Police Officer in gun "joke" at MAN
 

From the London "Evening Standard":

"A senior police officer was barred from boarding a plane after joking to airport staff that he had a gun.

Insp John Orr made the comment as officials at Manchester airport searched his hand luggage during increased security checks following the US terror attacks.

When they confiscated a penknife they found in his case, he joked: "Watch it, I've got a gun".

A heated exchange followed in which he produced his warrant card and airline officials eventually called in police, who escorted him from the building.

Insp Orr and his wife Linda were heading for a holiday in Crete and passengers on the flight were held up for 40 minutes as a result of the fracas.

Greater Manchester Police has confirmed that an investigation into the alleged incident was under way.

A police source said: "I'm not sure what comment he made but with the current heightened state of alert any form of comment is inappropriate."

Insp Orr, who works in Greater Manchester Police's traffic division, is now at home on leave while an investigation is carried out."


:mad: :mad: :mad:

Six months in Strangeways would be about right for such asinine behaviour. It doesn't matter who you are, it's an offence under the Aviation and Maritime Security Act to make a false declaration about such matters.

Next case please!

Would you trust his judgement as a Police Officer?

What a crass remark - at any time!!!

Bue esp now!!!!! :mad:


Dunno about Strangeways 4* hotel, but def sack the ******......

What a very stupid man

Is it not clear to pax that such remarks at anytime never mind now, are just a) not funny and b) completely not on.

I may be being naive, but these sort of comments are made frequently by the "joking public" who do see them as "jokes" (God only knows why).

What does it take to get it through their idiotic skulls that this is serious ? I know to the vast majority of the travelling public comments like this are completely crass, but for the minority of idiots can it not be highlighted by bloody big posters at airports if necessary, that comments like this WILL lead to IMMEDIATE arrest and possible banning orders from future flights ??

Or as I say, am I being naive....

As for this policeman, I sincerely hope his superiors throw the bloody book at him !!!

:mad:

Was this guy not in charge of glasgow constabulary at one time or was it someone of the same name ?

Sir John Orr was the Chief Constable of Lothian and Borders Police. Don't think it's the same person!!

I would have thought by now that even us lowly pax, not just Police officers, should know by now that you NEVER joke with airport security/customs officers! They take (and quite rightly too), every comment seriously!

Julian.

Govnor....For once I totally 100% agree with you!
Silly, silly man!
As posted, not the same guy as Sir John Orr. :)
Eff Oh.

I see he worked (or did work) in 'Traffic'. Perhaps that would go some way to explain the mentality behind his little 'joke'.


Regards
Exeng

Have you all lost your sense of proportion? The worst he can be accused of is making an unwise remark out of frustration at having his pen knife confiscated. Hardly a reason for refusing him boarding. I suspect he might be a good man to have on board during an attempted hijack.

Harpy, and what happens when something does kick off on board when all the arses out there are making these crass remarks ?? Security are hardly likely to say "Doh ! Hey guys he wasn't kidding, ****** !"

Yes ok, but when talking of sense of proportions, you don't mess around at airport security, full stop. May seem draconian, but anything less is irresponsible to the remaining pax and crew.

If I was behind this arse or persons like him at security, I wouldn't want to sit next to that type of person on board. His attitude at security would typify him as a complete wan*er anyway. And if as you suggest he was getting arsey and frustrated about having his penknife confiscated in the current climate, what type of idiot are we dealing with here ???

Harpy, couldn't agree with you more. All sense of proportion has disappeared with regards to security. Comments above such as "NEVER joke with security...." "the joking public" etc. play into the hands of jobsworths everywhere whose increased sense of power makes all our lives more miserable.

Let's face it, 99.999999999% of all flights are unaffected by terrorism. All the security in the world wouldn't have helped prevent the recent atrocities. It's just like saying if speed cameras round every corner in the land prevented the loss of just one life it would be worth installing them everywhere. Crap! Life is risky. Without actually banning ban all cars then some people will still be killed on the road, whatever preventive measures you take.

You have to balance the loss of 3,000 odd lives lost on the roads each year in the UK with which society considers acceptable (or else it would ban all cars) against the inconvenience of a disrupted lifestyle.

Same with terrorists. If you rubber-gloved every single passenger going anywhere by air, (leading, incidentally, to a massive reduction in passengers because of the hassle and huge delays, and therefore a lot of us losing our jobs as a direct consequence, which is probably already happening),you still won't be helping to prevent terrorism. These guys aren't just going to say "Fair cop, guv, we'll be nice world citizens from now on", they're going to go on and bomb the crap out of other targets, such as trains, cruise ships and city centres maybe with biological and chemical weapons.

So, following this logic,in the end we'll all be rubber-gloved the minute we step outside our homes. And what do security people know, anyway? After all, it was them telling everyone in the second WTC tower that the building was "secure" and people should return to their desks......

I prefer this sort of puplicity.

Hopefully all the would be thugs that get pissed and shout at the crew with impunity will realise that the game has changed and we are going to play hard ball with anyone who even comes close to threatening our A/c.

The days of air rage resulting in a slap on the wrist at least are over.... hopefully.

If we can get the pax to wind their necks in we shall stand a better chance of telling the difference between them and terrorists.

Gumshoe

Quote:
"If we can get the pax to wind their necks in we shall stand a better chance of telling the difference between them and terrorists."

I don't think so. A hijacker is unlikely to make a joke at a security officer's expense. That would draw attention to him. He will be very well behaved until the moment comes to act.

Julian

Quote:
"I would have thought by now that even us lowly pax, not just Police officers, should know by now that you NEVER joke with airport security/customs officers! They take (and quite rightly too), every comment seriously!
Julian."

Did you know that Customs Officers still bypass security? That IS a joke.

In a former life I worked on a passenger screening point at a terminal in Australia.

This bloke in shorts and a T-shirt sets off the metal detector and I call him over. Wave the wand over him and it goes off about where his buckle would have been. I ask if he has a buckle and he says 'no but I have this' and lifts up his shirt to reveal the butt of a '38 Special sticking out.

I took a half step back and was about to clock the bloke as hard as I could when I notice a bright police badge in my face and his smiling face behind it.

After telling the (off duty) prat what a w@nker he was he started getting uppity and at one stage tried threatening me because I was 'making trouble'.

He quietened down conisderably when I used his name that I had observed on his warrant card and took him around to the front of the machine and showed him the sign where it said that it was an offence to NOT declare those items (and it didn't matter if he was a cop or not).

After explaining the penalty unit system for such a transgression and the fact that he certainly wouldn't be able to be a cop anymore I suggested that he take his funny (also off duty) mate (who had put his bumbag through the x-ray machine with his gun in it and also didn't mention anything about it) and p!ss off before I arrested them!

Some people are just dickheads with too much power!

wonder if anyone needs "evidence" any furriners with a $3 an hour job who takes a dislike to anyone just needs to comment to his buds " HE said Gun" and the poor pax is a dead duck

Extracted from The Manchester Evening News 28-09-2001

Cop Jokes " I've got a bomb"

A POLICE officer caused a security alert at Manchester Airport and was barred from a holiday jet after joking that he had a bomb in his luggage.
Inspector John Orr was told he would not be allowed on the plane after the ''flippant and insensitive'' comment to security staff.

Today, the motorway patrol officer, who has served in Greater Manchester for 28 years, is under investigation by the force.

Airport bosses have branded Insp Orr ''irresponsible'', while a police colleague described his remarks as ''unbelievable'' in light of the terrorist attacks on America.

Police were called to Ringway's Terminal 2 on Tuesday night by a security guard amid claims that Insp Orr, who was heading to Crete with his wife, made a remark about a bomb.

Staff later told bosses that he said: ''I have a bomb in my bag.''

Apology

He apologised for the joke, but was not allowed on the Excel Airways flight to Heraklion.

It is believed the incident occurred at 8.45pm when the officer, a father in his mid-40s, had a verbal exchange with a security guard who found a small penknife when checking his hand-luggage.

It is unlikely that Insp Orr, based at Birch Services near Oldham on the M62, will be charged with a criminal offence, but he could face disciplinary action.

A Ringway insider said: ''He made a flippant and insensitive remark about a bomb. In the current climate it was sheer madness.''

An airport spokeswoman said: ''It is highly irresponsible for anyone to make threats about security while going through airport procedures and, in certain circumstances, false statements about luggage can constitute an offence.''

She added: ''Any remark made by a passenger which suggests a threat to security at the airport is taken seriously.''

Senior officers - said to be furious at the incident - have now been called in to investigate the allegations, which come amid heightened security at Ringway. Last night there was no reply at Insp Orr's home in Tameside.

A senior police officer said: ''It is unbelievable that anyone could find such a remark funny after the terrible tragedy in America.''

A Greater Manchester Police spokesman confirmed: ''An investigation has been launched.''

stupid fool!!

Max - I still stand by my comments, I dont know how you can call security 'jobsworth'! I am sure if a arab guy was stood in front of you in the queue having his penknife confiscated and he said 'Hey I have a bomb too' you would want guy the drag him aside and give in a once over, or maybe he was only joking........

Harpy - Not sure what you mean by your comment, could you expand please.

Julian.

No matter how stupid we think they are, it is a sad fact that there are some people in this World who think it's funny to cause unnecessary worry to others at times like this.

Last Friday evening I was pax'ing TFS-LGW on JMC772L.

After security, whilst waiting to board, my mother (whilst taking my young kids for a pre-flight visit to the loo) spotted a guy
(not Brit, but possibly Continental European)sitting "playing" with a penknife in the departure lounge.

She was quite worried by this, and we decided that we would try to find someone from security/police to tell - trouble was that in the 10 mins we had before boarding we couldn't find anyone!!

In fact, the airport security in TFS seemed no different to normal (no bag searching, no armed police) - which was in complete contrast to what we found on arrival at LGW.

Having said all this - full marks to JMC, who had a polite, but firm lady (just what's needed in the circumstances) advising us all of all the items we needed to remove from our hand baggage if necessary. I'm pleased to report that my fellow pax took it seriously and a lot of them also checked-in bags that they might otherwise have carried on.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the issue is not so much what he said (which in any case makes him a tw@t) but rather the fact that he's one of the thin blue line that's supposed to be protecting us from the bad guys and that he - more than anyone - should be aware that (a) it's not funny and (b) an offence under the Aviation and Maritime Security Act.

I note too that GMP - who are not infrequently a dirty dark grey shade when it comes to matters of honesty and probity - are saying that the officer concerned will not be prosecuted. Why not? I agree that it's a relatively minor thing but in this case it's the principle.

Send him down!

Julian, I think the point Harpy is making is that we might actually all be safer from terrorists planning to hijack an aircraft, if we, the pilots, cabin crew and fare-paying passengers were permitted to carry on to aircraft certain household items such as pen-knives, nail-clippers and syringes which could, in extremis, be used as offensive weapons. I'd personally feel a lot safer knowing most passengers were thus "armed" in the event that a group of nutters on board decided to try to take over the aircraft. At least we've got something to fight with.

I fear that in our feminised and nanny society, it's only the criminals allowed to proceed unhindered, as we've seen recently with the introduction of new gun laws in the UK. All very emotionally correct, though.

Gumshoe, and others who think the pax should "wind their necks in", I cannot think of a more arrogant attitude towards our customers - in case you hadn't noticed, these people directly pay our salaries. Let's face it, as industry "pros" we're all up our own a*ses with the delights of aviation, but it will probably come as a shock to you that most people find flying one of the least pleasant ways of travelling, uncomfortable and de-humanising as it is. A lot of flyers are about to lose their jobs in the coming slump and we need to keep every customer we can. Your attitude does not help.

Max Cont'
I don't think there NEEDS to be a 'sense of proportion' in these cases. Aviation is a bloody serious buisiness and anyone who can't except that should p*** off. Even if they do directly pay the wages. If anyone can't see that to make a joke of the "I've got a gun/bomb" nature isn't going to seriously upset everyone concerned then they're a compete idiot. Who needs it?
Incidently, when I was out in Melbourne, Florida, at the beginning of this year, when I got to the airport there was a DC-9 or MD80 of Spirit Airlines sitting on the end of the runway with all the doors open (no slides) and a lot of emergency and airport police around it. Turned out that during the taxi one of the pax said to his neibour "I've got a bomb in my bag." Delayed the aircraft by about two hours. I bet the other pax and the crew (and anyone else effected) didn't have much sense of proportion left afterwards.

Max
Glad someone at last has raised the issue of paxs' reactions. Flying is for the majority of people a nail biting experience and increased security, essential as it is, doesn't help. I speak as someone who refuses to drive from Scotland to any of the other big cities in the UK because of the mayhem on the motorway system and refuses to use trains because of their unreliabilty, I take coaches instead and use taxis. I've also cancelled two non-business jaunts since WTC....one to Los Angeles and one to Portugal....I don't need the hassle of three hour check-ins and hanging about crowded airsides bored witless (s***less?). Admittedly I'd have a hell of a job finding a Scotland-Lax or Scotland-Lisbon coach service service but what the hell there are other things to do . Airline Marketing people ....note. And watch what the take up of RyanAir's £10 go-anywhere offer is.

Regards
PeterJ :confused:

If that was anybody else they would have had them in court already,yet this guy is ONLY on leave......throw away the Key and make sure an example is made :mad: :mad: :mad:

I have "heard" that a "furriner", aka an American did the same....and got 18 months at HMP! :D Perhaps,,,,,, :rolleyes:
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy

Perhaps the reason he hasn't been charged is that he hasn't committed an offence. It's not yet a crime to make a flippant remark. And we don't know whether the security officer provoked the remark by an excess of officiousness. Some of them (but by no means all) are very officious.

And how did the gentlemen of the press get his name? Could it be that a security officer made a nice little earner?


Julian.

I meant that H M Customs are not required to go through security when they go airside. That makes a joke of a security regime that confiscates miniature pen knives and nail files from pilots. If a pilot can't be trusted, should we trust a Customs Officer?

Actually Harpy, as The Guv says(about the only time I've ever agreed with anything he's said) it is an offence.

I hope he din't speed through a camera on the way home, otherwise he might have to forget who was actually driving the car. No wait that was another senior police officer.

Am I correct in my understanding that at all UK airports, neither local airport security staff, customs personnel or uniformed police officres, are subject to any of the security measures and checks at all.

fudpucker

If it is an offence, would you mind if I ask you to quote me line and verse from the relevant statute?

I hope you're wrong, perhaps we're not as free as I thought.

kaikohe76 you are not correct. At least not where Gatwick is concerned. At Gatwick all the flatfoots go through the security checks and then all of their knives, guns and other weapons are handed back to them.

Its a funny old world!

Harpy, try section 21a of the Aviation and Maritime Security Act.

False statements relating to baggage, cargo etc.

21A. — (1) Subject to subsection (3) below, a person commits an offence if, in answer to a question which—
(a) relates to any baggage, cargo or stores (whether belonging to him or to another) that is or are intended for carriage by a civil aircraft registered or operating in the United Kingdom, and
(b) is put to him for purposes to which this Part of this Act applies— (i) by any of the persons mentioned in subsection (2) below, (ii) by any employee or agent of such a person in his capacity as employee or agent, or (iii) by a constable,he makes a statement which he knows to be false in a material particular, or recklessly makes a statement which is false in a material particular.
..........................................
(4) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (1) above shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale

[ 28 September 2001: Message edited by: newswatcher ]

Newswatcher

As far as we are aware, the remark by the passenger was not in answer to a question. This might seem like hair-splitting but, in law, hair-splitting is allowed. No one has suggested that it was anything other than a joke, possibly in answer to an officious security officer. If I am ever hijacked, I would rather have him on board than the security officer who reported him.

Harpy & Max Cont' - Are you serious? you both sound incredibly stupid to me! I would not hesitate to offload any pax that made any hoax type comments - even before the tragedies in New York and Washington; yet to do so after these events is crass in the extreme - I hope never to have to rely on your judgement ever. :rolleyes: :eek: :confused:

I have to agree with that last posting.

When I was PV'ed, I was warned not to make any "joking" responses to anything. What I said had to be taken at face value.

The same goes here. There are no jokes in Aviation Security. There is nothing funny about having a gun or a bomb on board an aircraft. This policeman should have known better, and should have displayed better judgement. If, as captain, I knew about such an incident, and was asked if I was willing to carry him, my answer would have been firmly in the negative.

Perhaps we can understand why he is only a traffic cop.

To detain someone under the Aviation & Maritime act the 'person' concerned must say his 'alleged' comment twice. In this case Mr.Orr said his unfortunate remark to the security officer, who then asked him what he had said and Mr.Orr,alleegedly and stupidly repeated his remark. The Police were called and Mr.Orr was detained.
To say it once was stupid, to say it twice, in his position,beggars belief....

Insensitive? Yes
Stupid? Yes
Deserved to be offloaded/arrested/charged? No
Bollocked publically/privately? Yes

For many people going to their two weeks in the sun is the only time they are on an aircraft. We have no idea what was actually said and the tone it was said in. As well as being demob happy he may well have had a couple of beers. As most pax check their brains in with their luggage he probably spoke first then thought later.

Would the same fuss have been made if his occupation was different?

Gaza,
No, it would not make any differece if he had had a different job. 3-4 times a year at MAN people are "done" for this sort of remark, and there have been at least one "holiday" courtesy HMP
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy

Out Of Trim

Yes I am serious. It wasn't a hoax. He didn't attempt to deceive the security officer into believing he had a gun. He made a flippant remark, possibly under provocation. He didn't expect to be taken seriously.

We won't combat the hijack menace by cowing the passengers before they get on the aeroplane. We might even make it easier for the hijackers. Our best defence against the sort of hijacks we have seen recently is the passenger who is prepared to speak up and if necessary take action to help us. So in the unlikely event I find myself in the dire position the pilots found themselves in on 11th, the more passengers like Mr Orr down the back the better.

I am not saying we should tolerate disruptive behaviour. I would like to see the courts deal far more severely with it than they do. But I hope I have enough common sense to distinguish between real disruption and an unfortunate remark born of frustration.

And if some bright spark at DTLR thinks he's improving security by confiscating nail files from pilots, he's taking his salary under false pretences.