LHR Night Flights ?????
 

Today is D day for night flying at LHR, Local’s who live under the flight path have gone to court EU type to stop flying in the dark hours...
If they win does this mean more p45`s to be dished out and will this result in a ban for all EU airports.......

Wish I bought shares in the Euro-Tunnel....

H

Never too late...under 200 miles high speed rail makes much better sense. Buy those shares (if you still have a paycheck).

It appears they have won.

They have won. The European Court of Human
Rights have ruled that people are entitled to a good nights sleep and that there should be no flights arriving or departing between 2330 and 0600. The judgements are not binding on national governments but the UK govt has always implemented the court's decision in the past.

What about the "Human rights" of the employees who will be affected by this ruling? Especially at this time. These stupid tossers moved to the area AFTER Heathrow became one of the world's busiest airports. This is easily the worst case of nimbyism I have ever seen! If they had their way, they would shut LHR down and let AMS, CDG, etc have all the business. :mad:
CP 32

Well said CP. Another decision determined by poltical correctness swaying practical common sense. Why not limit the movements/noise levels as before or adjusted.
Maybe there will be some eventual compromise with the usual "compensation" paid for with our taxes! If so, limit it to people who moved to the area before the airport developed?

Not just EGLL that this will affect. Some smaller airports rely on their nightflights to keep them afloat. Whilst LHR will always survive, there may be hard times for some small airports that do not have the throughput of pax. flights in the day,if they are also forced to kertow to this EU twaddle! What are the chances of Labour gov. not implementing? 0%?

I can't see this absurd ruling being implemented by the UK government, just because of the ridiculous precedent it sets. Next up will be all the people who live beside the North Circular or A1,or living next to a railway line, claiiming their human rights are being violated with cars and trains travelling by night - where will it end?

I hope you're right, but experience suggests otherwise. UK governments, whatever colour, almost always do what Europe says. In contrast, other countries comply if they think the decision is sensible.

Why people who don't like a/c noise choose to live near airfields/airports is beyond me.

Actually its good news.
Lets face it, Heathrow is a joke, overcrowded, delays, lousy public transport. It should have been shut years ago and a new airport built away from the most densely populated part of the UK. Maybe they will finally figure this out - move it and add a few more runways as well.

"Maybe they will finally figure this out - move it and add a few more runways as well"

.... and use the old Heathrow to land all those flying pigs.

I believe this was perused by just eight residents, So if like user123 suggests the moving to another area. Just 8 country bumpkins complaining about the good night’s sleep the cow & chicken are not getting they could probably stop that too.

These people will be the first to complain when the first class letter post does not arrive at seven O'clock to be read with the newspaper that also hasn’t arrived while eating there cornflakes because no night freighter could land before six.

Unless they moved in before 1955 when the main terminal was opened they shouldn’t have a leg to stand on. They probably moved in when the noisy 707s & VC10s were operating so that should have told them something, and are now complaining about relatively quiet 777s and A330s, plus aircraft are getting quieter.

Good News!!! :rolleyes:
I assume 'user123' isn't in the aviation industry.
This is seriously bad news for European aviation. Others in other European countries will take advantage of this stupid ruling.
Which was there first? The wealthy Richmond protesters, or LHR?

[ 02 October 2001: Message edited by: Alty Meter ]

Do not count me as protester, I happily bought under 09L, well aware of the noise, and lived within 6 miles of LHR since the seventies. Cannot wait for Speedbird 1 to return........ ;)

The court decided flights between 11pm and 6am infringe a person's right to have a good night's sleep, covered by article eight of the convention on rights.

Airlines and airports across the country are likely to be affected by the decision and
not just LHR

Did the people who bought houses not know
about the airport and was this reflected
in the price - I think so..........

On the other hand mopeds often wake me after
11 pm when I am asleep and people coming
back from the pub and older cars and..
etc.. ambulances police helicopters etc .. Lets Ban everything lets have a curfew after 11 p.m. in Europe so we can all get a good
night ..

The UK independance party will love this
sleep

[ 02 October 2001: Message edited by: RVR800 ]

The BBC news report also referred to affects on other airports, such as EMA, which depends on night freight flights.

As if we did'nt have enough problems in the aviation industry.

Those people shut be banned from any flight for life time! :D :D :D

Makes Aberdeen's latest closing time of 2330 (L) look positively flexible!

If this did impact on the rest of the UK (and Europe?), are we going to see the time when only a few percent of flights take place during the night and we try to pack even more aircraft into the sky and on the tarmac during the day? Sounds like a safety issue to me.

I agree that this is silly, and wonder whether the UK Government will implement the recommendation. If 8 people are so upset over the noise...they should move! Or should we play into their hands, and ban all cars, lorries, tubes, trains, buses and motorcycles between the same times, so these eight people can get their bed rest.

I live in Central London, and hear the flights (like this a.m.'s BOS-LHR BA Flight, arriving at 05:05)...but that is part of living in a city...just like taxis whizzing down the road at 02:20 a.m., or milk floats at 5:45 a.m. with bottles rattling.

Flew back into LGW on Sunday, and we had to circle for 40 minutes above Sussex because we were not permitted to land before 6:00 a.m. Imagine the added pollution (both emission and noise wise) that created over Britain (there were 9 flights circling), just so a few cry-babies could sleep? It yielded queues at immigration 40 minutes long (a lovely welcome to Britain for tourists in an environment where tourism yield is already poor this year). So, when the 8 people wake up from their slumber, and wonder why they have no jobs becuase the economy is in a mess, perhaps they should re-think their opposition to night flying and buy a pair of ear plugs!!

LGW & LHR should be open 24 hrs!!!!! That will get my vote....and we should have T5 (and T6 while we're at it) plus extra runways for LHR & LGW and STN...and if you don't like it...move to Siberia where it is nice and quiet!!!!!! :) :mad:

Here's a scenario,

All night landings & t/os are banned across Europe.
The airports that are already bursting at the seems during the day will have nowhere to put the extra movements.
What UK airport has room to expand, two runways and a lcal population looking for work.
If you haven't already worked it out, MAN has all these and also has a rail link in place to take the commuters on Mr Branson's puffertrains.

The only downside is another influx of cockneys going on about how much they have just sold their 3 bed semi for and bought half of cheshire with change to spare!!

One resident living under the flight path, Virginia Godfrey, described the nightly noise from aircraft as intolerable. She told the BBC: "It's loud enough to wake you up, and loud enough that you don't get back to sleep again once you've been woken up."

So you see: it's that 'special' type of noise that not only wakes you up but means you can't go back to sleep again (possiblye forever).

See the prostesters' Website at www.hacan.cero.co.uk for more such nonsense.

[ 02 October 2001: Message edited by: simbad3000 ]

As the old saying goes, "If you choose to live next to a zoo, do not be surprised at the noise lions make"

Are these people too stupid to look at a map when they decide to invest x thousands of pounds! :mad: :mad:

We have the same situation here at work. It is only the oldest airfield in the UK, and the NIMBY's still claim they didn't realise there was an airfield here!

Wonder if Broadmoor up the road has any vacancies, as clearly these people are too stupid for their own good! ;)

What about cargo movements?
Look at the multitude of overnight cargo movements, mail,post,food supplies,courier material, express packages... an so on.

Operators have spent millions on upgrading fleets to Stage III compliance in order to successfully operate at night time and make a living. There are very little cargo aircraft flying at night now which are NOT stage III. What is the point of having all of this Stage III investment if there is going to be a blanket curfew?

Look how detrimental this is likely to be?

Come on, lets have some support from the air cargo fraternity.

I can understand 20 years ago when we had BAC1-11, B707 and VC10s blasting around but now - all this investment, all these other problems facing the industry - now this!!

GOODNESS GRACIOUS, WHATEVER NEXT.
SOUNDS LIKE A BIT MORE B.F.H. (BUS FARE HOME) :mad:

I bet none of those 'idiotic 8' don't work or have friends/family work within the aviation business. These stupid, smug people have no idea what misery they may inflict on us all - they are employment terrorists. I saw their reaction when they heard they'd won - what a bunch of pompous and self-centred bas£ard$.
This is the last thing the airline industry needed.

Sorry,
but at MAN/EGCC umpteen years ago an "airline Station Manager" coplained [for 20 mins] that an a/c had done a "non-standard SID".
As a plus point. A lady moved to a house less than 1 mile finals for 24R....There's hope yet!
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy

Should any of you (nearly 38,000 registered PPRuNers - and yes, you do have a powerful voice) like to write directly to the folks at HACAN, to express an alternative view point about night flights, here are some links (Nb. You'll find that these following email addresses are freely available on their site) :

The Chairman : [email protected]

Vice-Chairman : [email protected]

Enjoy.....

And I'm going to take up my human rights at the EU. Why, becaue I work nights and sleep thru the day so all those aircraft that go over my house into LHR during the day are infringing my rights to a good days kip.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

And I am really :mad: at this crap

OK, here's what we do. These people have been kind enough to supply their contact details here - so let's make use of them to point out the error of their ways!

For starters, ask when they moved there - and if it was after 1955, did they not notice that there were aircraft? Then point out that thousands of people rely on the airport and the passengers and cargo they bring in for their livelihoods. Ask if they are involved economically with the airport in any way. Point out that the BAA provided free double glazing for everyone affected by noise pollution. Sign up for the Snap list here and provide them with the facts.

Given the crises already facing the industry, this is something we don't need right now!

I live in chiswick and am disgusted by the whole thing. These people are interfering busybodies who have no thought except for their own selfish ends and the self importance that accrues from it.

HANG ON A MINUTE.........,
1 - As has been pointed out already, this is an EU directive, not legally binding in the UK. Suprisingly,(or not), only 50% of such directives are adhered to straight away by the Government, lets hope that this is one of the 50% they ignore.
2 - Whilst Heathrow may have some restrictions placed upon it, this is because the BAA could not prove the economic necessity of having these flights at the those times.
The vast majority of night movements at other airports are economically necessary, ie night mail, parcels and urgent freight, passenger flights which cannot be operated at any other time. Therefore the likes of EMA etc are likely to be unaffected.
3 - There is, as I understand it, no UK legislation which is binding with regard to noise caused by transport.

Even if you discount the above, the political fall out of UK regional airports losing vital night trade, and therefore the whole regional economic infrastructure being affected, would be too much for the local politicians and the government to face.

AsI understand it this is nothing to do with the EU per se, it is a European Court.

It's not the flights, it's which flights. Largely Far East and largely BA, these flights are disproportionately business-oriented. Very bad news for employees of the hundreds of FE companies along the M4 strip.

Likely loser LHR, thus London - no 2 world business centre.

Likely winners? AMS? CDG? (it's out of town after all) FRA?

I despair of this, and I live 20 miles west of LHR under the 09L approach.

:(

Thanx Guv [what AM I saying :D ]
Read the blurb, sent an email..What can I do? :confused: ...hope that every other Ppruner does the same :D
cheers
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy

chiglet: As Unwell_Raptor points out this is nothing to do this the European Union. This was a ruling by the European Court of Human Rights which is a body of the Council of Europe not the EU. The CoE composes 43 countries, including Russia.

The ruling is not binding on the UK government, although they have a “strong record” of implementing them. However, the European Convention on Human Rights was recently incorporated into UK law which I think means (correct me if I’m wrong someone) that anti-noise groups could take their cases to the UK courts instead of the ECHR and the rulings would be binding.

European Union....European Court of Human Rights....Council of Europe......... they're all the same to me and it's quite outrageous that these people are telling us in this country how to run our lives.

Sent an email today.

Shame that it will not wake them up in the middle of the night!!

Squealing Pig, Guv and others were wondering whether these eight whingers had lived there before 1955. Well, the dates that seven of them moved in are given in the ruling at www.echr.coe.int. They are:

Philippa Edmunds 1992
Peter Thake 1990
John Hartley 1989
John Cavalla 1970
Jeffray Thomas 1975
Richard Bird 1968
Tony Anderson 1963

The top three at least shouldn’t have had a leg to stand on.

If flights to/from Heathrow are to be banned for those hours (2300 to 0600) during the night, logically the people living near to every airport within the EEC (AMS, CDG and FRA included) would get the night flights banned also.

It will also put the likes of TNT, UPS, DHL and our own Royal Mail in a bit of a predicament also, with the vast majority of their flights being at those times.

I, along with many of you out there have to work during the hours quoted...can we now take our employers to the ECHR and claim they are infringing our human right to a good nights sleep......what a load of bollox this decision is, just like many of their other decisions. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

:mad: These ******s make me puke. Unfortunately, the world we live in is full of tossers. I learned to fly at Biggin Hill, an airport that is under constant harassment from the local anti-aircraft battery. I ask you, who the hell has ever heard of Biggin Hill in connection with anything other than an airport? Apparently, a lot of tossers with nothing better to do than complain about anything and everything. The same types who move to the country and complain about the noise of cockerels and the smell of cow****. The same types who think that anyone who flies must be loaded and, for that reason alone, should be stopped from enjoying themselves.

I now fly, privately, on days off and weekends, from Headcorn. There are numerous villages we have to avoid on take-off and landing because some twats living there don't like the noise (!) of a Gypsy Major on a sunny afternoon. There are flight safety issues here, but I won't bore you with them on this occasion.

Give me a break! If you don't like our noise (the sound of freedom, as our American brethren would say) then don't move next door to an airport. If you choose to buy a house near an airport, then live with your decision and shut the **** up! :mad:

Gywneth Dunwoody today indicated that the govt will not be in any rush to implement this decision which ,as has been pointed out, is not legally binding.

Let the Guardian folk have their 15 minutes of fame after which they will fade into deserved obscurity.The govt is well aware of the implications especially given the state of the industry at the moment. The ruling is actually applicable to all European airports.
I can just see the French shutting CDG overnight.

Ignore these pathetic bedwetters. Better still bombard them with emails. I have.