or totally impeded by the justice system intrusions. last year a microlight was invoklved in a fatal accident, local authorities seized the wreckage then forgot about it. i think it is still unavailable for any investigation.

if italian ATC is as bad as it is, is also because they constantly operate in CYA mode, expecially after OE-FAN

"On this cvr recording, no panic or long prayers are heard. Could it be possible that this cvr recording isn't complete, or where long prayers removed by editing the sound?

Or are the prosecutors lying?"

italian media is 50% BS, 25% fabrication, 25% distortion

not that other mainstreammedia is much better, they all take the garbage from newsagencies

When the truth hits your eye like a big Italian lie.
 

Sadly, Italy, a great place in many ways, has a political and justice system, that is akin to the worst Banana Republics. Corruption is rife, adherence to the rule of law and the spirit of justice tenuous. Internicine fueding between agencies widespread. In some areas, organised crime actually runs the show. What has happened to these pilots is a travesty of justice and surely airline pilots worldwide should make it clear to the Italians that this is not on. This sentence should not be allowed to stand. Underlying this may also be a subtle form of religious discrimination or racism. An appeal to the European Court of Human Rights might actually wake the Italians up. A 3rd world state on a 1st world continent. :(

ICAO
 

I found it interesting to read the ICAO report on Italy AuditReports1-CSA

They scored on or above average on all sections.

However, the section about legislation contains the following gem.The Italians included a section on actions with a date of December 2006 to fix that issue..............

"..Underlying this may also be a subtle form of religious discrimination or racism. An appeal to the European Court of Human Rights might actually wake the Italians up. A 3rd world state on a 1st world continent"

Yes, I expected all of the above. As soon as somebody points out a real – or perceived – problem in Itlay, Ppruners all around the world start to judge our political/social/judiciary system, which is something I really appreciate when and if this becomes a constructive (compared to distructive) critique.
Accusing our system to be ‘racist’ and then classifying Italy as a ‘3rd world state in a 1st world continent’ says it all about the moral honesty (and subtle racism, this time for true) of the person who is happily dividing the world in three classes…

Age quod agis
 

Daniel 11000

There is nothing "racist" about defining a country in terms of 1st, 2nd or 3rd world status. It simply a review of key indicators across a list of internationally recognised metrics of the development of a country (of which the justice system is one element). To be fair Italy (a country I like) ticks many of the 1st world boxes. Sadly the Italian justice system is a scandal. Whatever happened to the precepts of Roman Law that underpin the justice system core to many systems here in Europe? And yes, I did study Roman Law and , yes, I did study in a 3rd world country. South Africa to be exact. Make of that what you will!:ok:

Michael Birbeck
 

So now it seems to me that we disagree only on the fact that some Countries can/cannot be classified as ' 3rd world'... (or 1st, or 2nd..)
Daniel

Never lose sight of the fact that we're discussing an Italian court's decision. An ostensibly 1st world country and EU member. But whose law-making processes and/or judiciary have often caused the Economist newspaper to express grave concerns over the past decade or so. Especially all those laws and/or amendments which almost 'miraculously' save/d Silvio Berlusconi from prosecution over various alleged offences...

So far as I'm aware, the ATR airplane in question is a product of a consortium, that is to say, a joint-venture between EADS and (you guessed right) Italy's FINMECCANICA / Alenia Aeronautica. The court basically found that all of the blame rests on shoulders well down-stream of the manufacturer/s, oh well...

It's a sobering thought (or should be) that in today's EU, a decision by any one of the EU member states' courts against any individual, regardless of where they are currently in the EU, is expected to be acted upon without any further due process etc. So that if an Italian kangarou court decides you're due 10 years' nick, and you're found in UK, the UK are obliged to send you over to Italy without any extradition process or whatever required beforehand (have I got that right?).

Like some others here, I'm extremely disappointed by all the media reports about the prayers (which the CVR doesn't support). As always, it would be useful to know just how much of their income such media depend on from the commercial enterprises involved. Or how many BNP supporters buy their newspapers...

Had this particular ATR airplane been flying nearby the Hudson, instead of in Italian airspace with poorly English-speaking ATC controllers, the outcome might have been quite different (even with the same casualties), with all the media acclaiming the pilots' efforts...?! :rolleyes:

Hello,

Yes you got it right .. :ok:
That's the EAW (European Arrest Warrant)
SCADPlus: European arrest warrant

Regards. http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/a/bye.gif

Outrageous
 

Ridiculous, simply OUTRAGEOUS

... and by the way everybody knows that exept for a couple of exemption the Italian Magistrates do not have a very good reputation :mad:

wow - religion brings down aircraft
 

Instead of following check lists after a fuel problem, this pilot decided to pray.

Crash pilot who paused to pray is convicted | U.S. | Reuters

I am sure others will, but I won't comment on this.....

Well, the Archbishop of Canterbury said God isn't going to help us. Maybe that pilot hadn't been told!

Had just been reading this in the Irish Press.... crazy.

Also a link here: Pilot who paused to pray in crash-landing sentenced to 10 years in jail - Telegraph

YouTube - Tuninter Ditching Black Box

not sure they deserved 10 years for this... it wasn't as if they were praying completely the last few minutes prior to impact. The inevitable was about to happen, in the last few seconds he / they prayed.

They read the checklist, you people like to fun of anything, so what if they prayed. What is wrong with prayer. I hope you won't be put in any situation as this, then we know whom will you be calling upon. If you are sure then there will be no screams on the tape.

IFALPA...hello, hello, anyone home? Come out of your useless talking shop and show us what you're made of ! There but for the grace of God & the grace of Swiss Cheese go all of us who operate into, out of, or through Italian airspace. I thought we had seen the end of this sort of nonsense with the Swissair guys who had the misfortune to end up in jail after going off the end at the old Athens airport, but obviously not. Disgraceful.

Gutter press
 

Don't believe everything you read in the press. Also try and note what other threads are covering the same topic. :ugh:

The (disgracefully) leaked CVR shows a professional crew (pretty much unaided by woeful Italian ATC) making a decent fist of ditching the aircraft. A couple of murmured prayers prior to touch down are hardly the basis for a case against these men even though I for one would be swearing, not praying.