Aer Lingus Pilot suspended in hub dispute
 

Taken from http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/1009/aerlingus.html

Tuesday, 9 October 2007 16:17

Four pilots have been suspended in their dispute with Aer Lingus management over the new Belfast hub.

The suspensions follow the refusal by pilots to co-operate with this morning's deadline to begin training new staff for the Belfast operation.

30 other pilots who had an optional extra duty of training new recruits are now resigning from that function.

A spokesman for Aer Lingus said the pilots were appointed to the role as instructors and the company would not accept partial resignation of responsibilities.

The suspension follows the refusal by the pilot to co-operate with this morning's 10am deadline set by the airline to begin training new staff for the Belfast operation.

It is understood they are to resign from this duty to avoid the prospect of being suspended on full pay.

Up to 30 Aer Lingus pilots face the prospect of being suspended without pay if they fail to help recruit new staff.

Management says pilots are expected to help select and train new staff to fly on routes from Belfast in two months' time.

Earlier, the Taoiseach Bertie Ahern urged management and unions to sit down with each other and try to resolve the issues together.

Speaking to journalists following an address to IBEC's annual HR summit in Dublin, Mr Ahern said both sides should understand that it is in their best interest to do this.

Mr Ahern acknowledged that there are problems within Aer Lingus, but he said the lesson of the last 20 years on social partnership is that it is about working together and this is the best way to resolve any problems.

He urged both sides to use internal dispute resolution mechanisms if possible.
However, he added that if they need help from the broader industrial relations machinery of the State, then it would be happy to help.

The Aer Lingus Chief Executive, Dermot Mannion, has said he hopes sense will prevail and that the company's pilots will carry out their normal duties.

He claimed the company had delivered a solution to the impasse by creating a mechanism for pilots from the Republic who want to move to Northern Ireland to do so.

The onus, he added, is now very much on the pilots union IALPA to respond to that today, in good faith, and to allow members carry on their duties.

Management says pilots are expected to help select and train new staff to fly on routes from Belfast in two months' time.

Pilots are objecting to some of the terms and conditions for the new staff. The new pilots will not have as good a pension as their colleagues in the Republic.
The Irish Airline Pilots Association has said it wants to hold further talks on the issue. Management has said it has done enough talking and needs to recruit pilots for the Belfast operation immediately.

If pilots refuse to help recruit new staff they face suspension. The association representing pilots meets this evening to decide on their official position.

No matter what spin management put on it, it seems to me that this is effectively a withdrawal from discussions with the union. Management cannot ignore existing industrial agreements and expect the union members to help them do so. Management's bullish attitude here is staggering.

So there are still pilots left out there flying EI reg aircraft with cojones. Men, not mice. Good luck from the blue team pilots, we could use some of your type.

Time to bring the company to it's knees lads. One out should signify all out. You have my support from one of your competitors.

Currently doing my IR, with the hope of flying for EI soon enough, it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling to read that you guys who can make a difference at EI, are doing so.

Credit where credit is due to the guy(gal?) who has been suspended, and all those others who are acting, for having the balls to stand up and be one of the people fighting for colleauges that not only they probably haven't met yet, but those of us who are not even finished their training!

It is my impression, correct me if I am wrong, that unless these pilots decide to be based at belfast, that these new conditions do not even affect them. Yet they are willing to put their jobs on the line for others.

It makes it seem that this constant beans on toast (without butter, thats a luxury!) lifestyle may have a point to it after all!

Pilots that have resigned additional duties
 

I understand that 30+ pilots have resigned from additional duties, does this mean that they have resigned from training duties etc. If so where does this leave the guys that are already on line and may be just renewing their LPC/OPC? Does EI have an A320 sim in Dublin? :confused:

RTE now reporting that four pilots have been suspended.

Yes EI does have a A320 sim at Dublin Airport.

I assume then that they do all their own initial / recurrent in Dublin, so if all the T.R.E.'s have(not confirmed) resigned their training commands, they will be unable to use another TRTO immediately to renew any LPCs.

Even if an agreement is reached, each day of recurrent training missed is going to effect the upcoming schedules.

Right, everybody out. It's about time this bunch of management :mad: were shown how an airline operates with no pilots.

Huge respect to the lads for standing their ground, hopefully this will open some eyes and lead to some pairs of balls being grown amongst the ranks at ryanair.

There is only one bloke at Ryanair with any balls, and he isn't a pilot...

who the hell is that then?! you guys who have stood up to it and walked away have got my respect.

"Right, everybody out. It's about time this bunch of management were shown how an airline operates with no pilots."

Probably about as well as a money losing airline with no management. Mick O' what his name at the other place must be having a large double tonight. The EI pilots are making him a shed load of cash.
20pilot
(I'd post the picture of the Eastern guys holding the newpaper saying "We Won" the day Eastern shut down but I can't find it)

According to Redout "Up to 30 Aer Lingus pilots face the prospect of being suspended without pay if they fail to help recruit new staff."

And the HR department is going to take over flying duties?

What is the legal position. I'm a TRE(Aus Sim C&T) and I was always led to believe this was an extra responsibility hence the extra loading. This loading not subject to pension/super as pension a % of basic. Here in Aus you are free to drop C&T anytime you want to. Worked in UK for a long time and that was always the case with them. Any legal types out there?

This is serious s**t.

There is obviously a deliberate (instructed?) avoidance of public discussion of this situation by the parties involved - ie no EI crew response to this thread...

From an outsiders POV it seems mgmt are trying to create a doomsday scenario.

I hope the drivers have cool nerves. :suspect:

DM's open letter to pilots
 

Quote:
CEO letter to all Aer Lingus Pilots

Re: Belfast Base Start Up

Further to my letter of Monday 8th October 2007, as you are aware Aer Lingus is establishing a base in Belfast on 10th December 2007. In order to ensure that this base is set up on time and to the highest standards, that are the hallmark of Aer Lingus, it is crucial that this base is set up with the unreserved cooperation of all Aer Lingus Pilots. In order to meet this requirement, we request that you contact Crew Control by 1pm on Monday 15th October 2007, to confirm your willingness to engage unreservedly in any or all of the following duties as may be required:
Flying with the newly hired recruits in order to familiarise them with Aer Lingus Standard Operating Procedures
Attend any training courses that you may be required to attend relevant to this endeavour
Any other duties relevant to your post as a Pilot, that may be required and requested of you by Aer Lingus
For those who hold Instructional or other special qualifications and are in receipt of an allowance in this regard:


the screening, assessment, interviewing and appraisal of candidates for the Belfast base.
the instruction, training and checking of successful candidates before they commence flying in Belfast
Any work that is required with respect to the legalities of operating a base from the UK
If you choose not to confirm your willingness, you can put forward in writing, to be received no later than 1pm on Monday 15th October 2007, reasons why you choose not to do so. Please note that your trade union may respond on your behalf should you so wish. Such correspondence should be addressed to Peter O'Neill, Head of Operations and Crew Planning, 4th Floor Tech Building, Dublin Airport.

It is important that you understand that if you fail to confirm your willingness to unreservedly engage in your full range of duties, by 1pm on Monday 15th October 2007 you will be suspended from the payroll from 3am on Tuesday 16th October 2007.

Dermot Mannion
CEO
10th October 2007

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is now a very serious situation; it seems to me that DM is trying deliberately to provoke the pilot corps and it would appear to me that IALPA is likely to call the airline's bluff on this and as Evan Cullen said, see how long EI operates without pilots. This becomes a lockout situation; what then?

Certainly no sympathy as govt level; Bertie called for both sides to sit down and talk, EI responds like this. Would be surprised if govt would be sad to see back of DM, especially after being dropped in the "you know what" over the whole SNN-LHR thing. (I know it's not the only s/h now, but can't see other shareholders being too happy either).

Bets on DM still being CEO at the end of next week?

:uhoh::confused::eek:

I just don't understand Mannion's game plan. As I understand things, and do correct me if I'm wrong, earlier this year staff morale was very high, everyone was generally happy and proud of doing their EI duties, and the company was profitable and planning expansion. Now, through management's own volition, they have alienated their flight crew, almost forced them into strike action, costing the company money in the process, and are now prepared to suspend them all from duty if they don't accept a situation which is a) part of an unresolved negotiation process and b) in breach of existing industrial agreements with, no doubt, further loss of money??

Awaiting further developments with breath most very bated...

Spoke to a former colleague of mine yesterday in the know and yes you are correct in your above statement. A blanket ban has been agreed by the pilots on discussing the situation in public on this and other websites.

Situation is very serious. One has to repect the wishes of the people involved and I will not get into a speculation game.

From rte.ie this morning

Aer Lingus heading for shutdown?
Thursday, 11 October 2007 10:34
More pilots are expected to be suspended today in the dispute between Aer Lingus and the Impact trade union.
The airline has set a deadline of 1pm on Monday for all pilots to co-operate with its new base in Belfast. If they do not write back confirming their willingness to perform functions to help get the new Belfast base operational they face the suspensions without pay from 3am on Tuesday. So far five pilots have been suspended.
Pilots have described the Aer Lingus threat as madness and an attempt to shut the airline.
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In the absence of negotiations the airline would seem to be sliding towards the prospect of suspending its 480 pilots.
Management will have to decide whether to shut the airline or charter aircraft to carry some passengers.

Quite right, but then the company was floated on the stock exchange and the puppet master got his hands on 29.8% of the shares. No points for guessing who is pulling the strings.
Perhaps MOL will take over!::cool:

Lots of respect for the guys fighting for their colleaugues T&C's :ok::ok::ok:

DM obviously spent too long in the sandpit and has forgotten about the "union" concept:rolleyes:

The writing was on the wall for the demise of the 'union concept' many years ago, but of course not noticed much at the time.
With the new 'open borders' in the EU, it would be possible to simply replace the unionized pilots and hire new ones...in fact, this may well be the case...eventually.
Expensive in the short term, cost effective in the long, perhaps.
Terms and conditions?
Don't expect much improvement...and look no further than the 'other' Irish airline for confirmation
And then we have MOL in the wings, and with the latest ruling that he cannot be forced to sell his shares, expect more of his 'behind the scenes' manipulating, so quite frankly, the unionized pilots at Aer Lingus really don't stand all that much of a chance...and they can expect no help from the IAA either, as that agency is right and truly in managements pocket.
Sorry boys, the deck is stacked in the companies favor, like it or not.

411A,

Here we have, for the first time in a long time, A pilots union, being just that, it is disappointing that you are already the harbinger of doom and gloom.

Good luck guys and gals, nice to see you have the guts to stand up for those not yet in the company:D. Hope it gets resolved soon. Win and MOL might just lose interest.:ok:

The only way the pilots can co-operate in a new base is with training. But obviously, like in any airline, most of the pilots are not qualified to train. So looks like they're all gonna get suspended for not doing something they couldn't do anyway. Sheer bloody madness.

ASFKAP, 411a is absolutely right, the IAA is in management pockets and will be no help. That agency has zero interest in standards and safety.

Rumour has it a senior EI manager was booted in the last few days for passing inside information to ryanair. One wonders who else at the top of EI is on micko's payroll. As DM continues to play into micko's hands, it doesn't seem beyond the bounds of possibility that traitors abound.

Once again, good luck to the boys in green. Industry wide unity of this sort would sort out the decline in T&C's very quickly. Respect.

What great courage and honour the susspended pilots are showing!!!:D
We are all with you!!!
I SAY ONE OUT ALL OUT!!!
VIVA BETTER WORKING CONDITIONS FOR ALL PILOTS!!!!!
Just hope the company survives though:}

411A
You are well off the mark here I'm afraid. Simply put, there is no way that Irish pilots with the national airline will be 'simply replaced' with cheap labour from elsewhere, open borders or otherwise. I do agree with your assessment of the IAA however.

White Knight
Spot on, the Tim Clarke school of management shining through here by the looks of things.

WALK TALL men in green :ok:

Remember, the threat of just that was one of the factors that started this mess off in the first place. Nothing to stop EI operating Dublin flights with cheaper Belfast based crew = Dublin crew get laid off. It'd be almost another Irish Ferries scenario, except with zero public support for the pilots.

(And on a minor point, EI is the national airline only in our heads. In reality it's just another business now).

DrKev

Lets hope not, they lost my vote over the Irish ferries scandal, for what it was worth....
I'm still proud of our national airline even though it may be 'just another business' now, and my gut feeling is that they will weather this storm hopefully.
It will be a sad day for all of us when patriotism rides off on the back of the Euro.

In the mean time lads good luck and WALK TALL.:ok:

As a former employee of the airline and experienced first hand the last major showdown between the pilots and old management which resulted in the closure of the airline for the best part of a long weekend.... I truly hope the pilots BRING THEM TO THEIR KNEES!!! OK, I may not get home from LHR next week after work but Ill gladly suffer the inconvenience while Mannion squirms.

What really annoys me about this new management is the way the company rather blatantly airs its dirty laundry on its own website!!!

Why does it seem that so many airlines have such lousy managment!
Q: What is easier to find, a handfull beancounters or 480 quallified pilots? Good luck guys!

no title :-)
 

how about (harsh i know) agreeing to BFS with mgmt and commence trng newbies,but failing everybody that makes it tru the recruitment ban?

i know it is very tough and harsh on anybody who applies and is sucessful,but anyone aspiring to join EI would be well aware of the situation there at the mo and i hope would not be stupid to apply and be subjected to that.

lots of good guys there who i have alot of respect for and wish them the best, its something that when i was in RYR i never saw=unity and respect for eachother and themselves.

ASFKAP,

Me thinks you're pretty close to hitting the nail on the head. The other side of the coin is: Where do the pilot's go from here if they are seen to climb down? The past decade has seen them make sacrifices to safeguard their and the company's future. Agreements reached on that basis have been subsequently, conveniently, ignored by management. At the moment AL seems to be enjoying the curse of modern management who seem hell bent on p!$$ing away all the coimmitment, professionalism, good-will inherent in its workforce.

The buck has to stop somewhere. My fear is that, in the current impasse, everyone loses. God help us, as a member of the travelling public .... the alternative is Blue!

First, Capt Ted C, your post reeks of naivety...

Second, it has emerged that EI mgmt are prepared for a total shut down in operations of up to two months during this dispute.

It seems that EI mgmt are determined to break with the past at whatever cost.

Others should watch this as no doubt their mgmt are...:sad:

How long can an airline survive grounded? I thought it would be a matter of days not weeks before it went flop?

As far as I can see, AL was doing pretty well just a few months ago. Quite a few A320's and 2 A330's on order as well as a sound balance sheet.
So it's down to the pilots to fight for equal T's and C's within the company. I don't see anything wrong with that . . . do you? At least they are not sitting around like old ASFCAP and accepting any old pile of sh*t thrown at them by management :yuk:

Then on the other hand it is down to Mr Mannion and the pen pushers and been counters. The ones who are willing to close down the company over something that could have been so easily resolved, ie. ensuring that pilots throughout the company have equal T's and C's. I am sure it would not have been detramental to the company if this simple principal of ensuring equal T's and C's were to be upheld in Belfast? If you can't ensure equal T's and C's when oppening a new base then don't bother opening a new base.

Immagine if Nelson Mandella just sat around and accepted everything apparteit threw at him. Immagine if pilots just sat around and took every pile of sh*t thrown at them?

Mannion and his team can be easily replaced, loads of bean counters in this world, but the Pilots are hard to come by.

All the best to the Pilots who are standing up for their rights. I am sure Nelson Mandela would cheer you guys on!:D

Have been watching this develop through the HKG smog. It appears that Dermot Mannion has decided to go for a make or break. The one chink in his armour is the huge portion of the Dublin Airport workforce that lives in the Irish Prime Ministers home constituency. He can close EI for a few weeks, but Mr Ahearn will draw a swift blade across DMs throat when his loyal voters are left sitting staring at empty Xmas Stockings. Its all OK now Dermot, but Irish politics run deep, the sun in that sandpit overstewed your noodles, they are gone a bit soft.

To the Crews at EI, I hope you will stand firm.

Good luck guys!

I do hope sannity will prevail and management will offer the same T&C to all.

:ok::ok::ok::ok: