Eighteen Months of Hell!!!
 

This posting is a cautionary tale about what happens when a totally ineffective Fleet Manager refuses to discipline a lady first officer for sexual harassment. I have spent the last ten out of sixteen months of sick prior to early retirement. My family and partner have been through hell.. .. .Some background information about the circumstances, the lady is question flew with me in late July/early August 2000. She refused to comply with the Operations Manual regarding the use of the shoulder harness, refused to comply with SOPs and broke the speed limit in the descent and on the SIDs on several occassions. She also insisted on using a clip board that had pictures of partially clad males in clear view. . .. .She was well below the standard expected of someone of her experience and I contacted the Training Manager in order to arrange for some extra training. She was of the opinion that Training Captains should not train on line flights but only on line checks.. .. .During late August/early Septeber 2000 she remarked to at least five line captains that she flew with, one of whom gave me statement, advising them that" confidence has gone as a result of me staring at her breasts instead of training her". I contacted the Fleet Manager and the rest is history and appears below.. .. .The lady in question later freely admitted in a meeting on the 19th January 2001 when the Fleet Manager, a Personnel Person and myself were present, that she had made up the entire story and that it was malicious, false and entirely without any foundation. NO action was taken against her.. .. .Due to Fleet manager's procrastination in September/October 2000 I started the formal grievance procedure based od on her alleged remarks. Even before a formal hearing I was advised by letter dated the 11th Dec 2000 " In respect of your reservations and potential refusal to fly with First Officer ******* on your return I do not see this to be an acceptable or workable option." I had gone sick with acute stress, anxiety and depression by this time so it was not a problem!. .. .Prior to the letter of the 11th Dec at a meeting with the Fleet Manager and the Personnel Person on the 23rd November 2000 I was advised by the latter that should I refuse to fly with the lady in question "they would have to consider letting me go". I was so shocked that I asked for this to be repeated. It was repeated verbatum.. .. .Around about this time another first officer, listening to the rumour machine, wrote to the local Magistrates Court where I sit and advised them that I had been suspended from work and was being investigated for sexual harassment, both of which were untrue. The Operations Director refused to take any action against this individual.. .. .I received aletter dated 15th February from the Fleet Manager advising me that they had decided to take no action against the lady, inspite of her admission. I was advised in this letter that the January meeting with the lady in question was " to enable you to initiate the re-building of a good working relationship with ****** and I expect this to be maintained in a consistent manner in the future". I was also advised in the letter that I didn,t have to fly with her for three months as a "cooling-off period".. .. .I had to visit the CAA psychiatrist before returning to work as they were concerned about the stress that I had suffered. At the end of the three month freeze I knew that we could be rostered together. I was concerned that she may try to make more allegations on a formal basis and be believed by the company as the easy way out. When I went to my AME in September 2001 for renewal I was told that I was under too much stress and that as long as the threat of dismissal was hanging over me I would not fly I took early retirement in February 2002.. .. .The level of harassment is assessed in law as perceived by the victim. All I wanted was an apology and a guarantee not to fly together. This was not an option. When I sugested a apology to the lady at the 19th Jan meeting she demanded an apology from me and stated that "I would do the same thing again if I threatened and considered it justified." Nice lady!!. .. .The strain on my family has been incredible. When you see your dear old mum of eighty breaking down in tears over this lot you'll know why I want to pass this message on.. .. .A BIG BIG Thank you to all my colleagues for seeing me through a very difficult time. I would not have made it without you. I've given up the job I love but at least I have my health, sanity. .and support of a lot of very good people.. .. .Safe flying. .. .MP <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

Dear MP, I was so sad...but not too surprised.. to learn of your shocking treatment. An ex F27 737 and Jet Ranger capt. I was diagnosed with MS in 1997 and subsequently received the most appalling treatment at the hands of my employer. May I be of any help in this matter... by way of free legal advice perhaps? You may email me at [email protected] if you wish. In the meantime every good wish to you... there IS a life beyond Vref! Cheers.

Many thanks for those kind words of support.. .. .MP <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

MP. .although not to the same extent, I can certainly relate to the stress caused by inefficient/ diabolical fleet/ops management. Without getting too heavily involved, I was subject to undue pressure from the top over an 'incident' whereby the top accused me of making incorrect decisions, although they could not find any contraventions to the ops manual, and would have had me fly an a/c full of pax in extremely bad weather with a potentially engine failure inducing defect from a diversion airfield back to base. Even after the 'hearing' was complete, I was cornered several times to rub it in. Fortunately the source of this stress is soon to cease, but the memory lives on. I hope for your sake that things get back to normal soonest.

Maximum. .. .I'm not going to be today's most popular person for saying this but what you have outlined does not seem to me to justify calling your Fleet Manager totally ineffective. The whole thing seems to have got massively out-of-hand but you have got your closure. Is it a good thing to start opening this out too publicly?. . . . <small>[ 07 March 2002, 15:41: Message edited by: twistedenginestarter ]</small>

No Names but he has since been "moved sideways".. .What's wrong with a public airing. If you had been there you may well have the same views a myself. . .. .Losing your medical certificate through no fault of your own isn't much fun when you are basically "fit". .. .MP <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" />

Totally as an outsider and knowing this forum as I do....after a public airing like this, I can't help but feel you are desperate for further self analysis.. .. .Turn over a new leaf....quickly!

Totally as a retired person I'm living life to the full and enjoying every minute of it. I can really recommend it!. .. ."Laugh and you laugh together, cry and you cry alone".. .. .Life's too short to dwell on events but I don't want any of my mates shafted.. .. .Happily Retired MP <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="cool.gif" />. . . . <small>[ 07 March 2002, 16:58: Message edited by: PPRuNe Towers ]</small>

MP,. .. .That is a chilling story, one can't even begin to imagine the dreadful time that you and your family must have gone through.. .. .Enjoy your retirement - you certainly deserve it.. .. .Best wishes,. .JG

As the story goes -. ."was I married to her once?". .. .I wish you the best of luck in the future. I just hope that in the future there is no more of this reverse sexual discrimination. I am afraid to say that many weak willed people are frightened to get question a woman on her version of events and all too often the full story is not told.. .. .This may take a long time to change, every day it gets a little bit closer.. .. .the best of luck sir.

Chilling story indeed.. .Is there more to this than you have laid on the table??. .. .It seems fairly obvious that the girl should have been terminated when testifying to the fact she laying.. .Instead she get promoted to captain...?. .. .Does not ring a bell.. .. .(This TowerDog has had 17 flying jobs and seen my share of in-fighting and cockpit conflicts, etc but the outcome is usually reversed.) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="confused.gif" />

If its all over as you say and there are no possible legal arguments, then name and shame the "cow" or at least the airline. . .It could help save the rest of us ending up with careers in tatters if we're ever unfortunate to come across her.. .Good luck and continued good health in your retirement.

This lady was trouble from day one. . .. .During the simulator course she complained that she had not been paid. It transpired that she had not told the company where to send the money. Training Captains expressed doubts about her suitability at the simulator stage but were over-ruled by the training manager, acting on instructions from the fleet manager perhaps??. .. .She had more line training during the initial conversion than any otherpilot. I cannot remember the exact number but it was of the order of 80 to 90 sectors. When she came to her final line check with me she still needed more training and I refered her to the Training Manager who checked her out. She was furious at the time and threatened to get her own back one day. Guess what??? . .. .MP

Mad Mitch. .. .E-mail for that one!. .. .MP

I agree with you MP,. .. .I hope your retirement is stress free!. .. .Cheers. .. .autothrottle <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="confused.gif" />

To keep the heat of the other two lady pilots,who are good friends of ours, the Lady is no longer based in the Midlands.. .. .MP <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

MP that is a truly appaling ordeal and my sympathies go out to you and your family. All the best for a long and happy retirement following your distinguished career.. .. .Having some insight into your managements culture it doesn't surprise me. These people have never seen daylight except between each others ears.. .. .Gurnzee's experience is a common one too.. .. .I think it works like this. The 'Old Man' gets annoyed by a delay which incurs a cost. He then tells the Ops Director to 'have the pilot in for a word'. This low level bullying is delegated to the Fleet Manager who picks his moment. A suggestion is made that their are better ways of handling operational situations that will avoid further interviews . . .. .. .It goes on all the time but rarely gets talked about for obvious reasons.. .. .Bad cultures start at the top in any organisation. The issue here is that trying to interfere with resposibilities of the ATPL is one of safety.. .. .You are best off out of it basically.

MP,. .. .A man of your calibre should never have been treated this way.. .You trained me and taught me a great deal.. .Respect.. .J

Should have been an easy decision for management...if she was employed under an employment contract, the language of which mentions...."good moral character shall be maintained...", then she could have been dismissed for cause, because she admitted lying.. .Perhaps an attorney here could comment...would be interesting.. .Another thought...with the FAA license, "good moral character..."(ATPL) must be maintained, otherwise the FAA has in the past REVOKED a pilots' license for lying...I wonder if the UKCAA has similar provisions.. .Revenge....and why not? Seems reasonable to me.. . . . <small>[ 07 March 2002, 22:01: Message edited by: 411A ]</small>

MaximumPete. .. .Knowing only from what I read here on pprune you have more then my sympathy. The good (read bad) old attitude of the stiff upper lip is long overdue. Any greavances should be able to be voiced to my humble opinion. An other said story involving the influence of an incompetent manager in a position willing or unwilling scruwing up. No good some people sitting on the fence airing their status of I’m alright jack! . .. .Enjoy your live. . .. .« I’m 49 percent bitch, 51 percent sweetheart don’t push me » hope that helps.. .. .Apologies are waiting . . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" />

Is this Britannia by any chance.

MP, (unfortunate abbreviation!). .99% of my collegues, and no doubt yours, are/were excellent collegues, but theres always one isn't there?. .In the "good old days" such people, be they misfits, unsafe, or whatever, were eventually "failed" on their six monthly check. It seems that in todays environment airline management are thinking more about losing the considerable investment they have made in a particular pilots training than anything else. Very sad. It is another indicator of the fact that flying is no longer the "gentlemans" profession that it once was. . .All the best for your retirement BTW!

MP,. .impossible, how the story got out of hand!. .I feel really embarassed, becaus a woman's action like the one you describe does not really help the co-ed flying.. .. .Not all women are equal, I hope you have not lost trust in us.. .. .Enjoy as much as you dare!. .Cheers

You've done your bit with your last airline, MP.. .. .Enjoy retirement, and submit your dreadful account of these experiences to a place where it may be acted upon. Then relax.... .. .Good luck.

This wouldn't be Ryanairs old chief pilots daughter girlie by any chance??

Huh,. .. .Guys and gals we earn the bigger dollars because we know right from wrong. You either know how to operate the aircraft in question or you don't. You know the law or you don't. If the answer is you Don't know you should not be the Captain. If you are the Captain and someone is causing you so much distress maybe YOU are doing it wrong and it is time to back out of it gracefully.. . A Captain should take this type of treatment in his/her stride deal with it and still command a safe and efficiant operation, regardless of how difficult the day was for the individual to achieve it. ---- that is why you where promoted to the position of Captain! nothing to do with how long you'd been in the industry.

Happy retirement, MP. While it is regrettable to end a career under such a circumstance, you have the satisfaction of knowing you handled a trying situation with grace and dignity. Bravo.

Pigboat, nicely said!. .. .Ellion, what is your post doing here? What happened was AFTER the tech log had been signed in.. .. .Uncle Pete, know the story but never new this............. .. . "When she came to her final line check with me she still needed more training and I refered her to the Training Manager who checked her out. She was furious at the time and threatened to get her own back one day. Guess what???". .. .You were spot on. She will chop the power at 50' at vma+5kts on the F100 and THUMP it in. Say anything at choxs on and the waterworks flow. Will not accept constructive criticsm. Still needs more training!. .. .Jet A1 smells crap in the morning, ENJOY the smell of bacon and coffee in the morning Pete!

MP,. .. .Enjoy the retirement, and I feel for you with what you've had to enfdure for such long time.. .. .I know nothing of this story other that what I've read here, but one thing stands out unanswered (and perhaps I need to re read your original post more carefully if it's there), but why did they keep her on?. .. .PS

In what other job are you locked into a small dark room with another person for hours on end ?.. .. .This sort of thing is bound to happen sooner or later and requires fast and WISE managment action.. .As most of the pilot managment in the UK are ex-RAF and having left the service some time ago they are not best trained to deal with problems with females ,add to this a large heap of political correctness from the HR department and inactivity may sound like an atractive option.. .. .As we can see from MP,s problems this is not an option , fortunatly all of the female pilots i know hate anyone that plays the "girlie" card and are well up to the job and it is now time for some of the more traditional airline managements to get up to speed.

Darn right A and C, the last thing any woman pilot who has worked hard to make it in aviation needs someone who perpetuates the myth that women pilots depend more on sexual equality legislation than ability. . .. .But the funny thing is that I was reading this (hope you have a great retirement MP despite the circumstances) and couldn't help thinking that it kinda looks like MP himself has been a victim of sexual discrimination (on top of anything else). I mean how fast would they have acted if it had been the other way around?. .. .Just a thought...

Hi MP. .. .Sorry to read this... I have a question to raise here.. .. .What would have happened if the roles were reversed? Do you think you would have been treated any differently if she had taken the same course of action against you?. .. .From personal experience I have found that the 'PC' brigade nearly always come down in favour of the female. Any comments PPruNers?

MP,. .. .Is it correct that the lady in question had used the same "modus operandi" twice previously ?. .. .If so were the company aware? Were adequate measures in place to ensure the "safety" of male colleagues ?

A staggering amount of support for you Pete. Nevertheless someone has to act for the defence. So here goes.. .. .Your argument is 'sexual harrassment' against you. Your story only mentions the following:. .. . </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"> She also insisted on using a clip board that had pictures of partially clad males in clear view. . .. .she remarked to at least five line captains that she flew with,... " confidence has gone as a result of me staring at her breasts instead of training her". Then ... admitted... she had made up the entire story and that it was malicious, false and entirely without any foundation. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">Apart from the obvious advice not to use without any foundation in a story about breasts, I'm struggling to see what prompted such a severe response from you especially as it very sadly led you to leave flying.. .. .In retrospect do you wish you had played your cards differently?

Hellow everyone,. .. .I'm Mrs Pete,. .. .Just a few words while he's painting the stairs and I can get on line.. .. .Thank you all for your kind words and encouragement. I didn't realise just how many friend Pete had until this unfortunate incident took place.. .. .God Bless you all.. .. .GG <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" />

A & C. .. . </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">As most of the pilot managment in the UK are ex-RAF and having left the service some time ago they are not best trained to deal with problems with females ,add to this a large heap of political correctness from the HR department and inactivity may sound like an atractive option.. . </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">In this case the management concerned were all "Warm and Fuzzy" civilians, not an uncouth "soldier" to be seen. Had there been any ex-service managers involved I don't think they would have made the basic procedural errors which seem to have occurred. Remember that all servicemen have a basic grounding in disciplinary systems and should understand the vital importance of correct procedure. Anyway I think an ex-service manager would have known exactly what to do about a matter of integrity, for that is the root of the matter.. .. .RAGBAG. . . . <small>[ 08 March 2002, 13:03: Message edited by: RAGBAG ]</small>

I don't want names i just want to know which airline this happened in....

Any chance of an answer to my question too?

Absolutely no chance!. .. .MP

Oh, go on, or I might be forced to ask GlamGran