Tough one...
I was operating a number of relief flights out of Basra this time last year, mind you, the area was a lot less volatile as it is now!
But I also didnt get paid anymore to be there so fools on me!
:\

Gentleman, Ladies,


I could not resist in replying to this interesting thread.

As other several pilots, I also did my share working in a Middle East country, and I want to state that always they treaded me with respect and kindness.

I never felt threatened or in danger (except when driving) anytime.

It seems that nowadays, the time some people spend in the road going to hotel and barricading themselves inside the room they believe that they are safe, and they are acting cleverly.

Unfortunately, reality proves that things are different, and the kind of hardware existent, can go trough walls, and windows, without mention a car.

TV and papers are full of pictures proving that.

I wonder why the region did not have these kinds of violent events, five or six years before; and I believe this is food for thought.


Safe Flying to all.


Mercurius

With my experience in the Middle East, Northern Ireland, Africa, etc., it is a truism to say that 99% of the people you meet are decent honest people.

The evil people are in a minority but are often very dangerous.

Not a flyer but have been to places with broadly comparable security situations.

The key phrase in the FCO advice that Crash1 quotes is:

ie you need to be informed and to evaluate the information you have concerning your situation and actions both in the air and on the ground.

Your airlines should be giving you a security briefing and/or you should have a local contact in whom you can have reasonable confidence. If you do not receive a briefing and do not have a good contact, this is an indication that your carrier has not evaluated the risks.

If they then fire you on refusal to fly, you could have a good case in law. Even if not, this is a relatively benign type of fire.

I think it should also be remembered that danger doesn't necessarily come from people aiming for you! Terrorist/rebel activity directed at other targets could ruin your day, as could mob action. I wouldn't buy any real estate in Saudi at the moment!

I believe as a non citizen you probably couldn't anyway.

If I had to return to Saudi, Allah forbid, I would ensure that I was not an easy target - no regular routine or company-booked hotel and not identifyable as a Brit or American airline employee.

However, no company offers enough money to persuade me to go.

Just a note of irony here.

Two of our pilots were walking back to their hotel, very close to DCA. One guy noticed another guy walking towards him. As the pilot gradually curved away from the other guy's path, the stranger still headed towards him. The pilot (both were in their street clothes) was at arm's length and luckily saw the attacker raise a pistol from under his coat-but the pilot was very quick and used his hand to knock the gun down. The pistol fired and the bullet went into his foot-the pilot apparently recovered to flying status. The pilot was also the victim of terrorism by a home-grown 'bro". But not enough blood to make "good copy".

The attacker was a typical low-life gang member (gangsta) who planned to be "initiated", after he had shot a stranger in the stomach. This was a few years ago, about a mile from the city airport in the US capitol!

They achieved their results during the Spanish election, with just one terrible attack. It reminds me vaguely of the Munich Agreement of 1938, and quite a few politicians who prefered to be intimidated (or isolationist). Let the terrorists dictate to all of us how to live, what to eat, how to, ehhh--- vote.

And no kidding about any of this. We were in New York City on September 11, 2002, went to Germany last summer, and will travel a bit in southern England this summer-just got back.:)

Saudi hypocrisy
 

Having visited and worked in the Saudi Arabian royal dictatorship, I feel qualified to add a few words.

This year's Hajj was highlighted by the frequent presence of very drunk and garrulous young local men at breakfast in our Jeddah hotel, in the company of Russian/East European women of a certain profession. And yet the nation has the audacity to preach abstinence and jail Westerners for alcohol crimes.

Oft times, us flight crews were abused by passing motorists on the Corniche, who liked to yell "F... off, American B......s" at us. And we were delivering their pilgrims to their place of worship, safely and politely. Be sure, no reaction to their abuse was the only policy, painful though it felt.

I could continue, but hope my examples are evidence of a misfit country which poses great risks to civilized folks the world over.

I won't be going back to this dreadful place to work and fly, and many colleagues feel the same way.

This book revolves around the history of Saudi Arabia and the corruption of the royal family. According the author, Saudi Arabia is a fundementalist ticking timebomb and he believes that (just like during the Sjah of Iran era) the US/CIA can not keep this family in power forever.

Once the problems in Saudi Arabia get bigger and the situation grows out of hand, aviation can brace itself for the worst crisis in it's history, dwarfing the 1970's oilcrisis and the fallout of the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in 1990.

I wonder how many solar panels it will take to power an A380? :uhoh:

Another slant on this subject.

In 1999 I took my wife on a delivery flight out of J-Berg to North America via Europe and the north Atlantic route.

Jeddah was a planned fuel stop and my wife had a visa as a crew member.

We had an engine problem just after take off resulting in a return to Jeddah.

We spent five days in Jeddah and my wife has a whole new outlook on different cultures, would she return? Never.

I myself returned on two different occasions for about a month each.

Would I go back?

Not since the the area has become so unstable since 911.

But like everywhere else on earth there are good and bad, its the evil ones that I worry about.

Chuck

Al Qaeda making threats
 

The BBC (among others) is reporting that Al Qaeda has just issued a threat to "Western and American" airlines operating in Saudi Arabia. They are also issuing threats against westerners in Saudi, as well as compound guards. Looks like they're ratcheting up the tension level a bit more.

Since there are no US carriers, the remaining European carriers are BA, Lufthansa, Swiss, KLM and Turkish. Not sure if they're including airlines of moderate Arab and Asian countries (e.g. Emirates, Kuwait Airways etc.) as moderate. Something tells me they won't discriminate.

How effective they will be in this is anyone's guess, but it does of course raise more concerns about safety in Saudi.

Western Airliners May Be al-Qaida Target
 

These idiots are starting to get REALLY ANNOYING!!! :mad:

Western Airliners May Be al-Qaida Target

Almost half of all Saudis said in a poll conducted last year that they have a favorable view of Osama bin Laden's sermons and rhetoric, but fewer than 5 percent thought it was a good idea for bin Laden to rule the Arabian Peninsula.

The poll involved interviews with more than 15,000 Saudis and was overseen by Nawaf Obaid, a Saudi national security consultant.

It was conducted between August and November 2003, after simultaneous suicide attacks in May 2003 when 36 people were killed in Riyadh.

:\ :\ ....still having doubt about if it's time to go????:uhoh:

Thanks to evryone for all their replies. It seems to have proved a more thought provoking subject than I first thought.

A couple of points:

Engineer, you said that going straight to the hotel was probably alright. However those who have recently been shot at whilst parked at traffic lights might disagree.

Comical Ali, your opinion that ordinary flight crew should be ok, I could have agreed with this until the statement made above that declares war (in a manner of speaking) on all things western, including transportation.

I think that things are getting even worse in future. Sure some of the comments made are correct but it still is everyone´s own butt in the fire.
Unfortunately none of us are able to forecast what will happen next week or so. I would opt to stay out time being...
Blues

BA will not be nightstopping their crews in Riyhad or Jeddah from today until further notice.

Flights will still operate but crews to slip in Kuwait.

Seems like a smart move.

Would I STAY in Saudi Arabia
 

My company is traying to get another pilot (For more than 3 months) to fly with me .... but so far no luck ... wonder why???
And guess ... would I stay longer????
Been here for more than 3 years now and I'm seriously considering other jobs in other countries ...
Most of the postings are correct, it is very close to hell.... specially in Summer ...:) The radical are taking over and there is nobody that can do a D@#* thing about it.
No more trips to downtown, no more trips to the Zuk, no more walking around even in big Supermarkets, the looks you get are terrifying...
Guy we will see the fall of the Kingdom pretty soon ...
Please Keep it safe.... Do your best not to come.... and to help a Ppruner friend get the H@$#% out of here ...:sad:

Gotta give some sense of life here in Saudi - sure folk are being killed - the journo this week and then the American followed into his own villa & blown away - tragic and very sad; unnecessary and to what end? Sure it's creating huge uncertainty among mainly the expat community but also the locals.

But terrifying looks in shops :E - that's BS. Call me mad but I'm still down at the souk a few times a week & have had no hassles. Schools out & there are many kids who aren't coming back but if it wasn't for what I read in the paper or see on the TV I wouldn't know about it. Please, I'm not suggesting that my viewpoint is a global one but life is the same for me as it was; apart from what is obviously going on. If I feel like a shwarama I go out & buy one. If I need a software I go to the souk, if I feel like Turkish tonight I hit my favorite Turkish eatery.

Things are changing, sure. But it hasn't affected me. Yet.

4HP

Interesting is LA safer than Riyadh