It would be nice if real ATC was in charge of all movements on the airport. RAMP control is just a cheap ass way of doing it.

when a plane crashes due to mis communications...actually again...remember the aero argentine? well, just shake your head boys and girls and be careful for your own flight.

Chinglish?
 

For several months now, the company I work for has been transiting Chinese airspace. ATC's standard of english is outstanding, and they only issue instructions in sets of three (ICAO standard). And, by and large, they speak slowly enough to be understood. The same cannot be said by the controllers at LAX, who often use colloquialisms and speak as if it is their last breath on this earth! I once heard a Southwest skipper remark "I can't hear that fast, can you repeat with a southern drawl?" I nearly pissed my pants.
On the other hand, I have heard other Asian carriers working into my home port repeatedly request clarification of a basic clearance. To the extent that the controller simply aquiesced to their readback because the repeated requests for clarification were jamming the airwaves.
Use of standard phraseology should be mandatory. Unfortunately, the US seems to think it is the regulatory body, when it is not. Just as it is not their job to be the world's policemen.......:ugh::E

It'd be even better if they used datalink for as many controller to aircraft communications as possible.

About the only drawback to it is the lack of situational awareness that results for the pilot (in relation to other traffic around him).

But for airways/departure clearances etc, the adoption of system should be made **** mandatory - in all major airports, as soon as possible.

Silberfuchs:
Just a small correction: Actually there exist several ICAO approved languages of aviation:
English, French, Spanish, Russian, Arabic and Mandarin Chinese.
This was the result of the 1944 Chicago Convention.
English just has become the ligua franca of aviation.
While all of the listed languages are legal, I agree that there should be an international standard.
Though not being flight crew (I work on the ground, keeping the planes airworthy), I have been riding jump seat often enough in the past to understand how upsetting it is to know that there is somebody somewhere around, talking to ATC and you can not figure out what he intends to do because you don't understand him.
Rgds,
Jan

First of all, I agree, the NY controllers are not the most "ICAO standard" controllers that there are, but then again, they are a product of the system.

You go to any other overburdened airport arround the world and I can guarantee you that you will see the same. Try going to Mumbay during the late night push and you would be lucky if you get a word in. Just another ATC unit making do with what they got. Understaffing with inappropriate levels of traffic for which the system was not designed. This leads to some cutting corners every now and then. Just because it doesn't happen in X Airport, which is 234th busiest airport in the world does not mean it won't happen in one in the top 50.

Even so, I agree, the NY controllers can be a pain in the ass sometimes. But everyone has had a bad day, and I've heard pilots get pretty ignorant and arrogant as well.

Communication is a complex process. as long as you understand each other, who cares if it is "standard phraseology". We put up with multiple accents on the frequency, which are much harder to understand than coloquilisms. How come all you anal-retentive guys don't push for correct pronunciation too?

You all need to relax and understand that people are gonna have a tough time communicating no matter what language they use.

ICAO Doc 9835, 2.5 LANGUAGE TO BE USED
 

Hello All,
Regarding the new standards, the language of the station on the ground CAN be used but English must be readily available for pilots (at least level 4 proficiency) needing it.
I quote from Doc 9835, 2.5 Language To Be Used
Point 2.4 also explains the requirements of the Use of Plain Language and how it shall be used. If anyone is interested I'll post that subpart as well.
Best to all,
PE