BA reject pilot's pay proposal.
 

BA have rejected BALPA's very reasonable pay proposal of RPI for 2004. Its funny that nobody told the Director of Flight Ops or MS!

Nothing will stand in the way of our senior management reaching the target of a 10% operating margin - and getting their 50% salary bonus as a result.

This comes as no surprise, does it?

BA have no intention whatsoever of settling with the pilots, on the contrary. The Prince of Darkness sees his moment to destroy once and for all the ‘pilot force’ in BA. He considers us as no more than donkeys, and stupid ones at that. He also believes that he is the anointed one that will deliver flagged out planes flown by non-British pilots like cheap no-frills junks on some eastern sea.

I’m extremely concerned here, because BALPA is sleepwalking into oblivion. They have totally underestimated the lengths that this odious little man is prepared to go to to achieve his aim.

We can look forward to two possible outcomes this summer. A humiliation of professional pilots in BA with a scorched earth slaughter of terms and conditions, or a bitter and bloody industrial dispute with some of the most vicious and nasty tactics in the history of UK industrial relations. I’m not exaggerating, I was there last time.

Sadly, many of my colleagues couldn’t give a toss. They’re either already crystallised and fat dumb and happy, or they’re too sacred and don’t want to rock the boat, or they’re so young and having too much fun to get involved.

Either way I am very pessimistic about the ability of BALPA to overcome this innate lethargy amongst the workforce and make a stand. If they don’t, then the profession in the UK will never be the same again.
http://www.sausagenet.freeserve.co.u...rb/roohorn.gif
I’ll take on the competition anyday! It’s my management I can’t beat!

Roobarb,

If your mate Custard is still around, tell him to make his last stand and call in the Cavalry...your little big horn approaches.
;)

Roobarb,

I would expect the second of your outcomes. It will be less than pretty and at worst, if the (mis)management don't handle it properly, will be the end of BA as we know it.

I would suggest that if we, as a group, do nothing then we deserve everything which is inflicted upon us such as the future loss of NAPS, Bidline and other lesser T&Cs. Therefore we should stand up for ourselves. We have nothing to lose.

Dig your heels in and fight guys and gals
or you will end up in the same CRAP situation as Ryanair
with a flask of coffee in your nav bag
(IF you can gat it past jobsworth at the security
gate)

Pod doesn't realise the strength of feeling on the line. Nor the contempt that with which he is held. He has deliberately made it so that BALPA have no choice but to strike: all managers in the company to get 50% salary as a bonus when BA reach the magic 10%, whilst the pilots have been offered 1 weeks salary.

Eventually BA T&C's get reflected as the benchmark for all the negotiations for every UK company. If BALPA lose this one then UK aviation will enter a dark age for pilots. Every company will want to take on its flight crew. BALPA will be dead in the water. The guys have the strength and power to win this battle but do they have the will. It's time the greed of the large corporations was held to account.

Perhaps we should affiliate ourselves with the RMT?

Roobarb

With respect, did you ever believe that BALPA would ever be any different? I've been in this business a long time, as I know you have been too, and nothing ever changes.

IMHO, you'd be better keeping your 1% in your wallet, having a local agreement with your colleagues and getting on with your career.

Apart from BA, very few airlines want BALPA, they are just saddled with them and would be happy to get shot of them, but they canot beacuse of previous local agreements. BALPA want and need the money to survive, as a parasite on the back of English pilots.

When needed, they have a history of falling very short of their members expectations. Collectively they appear to support the BA pilots, but individually they rarely rise to the challenge as evidenced many times before. Ask any Dan Air pilot or more specifically talk to the widow of poor Glen Stewart!

As for those pilots that contribute their 1% salary and don't work for BA, that is surely a 'no brainer'!

Enough said

ummm, I think that's the idea Jack:hmm: :hmm:

Ask Virgin. Think the boys and girls got their 1% back a few times over don't you?? Surely a no brainer?

Pip Pip:}

When will it be acknowledged that the 'golden age' of flying is over and that airlines can only survive if operating costs are brought into line with what the punters actually pay?

5 years ago flying economy on a national carrier could be quite an expensive affair, but now the fares are getting lower and lower - and even BA claims to offer cheaper fares than Easyjet and Ryanair on certain routes!
What's the result for the company's staff? Blatantly obvious surely.............Lower fares WILL have to equate to lower crew operating costs and this is reflected in a general management attitude that is now proving unpopular with so many.
As stated, the 'golden age' is over as airline crews are now simply management targets whose costs need to be reduced as much as possible, who need to work their 'service staff' to the maximum and who need to pay as little as the airline can get away with!

I can just see one of the targets on BA's managements office walls....highlighted in red - "Pay them less, work them harder!"

Jerry
Being a poorly paid engineer who has to constantly work with high paid cabin crew and Pilots on 6 or 7 times what i get you would think i would be on your bandwagon,the reason i am not is BA could make its 10% operating margin they just need to ditch all the deadwood they have offered the 50% too to acheive it - BA is not a business regardless what they say but it has the potential to make lots and lots of money,RE and his minders just refuse to face the truth!

BALPA - thanks to the unstinting work of a relatively small number of people - did Virgin proud by mobilising the opinion of those who would normally not get involved. They made sure everyone knew of past injustices and anticipated future injustices and persuaded all pilots that, unless they fought, the future was pretty bleak. It worked. But it needed some very dedicated people on the CC, and some hard decisions from the troops on how far they were prepared to go.

The Virgin situation was an example of self-respect triumphing over self-interest. It can be replicated elsewhere....!

Jack the Lad wrote:

BALPA want and need the money to survive, as a parasite on the back of English pilots.

Yeh we in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland don't have em :}

There was me thinking it was British

You ignorant tw*t.

Ah the Virgin myth. Taking it's place among the other myths such as 'we will get you out of jail' 'defend you from the beastly management' and 'get you better terms and conditions'. Sure Virgin will get a large pay rise if they get a corresponding increase in profit, no evidence of it yet though. No doubt the brave boys of the CC had Mr Branson quivering in fear to achieve this amazing jam tomorrow (well maybe) deal. The forces of the market will inevitably destroy the established cosy practices of sixties still evident at BA, the future is Orange.

Ah, Mr Carruthers, tongue firmly lodged up management's backside as usual. You must truly like the taste. An invidious and pitiful position to be in really, rejected by your once peers yet never accepted by those who have only ever worn suits. I've often wondered about your sort, haven't lost any sleep over it though.

You may well be correct in stating that the future is orange, but it only holds true if those on the front line are prepared to tollerate a second rate career with no quality of life. Even the stupid wise up sooner or later.......hopefully.

Carruthers

Your "Virgin myth" has been arriving in my pay packet since last summer.

No point letting the facts get in the way eh?

Ah, Carruthers :hmm: Talking bollox with aplomb. Well done.

Oh, by the way... my (Virgin) pay is around 12% more now than it was this time last year, and I'm about to get a nice little rise on top of that thanks to the profit we made in 2003-4.

Would you like to revise your post? :rolleyes:

Good on you Scottie, took the words right out of my mouth.... :ok:

As for:

That just plain daft!

If I could second Hot Wings sentiments....what do we have to lose? For years I have stomached earning less than Cabin Crew and Watersiders. Just as I come into earning the going rate for the job, it seems BA want to stuff us all again. Statements such as "the golden age of flying is over" miss the fact that BA is a goldmine if it is run properly. i.e Benchmarking across the company. Sorting out the massive absenteeism. The problem BA has is not the "grossly inflated " salaries that some peopl are on for the job, but the fact that some of them only turn up to work when they have nothing better to do. Sort these problems out and we can all turn this airline around without plonkers like P o D

hah, if only we had the unity of membership that a traditional union such as the RMT. Can you imagine the railway workers sitting back and letting their passengers be driven by trainee train drivers who had to pay more than the passengers to get to their destination?

If you think that is a joke, you are not going to believe that some airlines are actually letting their junior co-pilots pay for the privilege of their line training, never mind just the type rating. These co-pilots are a part of the operational crew of the aircraft and have decided that the only way to get any experience is to pay for it. And guess what? There are airlines out there that will gladly take their money and put them in the right hand seat. These airlines take the money from these trainees and have no qualms about the fact that the trainee is actually paying far more than the passengers down the back to reach their destination, both ways.

So, if you think Balpa are going to get any of us organised enough to do anything about a pay rise at BA, just have a look at the furore about some of the crew on some flights paying more than their passengers. The RMT would let the employers charge their newly recruited train drivers for the privilege of sitting in the drivers cab to gain experience. Yes, sure they would. :rolleyes: