Armenian A320 crash whilst attempting to land in bad weather
 

BBC reporting Armenian airliner lost from radar.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4967464.stm

PP

BBC NEWS 24 said wreckage found:(

just on their website http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4967464.stm updated from the above story

MSNBC is reporting that the downed aircraft is an Armenian Airlines A320 (as are the other news links). It appears to have crashed into the sea.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12601815/

"Poor weather is hampering the rescue".............:ugh:

rego of the aircraft is EK32009
ex Ansett VH-HYO
survival looks slim

Here's the latest from Reuters. Sorry I can't reduce the size via a URL since this is directly from my dealing screen.


06:36 03May2006 RTRS-UPDATE 3-Armenian jet crashes off Russia, 113 presumed dead

(Adds passengers presumed dead, relatives' comments)
By Oliver Bullough
MOSCOW, May 3 (Reuters) - An Armenian airliner crashed into the Black Sea off the Russian coast in heavy rain on Wednesday, and all 113 passengers and crew on board were presumed killed, the Russian emergencies ministry said.
The plane, an Airbus A-320, was trying to land at Sochi, a popular seaside holiday spot in southern Russia, in bad weather when it slammed into the sea.
A spokesman for the Russian emergencies ministry said rescue workers had found baggage, life jackets, body parts, pieces of the shattered plane and a patch of oil floating on the surface of the sea at the crash site.
At least 16 bodies had been found by 0425 GMT.
"According to preliminary information, all people on board are dead," a ministry spokeswoman said.
The plane had been making a short flight of about an hour from the Armenian capital Yerevan, and most of the passengers were Armenian nationals.
"The fragments were found six km (4 miles) from the shore near the airport of Adler. The search operation continues," ministry spokesman Viktor Beltsov said.
Stunned relatives sat quietly waiting for news at Adler airport just outside Sochi, a resort town that became popular with Russians in the Soviet era.
Relatives also gathered at the airport in Yerevan. A list of passengers showed 26 had Russian passports and almost all the rest were Armenians.
"I was waiting for a call from my mother that she had arrived okay. But she did not phone, so I phoned myself and heard that this accident had happened," Khapet Tadevosyan, 32, told Reuters as he stood in the Yerevan airport building.
"She flew to Sochi to see her sisters, whom she hadn't seen for 15 years," he said.
Beltsov said the plane, operated by Armavia, had vanished from radar screens at 2.15 a.m. (2215 GMT Tuesday) near Sochi, which lies close to the Georgian border.
An Armavia official said the aircraft had initially been refused permission to land because of the heavy rain. But then the airport officials changed their mind and said the landing could go ahead.
"The plane was in an ideal technical condition, the crew was well qualified," said Andrei Aghajanov, deputy commercial director of the airline.
The plane had failed at its first attempt to land, and crashed into the sea at a very steep angle on its second approach. Its fuselage was lying on the seabed.
"The rescue workers are searching for the black boxes (flight recorders)," Beltsov said. "The main parts of the plane are located at around 400 metres (yards) depth."
Armavia is the largest airline in the former Soviet Republic of Armenia and has three Airbus 320s of the kind that crashed.
The plane was carrying at least five children and eight crew members. Heavy rain and poor visibility were complicating the search, initially for survivors and later for clues to the cause of the crash.
(Additional reporting by Hasmik Mkrtchyan in Yerevan)
((Editing by Tim Pearce, [email protected], +7 095 775 1242, RM: [email protected]))

WX at the time:

C05
URSS 022300Z VRB01MPS 6000 -SHRA BR BKN005 OVC028CB 11/11 Q1017 TEMRO 1500 BR VV005 RMK QBB160 G/~Z QFE762 SC05
URSS 022200Z VRB01MPS 4000 -SHRA BR BKN006 OVC027CB 11/11 Q1018 TEMRO 1500 BR VV005 RMK G/?Z QFE762 SC05
URSS 022200Z VRB01MPS 4000 -SHRA BR BKN006 OVC027CB 11/11 Q1018 temro 1500 BR VV005 RMK g/~z QFE762 SC05
URSS 022200Z VRB01MPS 4000 -SHRA BR BKN006 OVC027CB 11/11 Q1018 TEMRO 1500 BR VV005 RMK G/~Z QFE762 SC05
URSS 022100Z 00000MPS 2000 -SHRA BR BKN005 OVC023CB 11/11 Q1018 NOSIG RMK g/~z QFE762 SC05

Rather weird that they report OVC CB but no TS.

Similarities to GF072 Crash Bahrein?
 

Sounds like a similar general scenario to GulfAir 072
.
PITCH-UP Illusion strikes again?
.
"The plane had failed at its first attempt to land, and crashed into the sea at a very steep angle on its second approach."

Slow down Unctious...

Thoughts
 

I wonder which type of approach was being performed....non-precision? And whether suitable alternates were within range? Fuel on board? Standard issues, no tentative conclusions. The weather didn't look too bright, that's for sure.

Very sad. Condolences to Armenian colleagues.

an important thing that would make the difference is if there was an ils available, at sochi airport in that condition would make the difference let's see ,they crash 4 miles out the rwy, so at that distance supposing an ils approach they schould be at more or less 1800 agl, my question; is possible that a microburst make the a320 lose that altitde in short final with the engine spooling fast in landing config, and since how long ago this company is operating an airbus fleet because to me this disaster smell of airbus mismatch for the pilots.
Condolences to all the affected

Armavia have been operating the A320 for 3.5 years now, since October 2002, and have five in their fleet, with one being leased out. Most, including the accident aircraft, are from the onetime Ansett operation. It's the principal type in their fleet.

Chief of Armenian CAA told to the media that there was 10t of fuel on departure which is more than enough for 1 hour sector. There are several suitable alternates in Russia, Georgia, Turkey, all within 30-60 min from Sochi.

URSS is usually classified at cat B or cat C airport (depending on airline), approach minima is quite high there.

From the current BBC news page

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4967464.stm

"The Russian prosecutor general's office announced it had launched criminal proceedings for violation of air traffic procedures leading to loss of life, according to the AFP news agency."

This does seem extraordinary, that within 12 hours of the ditching and with few facts available criminal proceedings are being started.

Latest just received from Airbus Industries

FROM : AIRBUS CUSTOMER SERVICES TOULOUSE TX530526F

TO : ALL
A300/A310/A300-600/A319/A320/A321/A330/A340/A318/A340-500/A340-6
00 OPERATORS

ACCIDENT INFORMATION TELEX - ACCIDENT INFORMATION TELEX

SUBJECT: ARMAVIA FLIGHT RNV 967 ACCIDENT IN SOCHI (RUSSIA)
OUR REF.: U8 967 AIT 1 DATED MAY 3, 2006

AIRBUS REGRETS TO CONFIRM THAT AN A320 AIRCRAFT OPERATED BY
ARMAVIA WAS INVOLVED IN AN ACCIDENT VERY EARLY IN THE MORNING
WHEN APPROACHING SOCHI AIRPORT AT THE RUSSIAN BLACK SEA COAST
UNDER REPORTED POOR WEATHER CONDITIONS.

AIRCRAFT WAS OPERATING ARMAVIA FLIGHT RNV 967 FROM EREVAN,
ARMENIA, TO SOCHI.

THE AIRCRAFT INVOLVED IN THE ACCIDENT, REGISTRATION NUMBER EK-
32009 BEARING MSN 547 WAS DELIVERED TO ARMANIA IN FEBRUARY 2004
AND HAD LOGGED OVER 28,200 FLIGHT HOURS AND 14,400 LANDINGS. IT
WAS POWERED BY CFM56-5A ENGINES.


ACCORDING TO AVAILABLE INFORMATION, THERE WERE 105 PASSENGERS
AND 8 CREW MEMBERS ON BOARD. AT THE TIME OF ISSUANCE OF THIS
TELEX, THERE WERE UNCONFIRMED REPORTS OF 113 FATALITIES.

IN LINE WITH INTERNATIONAL CONVENTION, AIRBUS HAS OFFERED FULL
TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE TO THE INVESTIGATION AUTHORITIES. FOR THIS
PURPOSE, AIRBUS IS PRESENTLY DISPATCHING A TEAM OF 5 TECHNICAL
ADVISORS TO ASSIST THE AUTHORITIES.

FURTHER UPDATE WILL BE PROVIDED AS SOON AS RELIABLE INFORMATION
IS AVAILABLE AND NOT LATER THAN 05 MAY 06.

YANNICK MALINGE
VICE PRESIDENT FLIGHT SAFETY
AIRBUS

WHBM
I belive this is a standart practice in CIS countries.

There is not.

Has it been decommissioned or NOTAMed out? Used to be ILS on RWY 02 and 06.

Used to work with Armavia for 3 years. Lot of dearest friends lost. Beautiful place, sweet memories. Have absolutely no idea what it was and why it happened. Just made a phone call to Yerevan. Tears and sorrow are the only reply for the time being. My condolences.....

Sad Indeed
 

questions
 

First of all My condolences to all those effected from this tragedy .
Would like to know what type of approach she was making ? fuel scenario . . . I read somewhere they had 10 tons on T/O , making a calculated guess then I don't think they were short of fuel , however correct me if im wrong on this ....
I believe this was the second attempt to land after initating a go around , what was the cause of this ?
all the press sites are claiming wx was the reason for the crash , was there shear and or microburst activity in the area ?
Anyone :confused:
:(

Weather most 'certainly' the cause? Sounds like a bad Hollywood script...

Must be a new trend in the media. In the older days, the first gues for the cause after severe aircraft accidents were "lightning strikes", then bombs (the infamous farmer, who heard always "two explosions") and after that, "cell phones".

With regards,

Stubenfliege

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/storie...05/04/001.html

FROM THE MOSCOW TIMES.

Is there much chance the aircraft stalled?

Not with the hard envelope protection of the A320, no. It won't stall no matter what you do to it. It would just fail to gain height, not stall. That's a part of the fly-by-wire system as basic on the A320.

As SLF I am wary of making a contribution in R&N. However, I have been to Adler and the place (please understand that I am speaking as a scientist, not an aviator) did strike me as being more challenging then average with regard to the weather. Behind the airport, which is almost at sea level, is the western edge of the Caucasus Mountains, rising quickly to in excess of 1000m.

To give some background, at the moment I am working on a paper looking at some unusual characteristics of storms in Black Sea area. Specifically, I am looking at the Rostov Region area, where the topography does not complicate the issue. One factor I note is the very localised intense downdraughts that are not necessarily coincident with an active cell. It is reasonable to hypothesize that this characteristic will equally apply in Krasnador Region, and that the mountains may even exacerbate this characteristic.

As a non-aviator I can offer no opinion on cause of this tragedy, and note the previous comments about how easy it is to quickly use weather as a thoughtless and 'media friendly' cause. However, if this information is helpful in any way I trust you will forgive my visit to R&N!

Suffice to say, I feel great sadness at this accident and also wish to add my condolences.

The Pitch-Up Illusion
 

OTOLITH ORGANS
.
The Otolith Organs work like a caterpillar oriented from the front to the back of the head. When you move your head the multiple legs of the caterpillar (hairs) are stimulated by gravitational forces enabling you to have positional awareness. Due to inertia, linear acceleration cannot be distinguished from the force of gravity. If an adequate horizon is not visible, forward acceleration will result in backward displacement of the caterpillar, giving the forceful illusion of a pitchup in attitude. An adequate horizon may not be available outside of the aircraft when you are looking into the sun such as might exist at dawn or dusk.
Despite being in level flight or shallow climb, upon acceleration in such a situation a pilot might strongly perceive that the aircraft is pitching up and respond by pushing the nose down steeply.

Overtalk, not certain if you are qualified, but for I think all of us with IR training our instructors dinned into us from day 1 to work on instruments, not bodily awareness.

My own guy had a good basic technique. On the first IR lesson he just got me to put head down and close eyes, and comment on what I felt was the attitude of the aircraft while he had control. When I was saying "straight and level" he would say "look up" and I would find he had gently put us in a spiral dive (which I then had to get us out of). Did it a couple of times. Never forgot it.

7000hrs multi and jet instruction and ME Inst Rating Examiner [14.5K hrs total].
.
Pitch-up Illusion was the cause of GulfAir 072 in Bahrein. It can be a very overpowering illusion. It's lost many USN airplanes.
.
Somatogravic Illusion and the GF072 accident - LINK

Do we have anything on the history of the crew? Bearing in mind the location of the incident, are Unctuous and Overtalk also intimating that the difference between Soviet-style and Western (for want of better descriptions) artificial horizon displays might come into play here?

Cheers,

Rich.

I am NOT suggesting that it had anything to do with the accident, but my newspaper quoted one young lady waiting at the destination airport as saying "Mum rang me and said she had got a signal on her mobile so they would be landing soon"

The last exchanges are a good reason why a ‘professionals only forum' might help in this type of discussion. Both comments are valid. Certainly we have ‘believe your instruments' drummed into us at an early stage...and certainly accidents have happened as a result of human physiology making us not do so–if only for a moment.

Perhaps if the posters had been clearly labeled with their qualifications, more thought would have gone into why they had introduced their post.

Anyway, this kind of discussion gives reminders, and interesting new details, that may be vital to us one dark and stormy night. I wish I had such a forum in the bad old days of ‘shut the hanger door!' outside duty hours.

From The Times, today;

:uhoh:

How dumb can you get?

According to the Novosti, the "crew commander (-> Captain?) was one of the most experienced pilots and had flown Airbus airliners for years". Name of the crew commander sounds armenian for me. -> Quoted from airline press release.

Hi,

interesting to hear from someone involved with the weather there. I was and am a tad confused by the METAR's coming out of there, going something like BKN006 OVC027CB. Any OVC -- CB condition is something that will catch attention, but a broken layer below that, and the overcast is a bit on the unusual side for this central european met observer.

Can you give a bit more information on this? How would you rate the met conditions as they were reported there with what your experience shows?

And miss stuff like this? Your loss, but I prefer hearing from people who seem to go pretty deep into the met side, even if they are "only" SLF.

Best regards
AN2 Driver

Cellphones, peut-etre?
 

Mobile phones should be confiscated from pax before flight, nicely of course, then tagged, receipted, and returned after flight. Possession and use during flight should then become 2 levels of criminal offence. Worldwide. Action ICAO. And IATA. Now.

This is not to implicate mobile messages directly with this sad accident

BUT I have experienced circumstantial evidence of FCU inputs bringing erratic outcomes in terms of the a/c obeying inputs, commensurate with mobile ringtones received in out headphones. Requires swift intervention.

[QUOTE=RoyHudd]Mobile phones should be confiscated from pax before flight,

So, what do you propose to do? Name tag all 150 or so phones on a short flight or all 400+ on a jumbo. I can just see the departure procedure.

You'll find that most pilots have left their mobiles on in their flight bag. I don't think it matters a monkeys, no one has been able to prove under controlled conditions that they interfere.

On my flight a couple of days ago I (once again) forgot to switch my mobile off. So realising this I switched it off and simultaneously the autopilot disconnected. Not fiction but fact from a 20+year airline captain.
And this was on a clasic B737. So beware, there's always something waiting to surprise you.:eek:

This is a story of a sorry Armenian flight and not mobile phones. We've had threads up the hilt about cell/mobile phones and this thred should not start to wander toward that.