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1-2-GO, Thai Orient again.
Todays BKK Post reports:-
"Another One-Two-Go flight from Bangkok to Hat Yai yesterday had a minor crash landing, but the pilot managed to control the aircraft. One of the plane's lights and air-conditioning control panels fell on top of a passenger and oxygen masks also dropped down, airport officials said." Minor maybe but what a Micky Mouse outfit it seems to be! :bored: |
At least the incident was reported, here is a statement from the president of Orient Thai
"Udom Tantiprasongchai, president of Orient Thai Airlines, operator of the One-Two-Go budget airline, said he had received a report on yesterday's incident which said the pilot had to make a crash landing on the runway to ensure the wheels firmly touched down":eek: |
Firm touchdown on a wet runway taken out of context by overzealous journalists...maybe???
In old machines like they fly even a not too bad landing might release a few oxy masks due to their plastic clips being fairly worn from age. |
I'll have to remember that the next time I need my "wheels firmly touched down". Does that muppet for a president know anything about aviation?
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I expect he is trying to say "firm landing" in not his mother tongue. I expect even NG Kaptain has done one of those.
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A few emamples.
Here are a few well documented OX incidents.
Engine cowling tears off 757 engine over africa MD82 suffers full pressurisation failure on way back from HKG not once but twice. Many pilots refuse to fly one MD saying it is unsafe. 747-200 narrowly misses a 330 departing HKG due altitude bust endangering nearly 700 lives. 757 leading edge flap departs the plane enroute HKT to BKK. 747 engine seen by pilot shooting forward like a missile on takeoff out of azores......I could go on and on.......... |
LOL to Gullyone... I've done many firm landings on wet and dry runways, but my boss never had to make a press release saying that I "crashed landed" to ensure that the wheels firmly touched down.:)
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The Reverend N...
I was on that flight out of the Azores.....it did not really "shoot forward like a missle" on takeoff, but it did go BANG!!! That was one of the 5 engine failures/shutdowns i experienced on the 747 with OX....:rolleyes: dont' forget the 1 meter square piece of upper wing surface that "popped" off the left wing of a -100...there is a picture on the web somewhere? I was also on the first MD-82 service (jumpseat) to CNX....never got airborne due to a left HYD system failure...dumped all the fluid....:( I also remember the pilots refusing to fly the MD due to "unable to rotate the aircraft"....one maybe two takeoffs were aborted out of the old BKK...upon reaching VR, nothing happened...! :ugh: Then there was the 757 that had several engine flame-out's....usually on final....? :ooh: There is a well known "actual" story in OX where one MD when tech due engine problems in Chiang Rai....Udom requested that "they" ferry back to BKK on.....wait for it................ONE ENGINE!! (I kid you not!!) :eek: or should I mention the famous "2 crew" L1011 out of HKT for BKK....:cool: How about the techlogs....they would make a great fiction novel....:} Though there were some good guys in maintenance (good background experience), they were never given the recources to fix anything...if you had a problem, on the next flight, it had moved to the other side of the panel, or wing depending on the problem? :uhoh: We had a starter break on a JT9D one night going to ICN....having replaced a starter or two on a JT9D, it is not a difficult procedure. A truck turned up with a big box in the back...they pulled it out (by the spline, where the big yellow placard said you shoud not lift from) and could not figure out why it would not fit? On closer inspection, they were trying to fit a CF6 starter to a P&W....:D again...the list goes on and on! None of the above has been "dramatised"....this stuff actually happened...and I dread to think of what has gone of since? Thankfully, I can say that these are all in my past. My thoughts go out to those who lost their lives last Sunday and the cabin crew, more than anyone, who ride down the back, not fully knowing or understanding the shortcuts the company takes to keep those aircraft flying. Stay safe and steer clear of OX :ok: |
Baccara Bar
b747heavy is correct on all points. Udom does not look for experience or professionalism but only looks for the cheapest pilots he can find. No training, no inhouse procedures.
Once the Chief Pilot there refused to fly a B747 to HKG and back simply because of massive rust under the Aft Bulk Hold. He then arranged for another aircraft to come up from Phuket in the morning to do the HKg return and when he went to work that morning, the rusted aircraft was flown to HKG that night by a Philipino Captain. Why would he do that? Because if he doesn't do it Udom would sack him and he simply could not find a job anywhere else. The joke then became that they fix nothing, just replace the Captain. Once another Filipino Captain signed two manual loadsheets where both the ZFW and T/O weights were well forward of the envelope. He signed both loadsheets and took off. All the Farangs left there by frustration with the lousiest maintenace ever seen, dangerous planes and the quality of most flight crew is the lowest you will ever see. So take a wild wild guess why many of the flight crew from paces like Indonesia and the Philipines have been there for many years. So here is OX's new motto. If you want to die Go fly Orient Thai |
Having recently moved back to Asia, I read these posts with a lot of concern. I have recently booked a flight on Air Asia to BKK. Price is right, but, what price safety?
Any thoughts? |
I suggest you fly CX, MH or SQ
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Regulatory authorities
One of the biggest concerns is the complicity or incompetence of the regulatory authorities, and it is not confined to Thailand, as we all know. Until and unless this problem is addressed, rather than being glossed over, lives will continue to be lost unecessarily and the much sought after reduction in airline accidents will elude us.
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Wasn't that China Airlines 747 that broke apart in midair a few years back on its last flight before going to Orient Thai?
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Bushveld
Air Asia is fine, as is Jetstar too, these are examples of good loco's in the region. |
Yes
"Wasn't that China Airlines 747 that broke apart in midair a few years back on its last flight before going to Orient Thai"
Orient Thai were so lucky at first |
"Air Asia is fine so is jetstar too"
rmac, Couldn't agree more re Jetstar (and Tiger for that matter) but AA?? This is the outfit that had 6 runway excursions in one year but had only ONE safety report filed by their crews!! Give me a break!! Why do you think they have so many Indonesian Captains?? Just like One 2 Go? With AA it's only a matter of time, well-proven by history unfortunately. |
I remember lining up on 21R a few years back in BKK.....out the front we could see tire skid marks from a single bogie (737) main gear, most likely the right gear, deaparting the runway to the right, passing OVER a runway light, then turning left back onto the runway and heading off down the strip..:}
Story at the time was an AA 737...bad spool up of the engines...lost control...off the runway....made it back on and continued the takeoff :ooh: Just a story at the time, but it seemed to fit the mould of AA ops at the time...the marks left behind looked like it was hone hell of a ride? :rolleyes: Heavy :ok: |
No Pilot Speaking
To my count AirAsia is flying more sectors and carrying more passengers than all other combined LCC in Far East and to my knowledge they never had a hull loss or injuries...yes they have a history of delays, however I believe they have also one of the youngest fleet compared to any LCC or legacy carrier (maybe excluding SQ). Regarding the bashing of the indonesia pilots, may I remind that the CI a/c that crashed in HKG in high winds was piloted by an Italian (oh..by the way I am Italian too). Regards |
HKG CAD not checking out Orient Thai
On a recent seminar with HKG CAD the question was asked about Orient thai and there HKG operation.
Question posted was do you ever check there clapped out 747-300 which night stops every night. Reply from CAD. ( can quote name) we can only audit Thai ...Why not Orient thai was the reply. Basically we will upset diplomatic relations between HKG and Thailand. |
Noddys Car...
You have got to be kidding me...??? :ugh: Diplomatic Relations my a$$! The question was asked of the Thai DCA one bright sunny day in BKK....."show me the regulation that states that!!"...refering to an issue occuring at the time... The answer from the DCA was in document format....The TG FOM! It was dropped off at the office, to the then DFO and it even had the "DCA copy" sticker on the front! :suspect: As far as the DCA was concerned, the TG FOM was the rule book! In all of my sectors BKK/HKG with OX, I never once witnesed the CAD onboard! I had heard of it, but it was a desktop "audit"...IDIOTS!!! :{ If only they knew...? :mad: Should OX have a major screw up in HKG, I want to be a fly on the wall in the CAD to watch the finger pointing! :} That reminds me, there was the 3 engine ferry from HKG to BKK....they had not received approval from HKG CAD or Thai DCA...the crew motored teh dead engine to simulate a "start" then pushed and ferried to BKK :eek: Anyway, enough ranting for today! Stay safe all :ok: Heavy |
Dis-Orienthai'd
I don't think the JCAB in Japan is too worried about diplomatic relations.
These guys are banned from Japanese airpsace following a near successful attempt to take out Tokyo Tower about 3 years back on a late night 747 charter positioning flight into Haneda 16L. |
Originally Posted by Noddys car
(Post 3598505)
Reply from CAD. ( can quote name) we can only audit Thai ...Why not Orient thai was the reply.
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I for one would not touch OX with a bargepole after reading this thread. Are there any of you pilots/cabin crew out there who would use their services?
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A letter of remiss? Is Udom & Namthon complicit as well?
For those you who are interested in the rot & corruption of this mickey mouse outfit, have alook at this letter that was posted on another website. (Apologies to the author, but it is so relevent to the discussion here, I copied and pasted it, but have also included the link at the bottom).,
One must bear in mind that a Post Holder/s in the Company has a responsibility to ensure a discharge of a level a safety that is at least the minimum set down by the regulator. Have they done so? If this letter is anything to go by I seriously doubt it. Hi Herb, You may have read about the crash of a MD82 in Phuket, Thailand, yesterday. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070917/...nd_plane_crash My friend, C.M. (who wrote the email below) used to fly as co-pilot with me on the B727 for Express One out of Dallas. He currently is a training captain on the MD82 for the same airline (One-Two-Go Airlines) who just had the crash. I thought his email may be of interest to you. Glyn ===================== Hi Glyn Thank you for the note. Yes am ok, but when all the facts come out, like most crashes it will be found it was totally unnecessary but was destined to happen. The captain was an Indonesian who was the chief pilot. I had almost brought him to a physical altercation on several occasions with my taunting of him. I was highly critical of him for allowing and promoting the incredible abuse of duty and flight time limitations. (1300 to 1500 hours flying calendar year 2006) Guys flying 130 hours per month. Work schedules of 9 straight days and sometimes more. I would go up to him and ask him to sign a document (blank sheet of paper) saying company asked me to fly illegally again. I told them I would as soon as he would sign the papers allowing it. It drove him nuts. I kept doing it. The man had failed his medical recently and was grounded for two months. He must have suffered from low blood sugar because all my First Officers would complain or laugh that he would always fall asleep in the afternoon flights. Apparently he recognized this and asked to be scheduled for early morning flights. The crash occurred at 3:40 pm. The flight controls had to be taken from him on at least two occasions. One highly documented case occurred with the prime minister of Afghanistan on board. A safety pilot had observed his incompetence, reported the incident to company and he was removed from all subsequent flights with the prime minister. I laugh at my fellow Indonesian pilots. Of course they come to his defense in this crash with the words that "it was an act of God". Maybe they are right.... God says you want to be a dumb sh*t, you deserve to die. Glyn... he killed 3 very close friends of mine and I will never forgive him and I am not sure I can forgive myself. My only real purpose here was to teach the new Thai F/O s how to save their lives from people like Arief. Of the new Thai First Officers, Montri was the best. [Montri died in this crash] In fact Montri had just been hired by Thai Airlines with a class date in October. Montri had been particularly emotionally abused by this company. They did not really receive good instruction coming out of the simulators. He sat for two months before he did his bounces in the plane and he failed the first time. The company took 20,000 baht each month out of his paycheck to pay the costs incurred for a second set of bounces in the plane. Glyn, I could go on and on with the terrible abuses that go on here. Me, I was and am physically and emotionally spent. I live everyday not knowing if the next day I will be fired. I have been told I am special here. I do not work illegally or knowingly fly unsafe airplanes. Working with the new pilots have been fun and gratifying. I share stories and lessons I learned from you. For me you re enforced cockpit discipline and attention to detail that I still carry with me. Many times when I go to the MEL, my thoughts go to you and how you illustrated the importance to refer to it every single time regardless. I thank you and others for what you have taught me. I have no doubt that the mental preparation and discipline that you and others illustrated to me and I learned from has saved my own life. I thank you so very much. Sorry for writing so much. Last night was long and these are the first moments I have had to myself. Much crying and pain here. Cabin crewmembers besides themselves, pleading me to go and bring their crewmembers back. It is a very helpless feeling. Everyone here knows my feelings and that which I have been expressing for two years. 1 week ago I had been interviewed by two representatives from ICAO and had expressed to them that all of the ingredients for a disaster here had manifested itself. Yet I and nobody could do a stupid thing to stop it. Not sure what I will do from here Glyn, but I will always feel that I failed.... again. I leave it upto you to decide. I know what I think! I hope the inquiry reveals the depth of corruption and deception that appears in this letter and those other incidences that have already been quoted earlier in this thread. Udom and Namthon, a question for you both. How do you sleep at night? This will always be with you. May They rest in peace. |
Bob Hawke
Your post above is neither your own opinions to be challenged, nor rumors or news. If you personaly wish to denigrate an organization or society at least have the decency to stand by your own words and experiences and not point to trash websites |
Non pilot speaking
Now I will be trashed by everyone...anyway I feel I must write the following. Could you explain me why pilots are working for Orient Thai if the company is so reckless and abusive. Just a google search of "aircraft pilot shortage in asia" gave thousands of links... If the company is so bad, leave and get a new job, seems there is no shortage of jobs for qualified pilots... Cheers |
FrequentSLF,
To me it seems that most good pilots have left the outfit and they have been hiring many pilots not suited for the job. Pilots that canīt get a job elsewhere. The fact that you have managed to obtain a CPL (Commercial Pilot License) doesnīt mean that you are able to safely pilot a passenger jet, even if not an emergency. The checkride for CPL is done in a small twin engine aircraft (piston) which is easy to fly and the tests are not difficult. |
lomapaseo, if that is not rumour or news then what is ????:ugh:
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lomapaseo, if that is not rumour or news then what is ???? It's akin to my posting an article on this board which I saw on Myspace.com that said that you are a liar, a cheat and a womanizer. (don't blame me I'm only the messenger) :) |
I read that on the EVA pilots forum www.nankantraz.org
Dont know if the letter is entirely credible though. But it sure sounds like a scary outfit. |
lomapaseo,
How pathetic your statement is! Of course I have "direct" experience. I damn well know what goes on, and this letter says it all. Been there, done that, and got out. You want to be part of the smoke screen? You want to make trashy statements about denigrating a society or organisation?You are way off the mark Mister! Why don't you move to Mynmar, I'm sure you'll be a success there. The facts will speak for themselves and if the investigators do a decent job of checking the company and its operations, all shall be revealed. This letter highlights what it's like and I have a copy of another letter from another OT pilot that says similar things, written 2 years ago, and another 3 years ago. I know the pilots concerned. OT have known for along time these problems, they have chosen not to address them, and in the opinion of aforementioned letter, there is delibirate culture being fostered to avoid regulatory responsibilities. Organisational pathagen is the term, if you must know, and it is a crucial factor in Human Factors analysis of most accidents. So whilst you feel "offended" about the letter denigrating some farcical misguided concept of yours, how about getting hard nosed about the surrounding issues that lead to the crash and take a care for those who died, and do them justice by allowing the facts to emerge, in order that this does not happen again. Again, Rest in Peace,to those that died needlessly, in my opinion. |
Before we get into a catfight about the above 'letter' you may want to do your research a bit better. Have a look at this letter that was posted on PPRuNe on the 18th September, 2 days after the 1-2-go crash on the MD80 plane crash in Phuket
The letter posted above by Bob Hawke was posted on some other website on 25th September, a full week after it was published on PPRuNe. I leave you to observe the similarities and draw your own conclusions. :rolleyes: Unless the contributors to this thread can enlighten us to something not already discussed elsewhere then it will be closed. Please, use a bit of intelligence before posting! :ugh: In fact, after consideration, I will refer you all back to the MD80 plane crash in Phuket thread where you can take your time and read what has already been posted before regurgitating old news and trying to scratch each others eyes out. :* |
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