BA cabin crew threaten to poison pilots
 

Following a very reasonable letter to BA news from a First Officer the BA cabin crew union's (BASSA) forum has been inundated with threats to use eye drops to poison the person involved.

The letter questioned the effiency of cabin crew rostering and has been met with comments such as .

This is not the first time that there has been such a threat on this site.

I have just been told by a freind who is well connected that the posts have been copied and there is serious consideration being given to a complaint to the Metropolitan Police and the CAA.

Talking to BA Cabin Crew over the years at times when their tongues were loosened with alcohol (not rare occasions!), it struck me how many proudly bragged, or knew of someone, who had 'fixed' pilots drink or food because of perceived sleights or whatever! I was absolutely staggered that people could be so stupid, but from the number of reports, I know it happened, and some of the old dragons would not shirk from doing it to pilots they disliked. I know for myself I have experienced sudden and explosive, and instantly vanishing, stomach upsets (and inflight!). Fortunately I have retired from that institution with no apparent lasting damage, but just possibly slightly radioactive, but not due to cabin crew 'food additives' I think!

Yes it does happen, and no, nobody is interested!

Somone said the police are already involved, anyone know?

Lord Flashhart sorry but you need to be corrected. Inundated with threats would imply a number of threats have been made.

One comment was made. Get it right mate. It was a comment made in jest.

Ossie O, I disagree, the comment was/is full of intent. For the record a complaint to the police has been made.

DD I for one find the comment immature and childish. The point of my post was to correct LF he has made it sound like a number of threats were made - this was not the case.

I would be very surprised if the police treated it seriously but you never know.

Anecdotally, there have been at least a dozen alleged instances of this kind of behaviour at BA in the last 5 years or so.
As a current flight-deck member I cannot begin to comprehend the kind of stupidity that this kind of behaviour entails. From my own conversations with cabin crew, and from those who get a bit "chatty" after a few drinks down route I have come to the conclusion that it is a small minority of bitter individuals, most of whom bear little resemblance to the vast majority of utterly professional cabin crew.

In my opinion those members of cabin crew that condone and do nothing about this activity, are every bit as foolish and reckless, as those who actually perpetrate what is in point of fact a criminal act :yuk:

Forgive me, but what a horribly misleading thread this is.

A tongue-in-cheek comment made on what should be a secure and private forum has been taken and blown out of proportion. I'm sorry to admit that I work in a company where the rift between the flight crew and cabin crew communities is large and growing. Sadly, a lot of the animosity stems from the Cabin Crew corner but this comment shouldn't be thought of as anything more than lighthearted and, again, very much tongue-in-cheek.

The suggestion that Cabin Crew would "poison" or in any way contaminate the food/drink of our Flight Crew colleagues is just ridiculous.

That's not to say there aren't a few bad apples out there - but I doubt any of them would be foolish enough to publicly outline their plans. Indeed, the people who have engaged in this activity in the past shouldn't be allowed to have their feet hit the floor before being swiftly tossed from Compass Centre, but to make a mountain out of this veritable mole hill just seems a little, um, over sensitive.

British Airways cabin crew have a bad enough name as it is - the last thing we need is those who aren't armed with all of the facts coming here, reading your post and imagining something sinister.

It's a matter of days before this hits The Dail Mail, I guarantee!

Ozzie I think you will find the police are obligedto take it seriously

Having led a very sheltered life - what does putting eye-drops in the coffee do?
And judging by the coffee I had coming back from Lanzarote the other day methinks it could possibly improve it :uhoh:

I'm cabin crew for the said comany and would never consider poisoning one of my fellow workers. I would just remain professional and not socialise with them down route.
Secondly I have read the article and yes I do agree that from a daily basis we do seem to work less than the pilots,but what they forget to tell you is that they get 3 - 4 days off extra a month. I do on average 47 - 50 duty hours in a six day block. and only get 10 days off a month ( and I know before alot of the loco carriers complain that you only get 9 ). So the article by the ba pilot was correct in one sense that we do 'seem' to work less but we just do our work in the extra 3 - 4 days a month we work.

I'm sure you do 47-50 hours duty per week, the point of the letter is you do signigicantly less flying than that. At least a third of your duty hours are likely to be sitting around Compass or CAT on industrially required long turnarounds earning allowances but not doing any work. Many of your colleagues seem unable to make that distinction. The pilots you mention are not only getting 3 to 4 days extra off per month but they are also flying more hours per month than you. In addition, many EF crews have a roster with several 'Available' days on which they can be non-opped, which means effectively being granted an additional day off.

The current Eurofleet agreement effectively strings out a small amount of work to fill a long period in order to get more cash, a not dissimilar practice to the Gate Gourment kitchen staff.

Gives ya the sh1ts....

I fill all my availables with the longest days possible ie. dme there and back ist there and back I work to pay a mortgage and work as hard as I possibly can. ava = no allowences.
I do as many long duty days as possible

Sadly this is a clash of cultures and personality, take your average CC member, and your average Flight deck member, and you will continue to get the US vs THEM comments.
It just all seems exacerbated at a place like BA due to all the competing interests, and entrenched outdated work practices.
Put another way..its not going to be solved easily.:ok:

These things happen sometimes...

______________________________


Flight Attendant Accused of Spiking Juice

Fri Mar 14, 2003 10:18 AM ET

DETROIT - A former Northwest Airlines flight attendant was charged with assault for allegedly putting a prescription depressant in a toddler's apple juice to stop her crying on an international flight.

Daniel Reed Cunningham, 33, also was charged Thursday with distributing a controlled substance on the Aug. 25 flight from Amsterdam to Detroit.

Arraignment was set for Tuesday for Cunningham, who is not in custody, the U.S. attorney's office said.

The girl's mother, Beate Turner, told FBI (news - web sites) special agent Terry Booth that Cunningham seemed upset when her 19-month-old daughter became restless and began squirming and crying on the flight. Cunningham offered the apple juice three times before Turner accepted, according to the agent's affidavit. The girl suffered no serious injury.

Turner later noticed the juice was bitter and foamy and had blue and white specks floating in it. Ten days after the flight, she took the juice to University Laboratories in Novi, which confirmed the presence of Xanax, a prescription medication used to treat panic attacks and anxiety, the FBI said.

The drug's side effects include lightheadedness, fatigue and drowsiness. The Food and Drug Administration (news - web sites) hasn't approved it for children, the agency said.

Cunningham has denied drugging the child in statements to the FBI. He did not return a telephone message left Friday at a listing for him, and his attorney, Neil Fink, declined comment.

Cunningham also has been charged with importing more than 100 tablets of a non-narcotic controlled substance into the United States on a different flight in October. The tablets included Xanax and Valium.

Northwest spokeswoman Mary Stanik said Cunningham was hired in 1998 and worked for the airline until last Dec. 30. She said she could not discuss his case.

A couple of things to add.

Firstly the pilots did have the same agreements but gave them up for a pay restructure which most did very nicely out of or indeed one day will ( and I take the point a very small % lost out ) A large no. of pilots resent the cabin crew working practises as they feel there union sold them down the river

Secondly they are called agreements ie. all parties company,unions, employees agreed to these working practises.

Thirdly if they think these agreements are so good I hear they are still recruiting crew at the rivers www.britishairwaysjobs.com.

Grow up.It's just a bit of banter on a forum.

Things get taken too seriously these days.

Just laugh and get on with it.

I have read the letter and know the person who wrote it. He is a busybody who has done it because he will be standing in the elections that are coming up for BA BALPA reps.

He didn't get voted in last time and it really hurt him. He has been bitter about it ever since. This time he is determined to get in at all costs .

Any publicity is good publicity, and this is all he is up to.

>>Grow up.It's just a bit of banter on a forum.

That can sure get you in trouble sometimes in this business. Here's an earlier thread:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=100717

I can't confirm the "dozen", but I can confirm one other instance. It was a specific threat against me. It was written. I reported it through the "proper channels" i.e. to the CAA, to Security, to fleet management, but not to the police or (although sorely tempted) the Press.

The result was............ I have absolutely no idea!
There was an brief telephone acknowledgement from the Fleet Office and another from Security then.....never heard another thing about it.

The problem, it seemed to me, was that Cabin Crew Management were too powerful and Flight Crew Management too pathetic to impress upon all cabin crew the stupidity and the criminality of even thinking of doing such a thing. The CAA once again "regulated with a light touch" (!!)

I see absolutely nothing has changed.

Sorry but going to have to take issue with that point, coming as it does direct from BASSA HQ with barely a glancing blow at the truth! The pilots had a meal allowance system which they exchanged for an hourly rate. They did not give up any working agreements in any substantive form, and we never had an agreement which benefited us to sit around being unproductive. The only thing that changed was an overtime payment for delays at the end of duty which were rarely triggered anyway. The pilots do not resent the cabin crew working practices because they feel their union sold them down the river, they resent them because whilst other areas of the company are feeling the pinch the cabin crew are still woefully inefficent by any measure. BASSA would have you believe we're working harder thanks to the hourly rate and thats why we say you are inefficient - its hardly surprising given that they fought so hard to oppose it. We we're working harder than you before the hourly rate, we're working harder than you since the hourly rate, it's got nothing to do with that.

Albert Driver,

Quote:

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I can't confirm the "dozen", but I can confirm one other instance. It was specific against me. It was written. I reported it through the "proper channels" i.e. to the CAA, to BA Security, to fleet management, but not to the police or (although sorely tempted) the Pres

---

You mean that you have been tested for poisoning and you had a positive result?

Flyblue

It's best to read the title of the thread before posting.

Eye drops are seriously dangerous and do not act as described in this thread. Please see here for more info...
http://www.snopes.com/medical/myths/visine.asp

Albert Driver,

I am asking if you, or anyone, has proof of this (poisoning) really happening.

Flyblue, it is a bit difficult to present a 'sample' to anyone and have the appropriate testing carried out! But when you are told many times it takes place, and you can remember times you have suffered inflight 'digestive troubles', you can put two and two together. I appreciate you are astonished and outraged, that is how I felt when gently teasing out of some cabin crew what goes on. The stories made me feel sick. It is not just eye drops- one would feel lucky if it was just that! I have heard of other 'fluids' being used, by the alleged perpetrators themselves, though always well after the event. It is not something someone can understand from another company where normal people seem to work, there is an inherrent poisonous culture afoot in this large airline, and the managerial levels are either desperate to ignore it to prevent further ramifications, or totally apathetic, one doesn't know. One has heard of a certain former CE of the airline in question who has been 'done', and carried his own catering on his own airline's flights, but maybe that is just hearsay! It is something nobody can really do anything about, isn't it? And as for 'proving' it, one can't really do that, either, can you? But they brag about doing it!

Flyblue

Nowadays the threat, alone, is almost certainly a criminal act.

Rainboe,
thank you for your reply. Of course anyone would be astonished to read that kind of news.
I was asking if there were any solid proof, because in my company you can't even claim "plain" food poisoning on board (it counts as an accident on the workplace in this case, not as a common illness) if you don't get tested (don't let me get specific on what you must test to prove it :D, but you can do it without the help of the company).
I think that it would be wise once and for all try to prove you got poisoned, instead of living on rumors that might, or might not, be legends. Of course the company can't take action on something that has never been proved. All would be different if you indeed had been tested positive to poisoning.

I don't work for BA and therefore has no direct knowledge. But in the 16 years I have been working in airlines, I have never personally witnessed or heard anyone bragging about such a criminally stupid thing. I would immediately have reported if I had, because a person doing this would surely not be mentally fit to fly.

This situation of incertitude is worse than the poison itself, because it is poisoning your trusting in the members of your own crew.

I hear the TSA is now going to check all the BA crews in the USA with extra care to make sure you aren't carrying any Visine to poison each other with. Bad enough you flying around with 3 engines and all.

May include cavity searches as well.

Flyblue- I ask you, is it 'rumours' when someone proudly tells you they have done it themselves? And others tell you they have seen it done? It goes a little beyond rumour. But for me, it was long ago and something I really prefer to pass on now, but I know it happened. Just too many stories. Thing is, they tell you when the target is anonymous, and the event was on a different trip.

20+ years ago when the AIDS scares were abundant certain Capts refused to be served by gay stewards incase they would 'catch' something. One in particular made it quite clear he would refuse to eat anything seved by a 'suspect' male steward. What he didn't bargin for was a right hand flavoured yohurt served to him on an SFO flight by a stewardess!!!

Prior to that when flying classic 747's a certain flight engineer would always make himself known to the Johnny Walker black label bottle in the upper deck lounge bar while the main meal was being served on the lower deck. His reputation preceeded him and on one flight he helped himself to one 'Black Label' too many. Later that night he bought it along to a room party and he couldn't understand why no one wanted to share his drink, until he poured a measure - wish I had bought my camera to photograph the look on his face!!!

A friend of mine who is BA cabin crew sent me this snippet from her forum:



She said that she cannot believe the attitude of a minority of her colleagues who openly make such threats and then add comments such as "only joking' a day or so later when they realise that their comments may have been taken seriously and possibly fowarded to the authorities.


She says she know for sure that some idiot cabin crew have not only put eye drops in pilot's drinks,but have also done it to 'annoying' passengers,as well as wiping their steaks around the toilet bowl and adding certain fluids to yoghurt !!!


I cannot believe that an airline would put up with such childish and possibly dangerous behaviour.

To be told over a few beers that that had been done, never mind the urban myths, changes your approach in the morning.
Trying to chivvy `em up to make an on time departure and then find an hour and half later you`ve been offered nothing in terms of liquid is a bit of a giveaway.
Unless you know them ask for a full large bottle, and then check the seal.
What`s funny about a runny tummy is beyond me, but then again l don`t understand why a CSA would intercept an engineer to explain,wrongly, an imagined problem on the flightdeck.
Surely not penis envy?
The key to this is to give CSA` s licences, with a number, and then we can bin mirrors in the galley.

One knew a loadmaster on cargo flights who pissed in certain pilots teas and coffees for years !

:ooh:

Well, that's just fine so long as you're not the one scheduled for the arsenic agenda. Actually, I wonder if it would be self defence were a flight crew member to preempt a poisoning situation by exterminating a cabin crew member in the galley before the cockpit service?:p

As a ground staff member of BA who has served more years than he would care to remember I see pilots and cabin crew members on a daily basis. The scenario described in this thread would appear to occur about 5% of the time, i.e. 95% of the time the two communities get along famously.
In any cross section of society there are about 5% extremists thus the situation in BA is probably the norm

:eek:

I doubt that it is the norm for 5% of the population to run around introducing poisonous or noxious subtances into other people's food or drink. However, be that as it may, are we therefore to infer that some 5% of BA Cabin Crew are so pyschologically disturbed or whatever, as to render themselves potentially liable for criminal prosecution or civil damage's actions?
:ouch:

Cavortingcheater. The first part of that is surely a home truth for Iraq. And . . the brits tend to understate, so maybe, possibly, having read the advice issued by what passes for your overseas thingy, . er you may be wrong.

A certain sparklycart my be regretting their threat to posion a BA SFO.

That certain SparklyCart also made clear that his/her post was completely in jest, and that they absolutely did not advocate endangering flight safety by carrying out such acts 'in real life'.

Whether the humour/'in jest' was appropriate or not is another question, but the OP has made it clear that he/she would absolutely not do such a thing.

I'm sure many of us will have said things in jest or humour which we'd never dream of doing.

If I seriously thought that one of my colleagues was likely to pull such a stunt as 'eye drops in coffee', I'd not only confront them about it, I'd put in the approriate 'heads up' to those who would need to investigate. However, in 8 years of flying, meeting and working with literally thousands of fellow crewmembers, there has only be one occasion where I've ever had to question a colleagues intergrity - and that wasn't at BA.

It'd be interesting to see some of the threads about BA Cabin Crew on the BALPA forum - there apparently is no shortage of pilots who seem to trawl through the private 'membership only' BASSA forums!