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MAN and the BBC
I have been told by a good reliable contact at Manchester Airport
that a BBC reporter has been working undercover on the airports security section for the last few months. Apparently a program about aviation security in this country will be broadcasted on 9/11 this year. Is this true, does anybody else know about this? |
Lots of fodder at Manchester Airport Security for exposes, especially in the management! :eek:
Just one example is a crew based in MAN with a new pilot on a temporary pass. Pilot has to remain on temp pass until Disclosure Scotland get their pathetic act together. This means that said pilot has to be signed through and has to be manually searched each time. Problem is that if said pilot isn't accompanied by ANOTHER pilot then said pilot can't pass through security. Doesn't matter that senior cabin crew who holds full pass issued by MAN Security and has been 'disclosed'. Senior cabin crew member cannot escort said pilot on temp pass through security. ANOTHER pilot has to be summonsed to sign for pilot on temp pass! :rolleyes: This is an edict from their 'security management'. Obviously, a full pass holder who is on the same crew as the temp pass holder is deemed not worthy unless they 'look' like a pilot. It hasn't dawned on the dipsticks who make these rules that the cabin crew member could, in theory, be a pilot. Also, it hasn't dawned on the 'management bod' that the vetting of the cabin crew is IDENTICAL to the vetting of the flight crew. The security don't even want to see licence or other photo ID. Just their temp pass and ANOTHER person dressed in a pilot uniform with a full pass. They ignore the fact that the pilot with the temp pass COULD take off their jacket, issue themselves with a ticket for the flight out of their own stock and board with the rest of the pax, which in theory would save a whole load of hassle and time wasting by security bods whose only real effectiveness is to stop pointy objects getting past their induction loops. :rolleyes: What on earth do the security bods think about positioning crew? I hope that the BBC do a real expose, without the over-dramatisation of some granny with a pencil sharpener and instead, open the publics eyes to the farce that is considered to be security. If they don't show it to be the cosmetic exercise to dupe the travelling public that all's well when in fact all it is is a money saving excuse because real security is far too expensive. Ooh... must go and have a lie down now. Don't get me started on security. :yuk: :mad: |
Maybe he is the over-zealous chap in T1 who clobbered about 4 of us in the knackers yesterday!!!:mad: :{ :sad:
Ball-ache in the right testi all afternoon the git!:ouch: |
The latest news is, John Donnison, the security manager has been removed from his post. This is only rumour at present.
Corrupt police chief handles airport safety By Robert Mendick 17 February 2002 The head of security at Manchester airport, which has witnessed two serious security breaches in recent weeks, is a former police chief with a criminal conviction for dishonesty. The revelation comes ahead of a 36-hour strike by security staff at the airport next weekend that could lead to lengthy delays for passengers. Airport bosses want to slash the average wage of security staff from £23,000 to £12,600 and cut up to 200 jobs, out of 600 security staff. One of the leading figures in the management negotiations is John Donnison, a former chief inspector with Leicestershire police. Donnison pleaded guilty in January 2000 to 14 charges of false accounting, and ordered to perform 200 hours' community service for fiddling his police expenses over a three-year period. His role in the negotiations has infuriated union leaders who accuse the airport of gross hypocrisy in employing him. Security staff have a clause in their contract that allows the airport to summarily sack them if they have a criminal conviction. Donnison is in charge of up to 700 staff and a total budget of reportedly more than £20m. He is believed to be on a salary of £70,000, £30,000 more than he earned as a police officer. Phil Craven, Transport and General Workers Union (TGWU) convenor at the airport, said: "Because of his past he has not got the integrity or the ability to build up the trust needed in the security department." Manchester airport confirmed Donnison is head of security with the job title of fire and security services business manager. A spokeswoman said: "We are not going to talk about it. It's in the past and nothing to do with ability to do the job. I am not going to go there. It's not relevant." Leicestershire police confirmed Donnison was a chief inspector working in the northern region at the time of the police investigation into his affairs. According to reports, he admitted inventing 236 car journeys to claim £1,200 while serving as an officer. A police spokeswoman said the investigation was taken "very seriously". The airport spokeswoman said she was confident next weekend's 36-hour stoppage would not cause any disruption to passengers. She said the airport wanted to cut average wages to what it claimed is a market rate of £12,600, but was offering staff compensation packages of as much as £62,000 to do so. The change in working conditions affects 590 security staff, who have been given notice their contracts will end on 25 April. They are being told to take new contracts on much less favourable terms. Unions are baffled by the airport's persistence in pursuing the cuts in the wake of worldwide security fears since 11 September. That has been compounded by security breaches at Manchester airport in recent weeks. Last week, a bag containing bomb-making equipment, guns, imitation explosives, three detonators and dummy bullets were smuggled on to a plane bound for Gatwick after they were missed by a security guard employed by private contractor Securicor ADI. The airport also employs private contractors but the unions point out this security breach was the result of trying to employ workers on the cheap. The weapons were planted by Global Air Training, to test security procedures. Journalists have also smuggled knives and other weapons onto a flight at Manchester. Dave McCall, TGWU regional spokesman, said: "Manchester aiport tells us the two breaches of security at the airport last week were not related to the dispute. That has got to be the biggest load of nonsense any of us have ever heard. Both the breaches took place in areas where cut price security has already been introduced at this airport. If they continue we will get that sort of breach happening over and over again." THE INDEPENDENT !7 February 2002 |
man and the bbc
if he exists, send him to west gate at 0600 each and every am, security there especially, seem to talk the job but dont do the job, i hv lost count of the no of times you leave bags etc in your vehicle on display in the back seat....and security never pick up on it, you put your stuff through the scanner...what for bcos 9 out of 10 times theirs no-one watching the damn thing anyway.
why do man security guards think they are better than everyone else who works there...they think they can enforce rules they dont have to stick to... on a remote stand last week, private security firm watching a/c, you know the firm i mean...i noticed a security agent with no id, asked him to see it, he showed it to me and i told him to wear it instead of having it in his pocket...to which he replied : but its new and its raining'.....pleassse if these are the people who look out for our safety - god help us.. by the way i told him to wear the id or i'd have his ass hauled of the airfield before he could say tosser of the week.. dont get me started on security..... :cool: |
truthnolies
it is true about the B.B.C they are under cover lets hope they do some good because the security at MAN leaves a lot to be desierd if you want to know how i know this PM me and i will tell you :ok: rampman |
How about we forget individuals and their alleged misdemeanours no matter what their current positions and concentrate instead on the real issue where security is concerned.
What is required is proper ,real, secure security, - not politicians pandering to the media or the public with pathetic proposals. What's needed is profiling, proper searches and appropriate punishments for offences. Don'you dare take a Leatherman or a corkscrew to work! You can take any sharp metal object through security onto any flight, even a craft knife like the 9/11 people used. Nothing has really changed since 9/11 and as all of us in the industry know- the flight deck door policy is nonsense, is driven by American politicians, and has done nothing except drag CRM between flightdeck and cabincrew back 10 years or more. |
oh i was hoping to be able to resist posting on this one - nope
Manchester is a disgrace, always has been, idiotic management who never bother to have a look around them, the taxiways are hopeless, need resufacing and repainting (but have for years) the docking systems are out of the 70's, the passenger walkways are never switched on, and as we all know, security is a joke, oh, and what the hell have they done with the road system ?? oh and they also managed to lose all the disclosure scotland forms. idiots, just idiots. :mad: :mad: :mad: |
Truth be said. If Mr Donnison is guilty as charged.As confirmed by the police authority, Why have the airport still got him working there.
Seems the higher and more incompitent you are...The more chance you have for promotion. So says the slug............ |
I can confirm Mr Donnison is a convicted felon, he was awaiting trial when he took over the running of the fire staion. He is now in charge of car parks. Word on the ground is it was C4 and not the BeeB that was playing at Mole.
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Just wondering how Mr Donnison, as boss of security at a major international airport, and presumably a holder of an airside pass, and a convicted felon?, got through Disclosure Scotland?
Long sentence, I know, but I'm mystified:confused: |
Probably cos those muppets at disclosure scotland lost his form. As they also have lost dozens of forms from my company. Loads of cabin crew from my company have had to submit new forms and arrange new references.
Get your act together. An increase in incompetence in various industries in the UK is driving me up the wall path. Sorry rant over |
Walk through the security arch.. No beep or anything..
Self important security chap insists looking under one's cap!! What for? Why would I hide a pair of tweezers under my cap when I'm sat in the flight deck next to a full set of tools and an axe!! MAN security.. PATHETIC. :mad: |
BN2A,
It is absolutely 100% essential that they check under your hat. You might be hiding something under there that would allow you to gain control of the aircraft!;) Cheers, HaM |
Convicted ex Cop Still at Work!
Not sure if there is any disappointment in the pipeline for John Donnison..... but he was at his desk this morning and is due back tomorrow (Thursday 19th)...then away til Tuesday 24th.
By the way...these revelations about MAN security are nothing new..... some of us found it a shambles for donkeys' years before 9/11....glad I've left the party thanks! bm |
BN2A,
Probably looking for the carbon fibre knife that you were going to use to hijack yourself. The serious question is, in the era of PC and litigation would he/she have insisted that the Sikh male or Muslim woman remove their respective turban / bourka (please excuse spelling)? This is not a racially motivated point, as the same could apply to the caucasian from Wherever with his head in bandages. However, the security officer is more likely to encounter one of the former and does their training cover these eventualities? Having spent many years working with security staff I am only too aware of how bad it is in the UK, not just in the aviation industry, but you pay peanuts.........(before anyone takes offence that remark doesn't apply to all - there are some very good security officers out there). It was mentioned earlier that the average wage at MAN was £23K (prior to any reduction). How is that average reached (Managerial salaries included?) and what hours are worked to achieve it - I'm not disputing the accuracy of the post but it seems quite high for the security industry generally and is possibly only attained through working long hours on a regular basis, unless of course aviation security officers are paid more than their general security counterparts. And long hours of often mind-numbing routine = tiredness, lack of concentration, apathy, complacency, etc. It's possible that looking under the hat of the flight crew was the highlight of the day!!! |
They cannot even keep staff at Manchester, they are dragging them in off thedole, for £12,000 a year. Then they leave and go back on the dole. Would you work for 12 hours a day with only an hour break, on the frisk for over 4 hours at a time. No wonder NO BODY is at all interested in what goes through or what happens.
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It is absolutely 100% essential that they check under your hat. Sorry, you've probably got your own rug but to keep the peace. |
they look under your hat to make sure your not carrying any 'top secret documents' that could be used against the western world in a 'situation' :ok:
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Apparently i am told, they have to look under your hat or anybody elses because you could be concealing something.
It is a bit of a farce but it is part of the protocol laid down by the DFT and we must remember these guys and girls are on CCTV 24/7 and i believe a number have been suspended this week due not doing certain checks correctly. |
The last I heard about these muppets, was that they are far to busy to search you...unless you have a spoon.
Because they were to busy Stabbing each other in the back........ Talk about sticking together. So says the slug......... |
In the 'Sun' today,
'BAG CHECK SHAMBLES' The BBC is set to broadcast a shock expose on lax airport security to coincide with the 3rd anniversary of 9/11. An undercover women reporter got a job at Manchester airport in may checking luggagae for knives. She was given top level security clearance after using bogus work and character references. The reporter armed with hidden cameras and microphones smuggled into the terminal building, taped failures to carry out baggage checks. |
I doubt she'd be given a top level security clearance, although she would have had some background check. This embarrassing exposure might explain a recent newsletter from the Pass Office quote: The Pass Office will now check all the personal details of the applicant also of the references provided against a number of national databases. unquote.
Does this mean they didn't. Renewing passes is always a highlight for Manchester staff. Unenviable job I would think. |
The program will be broadcasted on:
BBC1 2100hrs Tuesday 7th September 2004 'Whistleblower' Michelle Cox is the undercover reporter for the BBC Worked for MAN on T3 from May this year until very recently. Hopefully this should show the world what a joke MAN security really is and how MAN puts profit and getting the Queue down before Security. "Get them through as fast as you can so they can spend spend spend"!!!!!. Heads should roll for this at senior level. we will see. MAN is probably the only airport in the world that sacked halve its workforce and slashed the remainders wages by over 40% including inferior terms and conditions with Sh*** rosters only MONTHS AFTER 9/11 |
MAN is no better or worse than any other UK airport. What is the point of making a big deal about how you can 'smuggle' razor blades onto an aircraft? The idea behind an airside pass is that you have, within the guidelines issued by the government, been checked out and deemed trustworthy and that you have no hostile intent. If this doesn't happen there will be no aircraft maintenance because tools won't be allowed airside, and we may as well all give up.
Also anyone who thinks MAN is such a bad airport should really get out more. Try working at LHR's central area for a while, MAN is absolute heaven by comparison. This forum has people complaining that security is too lax, and others moaning because they got searched! At least the security staff at MAN are usually polite! |
Since 9/11 airport security procedures other than the CRC have hardly changed as anyone in the industry knows. What has dramatically changed is the number of idiots who try to undermine the system. I am shocked and appalled at some of the comments in this thread! I cannot believe so many people have the same mentality as these journalists who barely have a brain cell to rub together who go around telling the world how to breach airport security. YES I am sure professional terrorists will already be aware of these security lapses however come on lets not encourage all the psychopaths in the world to further frighten the public. I believe that ars****es like the sun reporter at BHX last week and if true the undercover reporter at MAN should be prosecuted and thrown in jail, how do we know they are not terrorists posing as journalists posing as airport workers LOCK THESE PEOPLE UP!!!
The DOT regularly sends undercover operatives in to probe airport security we do not need it on the front page. As for the security manager at MAN he would be subject to the higher level of CRC and if convicted of fraud would not qualify and hence could not hold an airside pass or presumably the post of security officer let alone manager. We all are aware of problems with the system and it will never be perfect terrorists will always find a way in, all we can do is make it as difficult as possible. This means not leaving details on this web site which is monitored by the press I am sure, don’t give them a free story and if any members of the press are reading this please try and be responsible don’t “Sex up” the facts like you did with last weeks story in Birmingham and remember B S stories that are becoming the norm not only endanger everyone’s safety but put thousands of people out of jobs when tragedies occur! Danny – please ensure both yourself and your forum is used responsibly in such matters! Before anyone says it no I do not work in security or ever have done I am speaking merely from many years of working in the industry. RW |
Why doesn't MAN Apt take the reporter to court for making false statements to gain an airside ID?
Lets face it items were smuggled in to Colditz which had a reasonable level of security I believe, so some smart alec is always going to be able to smuggle something into an airport. The reporter has broken the rules and regs deliberately to make money for their company and possibly to cause fear amongst the public. If they or their company really cared about security they would take their findings to the DfT and work with them, without publicity, to rectify the wrongs. They have no interest in security whatsoever. |
Well said SN, lets put these people behind bars before they put us all out of work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
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Doing that is terrorist like behaviour falsifying docs to gain airside access surely the Terrorism act thing says something about doing it otherwise terrorists themselves can only take advantage. How do we know that they aren't already trying it on wasn't it on the news that someone had plans to blow Heathrow, then again the charts and pictures shown are readily available on the internet. I feel the BBC is digging itself a small grave after doing this attempting to expose our airports to the worried public which can only be bad news for operators, especially for Manchester my most favourite. :D
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Throw them in jail?...Thats not going to happen.
The offence of giving false details to get an airside pass is under the Aviation and Maritime Security Act 1990. It is only triable at Magistrates Court and only punishable by a fine. However, one of the factors to be taken into account before someon's taken to court in the UK is the Public Interest. Now, uncovering loopholes in security is to be honest going to be seen as in the public interest. The DOT do send thier inspectors round to test things but obviously don't find everything. So the chances of the Crown Prosecution Service supporting a prosecution are zero. |
It is not in the public interest to shout from the front page of a newspaper, or a prime time TV programme, that it is easy to commit acts of terror at an airport or on an aircraft.
The public interest would be served by working with the DfT Inspectors on a long term and workable plan to close the loopholes. Once this has been achieved by all means put it in the papers and on the TV how you helped close the loophole, but to do it beforehand is creating a period of vulnerability whilst a response is cobbled together! I thought giving information to the enemy was treason? |
Thats one way of looking at it yes, however, the fact is they have pointed out loopholes. The same as the sun did. Given the events in Russia, where the press don't have the same freedom, then the public interest would be seen to have been served in this case. Please remember that you have your point of view which is probably not shared by the majority of the public. As to working with the DFT, do you know they didn't?
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It'll be interesting to see what is done after the programme has aired. Tradition has it that in slamming the stable doors our Politicians, Regulators and Managers under pressure to "do something!" look to the legitimate users of the system for a result. After the tragedy of Dunblane we saw handguns removed from the ownership of registered users. This of course resulted in an immediate and lasting reduction in gun crime.
The awful events of 11 Sep see us jumping through DoT hoops in a flurry of paperwork with the pointless confiscation of corkscrews and nailclippers, all in the name of security. But hey, it allows the unholy trio above to point and say "something has been done!" But it hasn't improved security.....not one jot. For that they would have to genuinely check out applicant's backgrounds. |
bjcc, I think that it would have been noticed if the programme makers had been working with the DfT. Procedures at all Apts would have been tightened prior to the exposee on the programme, and the programme makers would no doubt have mentioned that thanks to their public spirited work the loopholes had been closed.
That none of the above happened is a strong indication IMHO that they didn't work with the DfT. |
Surley not
I am sure the loopholes have now been closed, and the BBC Program has not been shown yet. End result is the same excpet that this way its difficult for the Civil Servents to drag thier feet. The potential for rolling of ministers heads being wonderful for focusing civil servent minds (about the only thing that does unless thier allocation of rich tea biccies is wrong) Pre 9/11 the DOT inspectors turned up at LHR and funnily enough the airport always seemed to know about it...shock that! So unless they have changed vastly then at the moment they arn't much of a test. I have no love of the press, but then again I have no real desire to be on an aircraft that someone has done something sneeky to either, so as long as the result is that I am safe I couldn't give a toss how that result is achieved. |
Airport security 'exposed' on TV
CLAIMS of poor security at Manchester Airport will be made in a BBC documentary next week. Undercover reporter Michelle Cox spent three months working as a security officer at the airport. Her findings, which include hidden camera footage, will be broadcast in an hour-long programme called Whistleblower to be screened on BBC1 on Tuesday at 9pm. It is timed to coincide with the third anniversary of the September 11 terror attacks on New York and Washington, when hijackers bypassed security. It will include allegations that security staff waved passengers through without carrying out body searches - in order to tackle huge queues of passengers building up at peak periods. It is understood one female security worker is recorded saying "We cheat" when asked about the rate of body searches. Soon after the September 11 attacks, bosses at Manchester Airport were criticised for security cost-cutting. Wages were cut and jobs were axed at a time when America was ploughing more money into security at airports. The cost-cutting was designed to reduce landing fees to attract more airlines, especially budget carriers, to Manchester. Struggled It resulted in a series of damaging strikes. At the time, the airport was hit by three separate allegations of security breaches, once when a government inspector managed to get bomb equipment through a scanner undetected as part of a test; and twice when journalists smuggled blades on board aircraft. It is known that airport bosses have struggled to recruit and keep staff because of the wages on offer and the unsocial shifts required. Last month, the M.E.N. uncovered a security loophole when a reporter was able to gain access to restricted areas of Terminal 2 by punching a widely-available code into a door lock. A Manchester Airport spokesman said: "The safety of the travelling public and our employees is our highest priority. "Manchester Airport's procedures, systems and equipment are part of a robust effective defence system, comprising several different levels, which changes and evolves as necessary. "Together with regular reviews and inspections, this provides an intricate system of checks and cross-checks which, taken together, provide a robust security net. "The integrity of this security system works as a whole and is not dependent upon any one single element. " "We take any allegations of shortcomings extremely seriously and any breaches in procedure are rectified immediately." Do you feel safe at Manchester Airport? John Scheerhout Manchester Evening News 4 September 2004 |
MAN BBC Whistleblower
Not in the Public intrest. I read in some of the posts, Me thinks it,s very much in the public intrest, as they are the one,s paying our wages,and least we forget it. We have a duty of care to all our passengers and crew to ensure that they get from A-B safely.I have worked for several years in aviation security both mainline and now Corporate.When you employ staff who really are not intrested in what they are doing and just turn up for wages ,then you have the wrong people working for you. In the UK we are fully compliant to every rule imaginable, from DFT and JAR and anything else Brussels wants to throw at us. If we can,t get the Basics right then their is no point in wasting time and effort at throwing people in uniforms who are not motivated trained or intrested in doing quite a important job properly. A reality check is required by MAN management and some other airports. Stop Paying Lip service to security.
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From the BBC News website:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3629336.stm BBC finds airport security lapses A BBC investigation has revealed "shocking" security lapses at Manchester Airport, programme makers claim. A reporter working as an aviation security officer was encouraged to flout Department for Transport rules on bag searches, the BBC says. It said she also found planes left open and unattended overnight and that staff knowingly used faulty metal detectors. The airport said travellers' safety was its "highest priority" and any breaches in procedure were fixed "immediately". A spokesman said: "Manchester Airport's procedures, systems and equipment are part of a robust effective defence system comprising several different levels, which changes and evolves as necessary. "Together with regular reviews and inspections this provides an intricate system of checks and cross-checks which taken together provide a robust security net. "We take any allegations of shortcomings extremely serious and any breaches in procedure are rectified immediately." 'We cheat' Journalist Michelle Cox spent ten weeks working at the airport. Programme makers said on one occasion around a thousand passengers passed through the airport from Pakistan but only three random bag searches took place. "Michelle was told by colleagues to exaggerate the figures, with one workmate openly declaring, `We cheat'," a statement said. "Michelle also discovered planes left open and unattended on the tarmac overnight with easy access provided by the steps, which had been left attached, contrary to security rules." The reporter was also able to gain access to one of the planes and film undisturbed, the programme said. The BBC also claims the film will show a metal detector failing to sound when a knife and gun were passed through it as part of a test. It said: "The detector failed to go off on a number of occasions and was shut down. "The second detector in the area was tested with a large pair of scissors and also failed to go off on a number of occasions. "This one was not shut down and staff continued to allow approaching passengers through security using the unreliable machine." Security team leaders are also alleged to have tipped off colleagues about covert DfT inspectors, phoning their physical descriptions through to colleagues. The BBC show screens on Tuesday at 2100 BST on BBC One as part of the Whistleblower series. |
BBC in on the scare game
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3629336.stm
wow, airplanes open overnight!! :bored: Well lets sneak a nice little surprise into their Birmingham offices overnight then and let the competition loose. :E |
Programme makers said on one occasion around 1,000 passengers passed through the airport from Pakistan but only three random bag searches took place. |
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