English Please!
 

Hi all,

I work for a "EUROPEAN" airline, and recently heard whispers that at work the only language I am supposed to use is ENGLISH. Not obeying this rule, will see the employee in question being called up and punished.

I understand in our business that, in the cabin, the company may prefer their employees speak english in front of passengers. That is their right

HOWEVER ------->

WHAT gives a company the right to insist on ENGLISH being spoken elsewhere at work (i.e briefing room / canteen before going out to the aircraft).

This is nothing short of racial intolerance, but I suspect it is more to do with paranoia, whereby management are suspicious of what is being talked about, or maybe so uneducated that they are just not capable of understanding a language other than english.


Your Comments please,

Thanks,
A Frustrated EUROPEAN :)

Don't worry mate.

You can disregard that statement by your employer. (Which airline is it?) In Europe you may speak any language you would like. For all normal day-to-day communications between people there are no restrictions. The only language restrictions that an employer can dictate are all technical communications, these must be in English.
- checklist reading
- flying the airplane (set speed two five zero/ gear down/start right engine/ etc)
- AML entries must be in english
- the like.....

but small talk at FL350 about the color of the underwear you are wearing may be done in Cherokee if you like.;)

You are obviously not German, French or British for no pilots I know from those nations would ever categorise themselves as European !

FoxNiner - I agree,
but employees have been dragged into the office,
raised voices stating that UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE are they to speak any language BUT English. or otherwise face the consequence.

European, yes I am, BEAMER Spanish too....but for a European Airline to enforce such a rule is nothing short of criminal

You're right; I am uneducated.

I write, speak and understand one language, sadly, though whilst on duty in Shanghai recently, I did attempt to learn Mandarin through a professional organization.

One thing I do know, mostly through experience, is that I can make a fool of myself in only one language, whereas you, given you speak many languages, are in a position to make a fool of yourself in many.

English is the international language of aviation.

Now that ICAO has mandated all professionals in critical areas of aviation be measured in and maintain a standard of English Proficiency in order to operate in their capacity as pilot, ATCO etc, you may find this to be the reason your company has mandated you speak English in all areas of the workplace.

I was recently with a company whose Ops Manual stated that 'English is to be used on the flight deck'. They were ahead of their time.

As to why ICAO mandated English Proficiency as a requirement to hold a license to operate in critical areas of aviation, it would appear to be due to the measurable fact that of all incidents and accidents we've endured as an industry, a high percentage continues to be a consequence of a breakdown in communication.

Result: English Proficiency tests for all.

Be glad it wasn't Mandarin Proficiency.:E

I take your point 4PW
however I am not talking about communication related to work!!
English Language Prof. is a totally different subject.


instead I am talking about in the canteen for example, chatting with friends, catching up with any "scandal" at work etc etc. crazy night outs the list goes on,


and if we do want to communicate with friends, ENGLISH only, so they KNOW what we did on our crazy nites out no doubt :)

believe it or not, the company will NOT allow us speaking in our native language...

they can not do that in the EU.

Sue them. (probably wise via your Pilot's Union)

English Proficiency tests for all
 

Agree 100%.

Sadly ,also many native English (or Aussie or American,...) could use such a test.

well i would love to see what they could do since it goes against one of the most basic civil rights of an individual...

trying to suspend the person for example.....
hmmm union ,i might give them a call


is what they are implementing illegal,
the local aviation authority i am sure wouldnt be happy with this situation...

But just think about it. If you use English in the workplace other than on the aircraft, your English proficiency would be enhanced and take you well beyond the minimum for flight ops.

Rather than see it as a problem, see it as an opportunity for all in the airline to improve their English and perhaps improve their employability.

Guys and Girls

to be clear this is NOT a thread about the english prof test required to fly
it is about the following
off the aircraft
at work
in the crew room / canteen
talking to colleagues in a language other than english!!!!!

I dont think anyone needs to improve their language if they are able to go through training and communicate at work. You wouldnt speak spanish at home if you are russian.

When you are on a company ground; canteen, apron, changing room etc...it is still a company who owns or rents that place therefore you are to obey their regulations. "English only" is mostly to show the respect to other people not talking your native language as If you would put yourself in the middle of Rwanda and listen to Swahili, kinnda weird right?
So don't get to emotional with this,the English is the most spoken language amidst the international crews anywhere...so this doesn't come as a surprise.

Mike_76,

The company that you are talking about are they based in your home country?

I (Dutch) work for a British company and the company employs several of my countrymen. Whenever I am on the staff bus from the car park to the office or in the office, I will always speak English even to my countrymen. Nothing has been said by the company but I have chosen to come and work in the UK and therefore I have to adapt to them, not the other way around.

What the human rights activist etc. say I don't care. For me it is common sense and it shows some respect for my colleagues.

I take your point SKYDROL however,
If i shop in LIDL do you expect me to speak GERMAN
ich bin auslander und spreche nicht...."" Im showing off, but seriously

ask any solicitor and he or she will explain that when you are talking about civil rights, management who restrict freedom of speaking their native language in a informal setting as the work canteen is down right in breach of a person basic civil rights
YES infront of pax, where you are within earshot of your farepaying passengers etc. where company income may be affected, I do agree with an Engish only rule,
BUT
threatening staff with this gagging order I would think places the company on dodgy ground.

:mad:


CEJM
i know where you are coming from,
you are showing respect as do I

i speak english when english speaking people are within my company...
but when speaking to native spanish speakers, i expect my company would ALLOW and give me permission to talk to them in the language that I grew up with,

Mike_76 can you explain what a language has to do with racial intolerance? Are ICAO now guilty of some obscure racial "thingy" because of the requirement to speak a specified language? Why is everyone so obsessed with "race" when in reality it has nothing to do with "race"?

...I'm getting lost here.

What about taking this up with your employer?

Ask why; surely they'll know the reason.

We can't help.

English proficient?
 

I have a dugree un Unglish and yet I still have to sit the proficiency test...

This is total bollock !!
You may speak whatever language you want ouside the aircraft. Your employer wouldn't last 2 seconds in a court of law.
If the whole world ends up speaking " english only " it is going to become a jolly boring place.

My company also states that English is the designated language on board for communication between crew members. ( I believe it is a licencing authority requirement) This even means "chats" between crew members who may both speak a different first language. I should imagine it is more to do with maintaining good CRM among the rest of the crew rather than some crew members talking in a different language that nobody else on the crew can understand. It is a bit like whispering. It can be seen as rude and antisocial, even if it isn't meant to be.

Yes hunterboy, no-one would disagree with it in the cockpit setting, where effective communication is vital, though I guess in an emergency if two Spaniards revert to Spanish (or whatever language you choose) the management wouldn't have much to complain about.

However, in personal conversations that have no safety impact, and are not work related, any attempt to enforce any particular language is on very dodgy ground legally, ethically and morally.

This could well be a case of a manager overstepping the mark somewhat. Maybe he felt that a joke was being made at his expense? It's easy to misread situations such as that. The fact remains that any attempt to discipline someone on those grounds would count as grossly unfair under English law I feel.

There ARE grounds where a certain language to be used can be dictated, but any dyktat cannot apply to personal, private conversations!

Official communications in the recognised language is fine.

Imposing English as the "official" language of the organisation, ie to be spoken by all employees while on organisation property...

Sounds like some desk driver who needs to be dislodged tbh.

Talk to his superior... you may find a sympathetic ear. :ok:

Chances are this is not the only mad cap scheme he's come up with...

new requirement---
 

soon you must speak english at home to your family as well!!

security reasons--big brother only understands english.

Sounds as though someone in management has been tasked with raising the level of spoken English throughout the company and has come up with the idea that it should be spoken everywhere when on company time. Probably didn't get his point over very well as a). the memo was in English and b). was not, therefore, properly understood by staff. The Spanish in aviation are not exactly famous for a high level of spoken and comprehended English, are they?;)

As for racism, management wanting to eavesdrop, any possible disciplinary action for not speaking English, breaching of civil rights etc. total tosh I would say, very much in the mind of Mike76, no one else!

Please explain where you think the issue of RACE comes into it.

The last time I heard about someone not beeing permited to speak it's native language, was about the Nazi's requesting so during WW2.
Even in the aeroplane I speak my native language if the person who I am speaking to understands this language better than english. And I am flying for a british airline:ok:

I should have put money on the Nazis being brought into this. Just can't help themselves some people.



Godwin's Law

yep, about sums it up.
Some younger folks (and a few older ones as well) get in a snit when the company 'mandates' a certain standard....however, at my airline English is widely spoken, even amongst the various cabin crew, even though it is not the language of their country.
Why?

These folks seem to strive for a higher standard and have their sights set for bigger/better things.

The company that mandates English is most times doing you a favor.
To think otherwise is...well, I have to say so...backward thinking.

The ones too dumb to realise same need not apply....:rolleyes::eek::yuk:

Welsh?
 

Have you ever spoken English in a crowded pub in wales and noticed how they all start talking welsh suddenly ?
most jobs in wales insist on being able to speak welsh when you see them advertised..

An Englishman drinking in a Welsh pub?? You got to be kidding me:}:}

Well I agree with the policy. Having worked in a multi-national company for many years, I dont see it as against your human rights or anything. I believe this rule is part of your contract of employment, and therefore breaking it, is breaking your contract.

It is also immensely rude, and devisive, to your fellow employees who do not understand your language. Do what you want out of earshot, but show some respect for your colleagues when in there presence, please.

Your company's 'requirement' that all its personnel speak English everywhere has nothing to do with 'race' (People of many races speak English as their mother - and often only - tongue.)

IMO, the edict itself isn't worth getting worked up about, either. There are times when - for flight safety or operational efficiency reasons - it might be reasonable to require you to speak English. You may feel that there are times when that would be unreasonable.

Life's short and there are only so many beats in a heart. It's really not worth getting worked up about it. If there's no flight safety or operational reason (and you can prove it in a court of law) that would proscribe you from speaking Catalan on a particular occasion, then go ahead and do so.

Do you really think anybody will do anything about it?

If they fire you, take them to court (In Spain; it's not an EU matter - yet) and you will win.

Aren't you glad they didn't require you to speak Gaelic? ;)

I'm a little surprised to read of airlines forcing English as a cockpit language on aircrew. Presumably the aircrew are given a great deal of training in cockpit English before this requirement is forced upon them?

The ability to use a non-mother tongue second-language in the cockpit in a very high workload situation (eg an emergency) requires a very high degree of fluency and way beyond what is required to make small-talk in the canteen.

The chances of anyone using Welsh on an airliner flight deck are pretty slim. It is an ancient language and doesn't have any words for anything modern, like 'wheel' or 'fire'......

Listening to 'Jones-the-motor' in Valley village conversing with his staff about the ailments of your car was hilarious - a few Druidic grunts interspersed with English for anything technical. Good chap though - he managed to find me a replacement MG Midget throttle cable at 1700 on a wet Friday evening!

Being of a somewhat "twisted" nature, if they are insisting that the only spoken communication is in english, I'd carry a small notebook & pencil in my hip or top pocket & suggest, in english of course, to my colleagues to do the same. It's amazing how quickly a sort of text message-like shorthand develops in any language, and to anyone not involved in it's development, or the conversation, it's almost like a code.

Yes, there are benefits in terms of langauge proficiency etc to constant use, but there are ways to promote this, and it sounds like there's been little or no thought gone into this one. If the mess room's silent for a couple of weeks apart from the scribbling of pencils, they should get the message.

throttle cable is "sbardunau gwifr" in welsh.

sbardunau is derived from the word for spurs.

Curious
 

So which airline is it? EZY? Ryan?

Some things sound familiar... :suspect:

Interestingly enough, there is currently an advert running for Instructors and Pilots for Air France - fluency in French is required.
I think Mike 76's post is a reflection on his airline trying to improve the standard of spoken English - maybe he has misconstrued the 'encouragement' for 'mandatory'?

But does AF also claim to be a pan-European airline with bases throughout Europe?

411A

Away from the cockpit a lot of those people aiming at better and grander things ( yuk !!) so just happen to also want to speak their native language. They often speak a better english than the folks around your neck of the wood.
It is just a matter of principle. You MAY speak as many languages there are within the european community.
Any manager who thinks he can dictate what belongs to the most basic of rights should be sent to Mars never to be seen again.
Lord Allmighty !!!!!:mad: This kind of talks scare the living s..t out of me.
Why don't you learn another language ??? It'll broaden your mind and in these times of Alzeimer , it is a proven fact that learning one or more , foreign languages is good for your brain. Ya know things like " new neuronal connections ( no punt intended ) .It also makes you a lot more open to others and changes the perspective you have on the world. You know things like " another point of view " ??? ...........in short, human.
Tempted 411A ?

Welcome all your comments,

After reflection, it probably doesnt have anything to do with RACE BUT
it does imfringe on ones personal right to speak what language they want,(when not on the aircraft)

I could start naming the AIRLINE, but hey I will just leave it to yourselves to figure it out.

I would agree, it seems to be a case where a manager has over stepped the mark, either to try and make a name for themselves, or just paranoid of what people are talking about. In order to cure their own self insecurity, a BLANKET BAN on ALL LANGUAGES except for ENGLISH seems to be managers way of fixing the situation, (if a situation exists in the first place)

Yes, taking this to court, the company wouldnt have a leg to stand on

So a word of congratulations to the manager,
you really know the staff that work under you
such a sympathetic ear,
imagine if an employee really did have a personal problem,
how difficult if would be to bring this to the attention of the manager,
especially if the manager thinks the world is out there going to get him

I wonder if this decision is was made at a higher level or not....