And without getting in to a slanging match the Yanks are not happy the Yuropeens might have just come up with a better aircraft. The shuttle looked great but let us not forget our Russions friends "agricultural" hardware kept the ISS supplied and functional when the US technology went t**s up.

With language and other cultural issues to overcome the A380 and Airbus is a credit to cross border co-operation.

"I think you should wait to see what happens until after the French elections in springtime before ordering the wizzjet 380 Scruggs"

"Why's that, old bean?"

"Because when the launch customers find that it doesn't quite live up to it's billing, in more ways than one, and the project becomes unviable due to the lack of firm orders, I think you'll find that the project is scrapped before the huge losses become huger losses"

Told to me reliably by a French person !

Another French triumph....... just like my car...... NOT !

Watch this space !

With all those French jobs at stake , think not old bean . I believe we are stuck with this one .

Luckyguy and zed,
Will you please stop calling it a French aeroplane, displaying such a lack of knowledge doesn't help your street cred one iota!
FYI, the only bits made in Toulouse that we can think of are the engine pylons' structure. That's it.
Sure it's assembled in TLS and flight decks and centre sections are made in other French factories but most of the metal and plastic is Made In Britain or Germany or Spain.
It is a European based International programme. And Great Britain is part of Europe. Somehow find a way to cope with it.

Indeed--not French only.
I can't find a numeric reference right now, but am quite sure published articles in Aviation Week & ST have given a rather high fraction of 380 component value to be Made in USA, though no major structural sections. Aside from engines, major suppliers include Goodrich, Alcoa, Honeywell, and Rockwell-Collins.

A few more 'heavily discounted' smaller airframes as part of the compensation package plus re-orders on the same 'attractive' terms as the launch period sweeteners might've helped! :E

And a quick visit to the D&G boards might give you a guide as to the body of opinion on your last 'Qantas Management Bod' quote!

oh dear...missed, point, You, the

It would be somewhat unworldly not to assume that AB of course gave them a good deal. The point being made was that this was not the SOLE reason for the QANTAS decision.

I hope your not honestly expecting me to form any sort of reasoned and INFORMED opinion on the capability or otherwise of an airline management, based ENTIRELY on what I read in a forum...I'm sure you don't. I would note that prior to the buy out people like Macquarie Bank are obliged to undertake due dilligence and the Airbus order would most certainly have been looked at very closely.

archae86,
I totally agree and should have made it more clear that it is truly International. Not just the four 'home' countries who do the bulk of the structure but just like every Airbus, it is built on world-wide skills and assets.
Most of the B team's products also rely on a world-wide spread of resource. Japan for big chunks of the 777 and 787 fuselages - just as a 'for instance'.
May the world keep working together!

[quote=Luckyguy;3082983]"I think you should wait to see what happens until after the French elections in springtime before ordering the wizzjet 380 Scruggs"

"Why's that, old bean?"

"Because when the launch customers find that it doesn't quite live up to it's billing, in more ways than one, and the project becomes unviable due to the lack of firm orders, I think you'll find that the project is scrapped before the huge losses become huger losses"



I'm watching luckyguy, but here's seven kind words of comfort: Bravo Oscar Lima Lima Oscar X-ray Sierra

As far as I'm aware the launch customers were closely involved in all aspects of certification and flight testing, as have the operating crews from all customer airlines; the a380 passenger add on orders are from Singapore and Qantas-they already know the operating envelope and by assocation the operating economic projections, maintenance ect

I can't fathom this anti Airbus theme that runs through the largley uninformed postings (although I am new to this racket)

Airbus have launched in the past 10 years the A330, A318, A340-500, A340-600 and the A380 (+ the A400M). Boeing in comparision has launched only the 787, the only new B A/C in 10 or 11 years.

In terms of putting A/C into the market, Airbus are clearly the market leading manufacturer for new A/C, including managing the process of design and development.

has anyone considered the implications for assembling a barrell section Carbon fib' fuselage with next to no mis-match tolerance allowance. What about damage toleranace, damage awareness, damage assessment , damage detection and damage repair for the 787?

What about the Faraday cage amongst other things.

what about the IFE,avionics ect contractors on the 787 having shared system interfaces but will not let the diferent manufacturers systems talk to ach other due the commercal and right protection reasons (i heard this about 3rd hand, so take it with a grain of salt, but it rings true enough)

answers on a post card

A380 wiring solved...Good News ! Now lets get them making money. OK, what's next?
 

Shouldn't this thread be in JB (or perhaps another forum altogether?) :E

Certainly would. And you can just about hear Mossie slapping GD on the back and saying, "Well done, Dicko, you 5crewed those frogs into a compete corner on this one. And we still get to depreciate them from list price!"

IOW due dil has nought to do with it, as long as the contract can't be avoided later on.

On the other points:
- safety - on ehas to take any new aircraft on trust but I'll go with it. Airbus has too much to lose by pumping out knowingly unsafe airframes.
- reliability - the contract would presumably have performance guarantees which would require Airbus to compensate Qantas if reliability impacts network performance.
- economy - likewise.

Having read the book "21st Century Jet" (and watched the TV series) Boeing's ability to "manage the process of design and development" is pretty impressive too.

...not "anti Airbus", just not wanting Boeing to be discarded so easily! Both companies make excellent aircraft and, as a layman, it seems wrong for professionals to become so polarised in their views.

Bobbsy

[QUOTE=Thirty Eight South;3084180]Not quite sure what you mean by "shared interfaces but won't talk to each other" - in computer terms an interface is effectively a contract to allow two or more systems to talk to each other! Are you sure your third hand is not getting confused with the concept of having systems (particularly safety critical systems with crossover/redundancy) developed by different manufacturers to reduce the operational risk of simultaneous failure?

38South ,are you a bit anti-B ,aren't you?
Let's see: A318 ( A319 cut by almost 3 m ) ,A330 -? ,A340-500,600 ( very much needed improvement for the 340-300 ) ,A380-remains to be seen ,A400....? All new,right?
What about the 737 NG ,the 747-400,the new 777 series ,and still to come 747-8 ,and 787 series?
If you want to learn more about them go here : http://www.boeing.com/companyoffices/aboutus/....don't just listen to third hand..:ugh:

No Cargo A-380
 

from AvWebFlash, 21 Jan:

"Unconfirmed reports from Europe say UPS is ready to cancel its A380 order. The order for 10 aircraft is Airbus’s last remaining for the freighter version."

http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#194282

GB

There is no doubt that the 777 program produced a very good aircraft but they did manage to overspend by about $2 billion during the development which continues to effect the profitability of the aircraft for Boeing. Got it out pretty much on time though.

Pretty much right.
The A380 is only really the third aeroplane that Airbus has built.
They started with the A300, and the A330 & A340 are the same thing but with a stretch and modified wings, etc.
The A320 and its varients are also new.
The A380 is a new aiframe as well.

Three new planes in 30 years, that's all.

it's more than 3 as they all have different type certs:
a300, a310, 320 range, 330-340, 340-500/600, a400 and a380 as far as i'm aware: all of the info's probably in Janes somewhere

so seven types, with common type varients for the derivitives. if you take everything in the past 10-12 years it's 318/319/321/330/340-500:600/a380, a400, a310 tanker transport, a330 multi role tanker transport, a380 F and 300-600F.
that's a lot of planes, a lot of design and development and a lot of practice at it, and there's the new stuff on the horizon in the shape of the a350xwb

Well if content rather than assembly determine the "nationality" of a product...then most American brand automobiles are foreign as well...few things these days are 100% "home grown" probably a good thing...unless we hav world war-3 then nothing will will be serviceable in short order...:}

Airbus Backtracks-Only First A380's Wiring Fixed
 

January 26, 2007
Airbus on Friday toned down expectations of an immediate solution to the technical glitches which delayed its A380 superjumbo project, saying wiring problems had been solved for the first aircraft only.

A German news report last week said that Airbus had solved the wiring installation problems, which delayed A380 deliveries by an average two years and drove the planemaker into the red.

Aviation watchers and some investors cheered the report, saying it closed the worst chapter in Airbus's 30 year history.

Gerhard Puttfarcken, head of Airbus's German operations, said Airbus had passed a key milestone in completing wiring for the first A380 to be delivered to Singapore Airlines in October and handling the transition to cabin installation.

But work was still going on to solve the long-term issues.

Airbus expects to start building a common design platform in the summer between its main French and German plants. It will be fully operational from the production of the 26th plane onwards.

"We are creating the conditions so that in future there will be one common platform from all the sites," Puttfarcken told a briefing for French journalists when asked to clarify the report.

EADS subsidiary Airbus has 16 sites in four countries including seven in Germany.

Engineers found last year that wiring designed in Hamburg could not be fitted into A380s on the assembly line in Toulouse.

Experts blamed Airbus's failure to introduce sophisticated 3D design tools in Hamburg at the same time as Toulouse.

That in part reflected the four nation planemaker's incomplete integration, according to a diagnosis carried out by outside industrialist Christian Streiff, who served briefly as Airbus CEO last year and launched its Power8 restructuring plan.

The A380 backlogs cost the Airbus parent some EUR5 billion euros (USD$6.45 billion) in sacrificed profits over four years and triggered a political storm in both France and Germany, where most of Airbus's 55,000 staff are based. Britain and Spain also have Airbus factories.

(Reuters)