Egyptian aircraft down.
 

Breaking news on Sky News indicate a charter aircraft has crashed in Egypt.

Reports are saying that it is an airline called Air Flash. Leaving CAI with 141 onboard, mostly French pax. Will post back with any news I find.

BBC News 24 saying it went off radar at 3am Cairo time. Wreckage spotted in the sea.

Quick internet search reveals Flash Airlines operates two B733's.

2004 isn't boding well for aviatiors. :(

An Egyptian charter plane with 135 passengers and six crew members on board has crashed into the Red Sea - all are feared dead.

It happened shortly after take off from the coastal resort of Sharm el-Sheikh, Cairo airport officials said.


Most of the passengers were French tourists, they added.

Egypt's state television station said the plane was heading to France.

Pieces of wreckage from the Boeing 737 were found in the sea about nine miles south of Sharm el-Sheikh.

The civil aviation authority in Cairo said the plane disappeared from radar screens at 4:44 am, minutes after taking off from Sharm el-Sheikh airport.

The plane belonged to the private Egyptian company Flash Air

Sky News Updated 7.30am GMT

Reckage was found in the Red Sea 9 miles south of the resort Sharm el Sheikh where they departed from. The Aircraft dissapeared from Radar at 04:44 according to officials in Cairo.

The aircraft bound for France with mainly french tourists was being opperated by a Flash Air 737. There was about 135pax and 6 crew members onboard.

Such a sad event.

CAIRO, Egypt Jan. 3 — A charter airliner with 135 people aboard most of them French tourists crashed into the Red Sea shortly after takeoff early Saturday from the resort of Sharm el-Sheikh, according to airport officials in Cairo. No survivors were immediately found.
The Boeing 737 jet took off shortly before 5 a.m. (10 p.m. EST) and quickly disappeared from radar about seven miles south of the airport, airport officials said, speaking on customary condition of anonymity.





The officials said 127 passengers and eight crew members were aboard the jet operated by the private Egyptian company Air Flash en route to Cairo, and most were French tourists.

Rescue teams rushed to the scene but found no immediate survivors.

An initial statement from the Ministry of Civil Aviation called the crash an "accident" and said crews were searching for the wreckage. It gave no ideas on the possible cause.



Copyright 2003 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

Assuming that it is 'Flash Airlines' <-- click for the link

:sad:

Flight FSH604 Heading for CDG.

STD 0510 STA 0900.

They operate 2 737s, built in 1993.

Flash Airlines Boeing 737-300 fleet with 148 seats configuration all Y (Economy) class in addition to the operating cabin crew, 25 rows with 29 inch / with reclining seats and convenient table meals with cup holders, TV screen & headphones.


Flash Airlines fleet Boeing 737-300, is equipped with powerful CFM 56-3C1 engines, with 22000 ibs / thrusts and the up-to-date computerized navigational instruments such as WAS II and GPS; the take-off weight is 63276 KGs is pressurized, to ceiling is 37000 feet, and the average cruising speed is Mach 0.74.


Flash Airlines qualified pilots have a minimum of 5000 hours each, and long experience of flying domestically and internationally.

Flash Airlines qualified Engineers are certified by the Egyptian Civil Aviation Authorities to perform light maintenance up to 8A checks for our fleet.

Flash Airlines both aircrafts are insured for legal and third party liability and passenger, liability by El Shark Insurance Company for an amount of 550 Millions USD for each aircraft.
Head Office
166 B El Hegaz St. Heliopolis. Cairo, Egypt.
Tel: (20-12) 3903254.
Fax: (20-2) 6240641.
SITA: CAIHPCR

Crystal Ball
 

The Egyptian aviation authorities immediately labelled it an accident,
before the wreckage or black box's are even found.!!!

Wirraway

The last paragraph off the wires...

Quote:

There was no immediate word on the cause of the crash but an official source at the Civil Aviation Ministry said the plane appeared to have had an accident.

Unquote.

Wonder how he reached that conclusion!!

It was this one http://www.airliners.net/open.file/306502/M/
Initially bound for Cairo, then CDG. French TV is reporting 129 French pax.

Cheers

Wirraway
What else can you call it at this stage ?

Perhaps the use of the word 'accident' is meant to imply that this disaster was not planned:

a) An unexpected and undesirable event, especially one resulting in damage or harm
b) An unforeseen incident
(from 'dictionary.com')

Let's not get petty about semantics and express our condolences to those who have lost a loved one.

I think what they meant was that is was not a terrorist bomb that brought it down.

Sorry, I thought an aviation authority would just say 'Cause
unknown' untill they get some facts.

Just looking at 737 'accidents' over the past 30yrs and note
this one will rank as the 2nd worst if no survivors are found.

Source: http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi_bin/v...i?aircraft=737

Wirraway

Condolences to all.
Please dont get into arguments about whether its an accident or not as it only happened about 6 hours ago and theres already banter.
Lets just hope these last two weeks (Benin crash etc) are an exception to what had been quite a good run without any major accidents/incidents.

Well said, No comment.

:ugh:

Deepest sympathies to all those who have families and loved ones that have been involved in this tragic accident. Not a good start to 2004 for them.

Lets just hope the cause of the accident can be discovered and we all learn from it.

'Learn from the mistakes of others as you won't live long enough to make them all yourself!'

Lets just hope 2004 gets better. :-(

Bit early to be calling it an accident, particularly as Tony Blair is holidaying in Sharm at the moment.

Not an accident, but rather "very obviously a major malfunction", as NASA would say.

A dreadful tragedy for all concerned, whatever the euphemism.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3364795.stm

BBC now confirms 148 on board and no survivours,
this is the most fatalities in the history for the B737.

There were 135 passengers and 13 crew members on board the flight which was on its way to Cairo for a stopover and crew change before heading on to Paris, Charles de Gaulle airport.

Wirraway

Indeed...semantics were unnecessary.

Sincerest condolences to all the families and loved ones.

Time to convene the Prune Air Acident Investigation Board. Rudder, or bomb?

Unwiseowl,

I can think of several possible reasons for this drama. Let us for now focus on the human tragedy and concequences for all involved.
Hopefully, the Egyptian CAA will invite the French DGAC to support them in the accident investigation.
Anyway, this is another blow to the Egyptian Civil Aviation scene.
My sincere sympathies.

I notice that some reports are saying there were 13 crew on board, would it be that many on a 733 ?

Hmmm.

First page of their site already has a gross inconsistence about man. date, see behind S/N's of both aircraft and text.

7 positioning crew to CAI were also onboard, hence the 13 crew members.
It seems that the plane has crashed in 1000m deep water, I guess it will be quite a task of retrieving the CVR/FDR

BBC now reporting:

"The plane had a problem at take-off and then tried to turn around and it was at that moment that it apparently crashed off the coast," junior French transport minister Dominique Bussereau told reporters at Charles de Gaulle airport.
----

Does anyone know why the flight was planned to land in Cairo before onward sector to Paris? Seems too short for a tech stop and there were no seats left to be filled.

Take off engine failure over the sea at night. Not nice if true.

WWW

JET CRASH 'NOT TERRORISM'
 

"In a statement, the county's aviation ministry said "technical failures" were the reason for the tragedy."

How can they be so sure in such a short time about the causes of this accident?
I understand that the Egyptian Government will try all possible to reassure the tourism indutry as Sharm El Sheik is a very popular destination especially from Europe, but it seems extremely early to rule out terrorism unless they know something we do not know yet.

I am only a bit sceptic at this stage and terrorism should not be ruled out for the time being.

batouti?
 

maybe it was Capt. Battoutti (co-joe on the ill fated egyptair 767) ?? they blamed him once, hell these days they'll blame it on him as well.

My condolences to all the victims and the loved ones who got the
bad news at CDG.
I left Egypt in Nov 1997, after the big shooting in Luxor, with a
bad taste I hear the news. It is the mentality of the local officials
there to deny first until evidence is there and proves the truth.
I cannot recall a failure in the B737 what causes such a big
problem that the crew cannot handle. A failure of both engines
short after takeoff, loosing the stabilizer, part of the wing falls
appart, those are excluded. But dont forget the B737 is a very
reliable aircraft..... so wait and see what the FDR and the CVR
having as a secret to tell us. The French authorities offered a lot
of assistance to discover the real cause. The Grand Nation does
not hide if theire citizens where victims of a terrorist attack, if it
was one. Fact is 135 passenger and 13 crew got killed, let us
know why!.

NG

Time is GMT + 8 hours
Posted: 03 January 2004 2050 hrs

Egypt rules out explosion as cause of plane crash, blames technical failure

CAIRO : The Egyptian civil aviation ministry said a "technical failure" appears to have caused a plane with 148 people aboard to crash into the Red Sea on Saturday, ruling out an explosion.

"There was no explosion aboard the plane before it crashed into the sea," ministry engineer Faisal al-Shennawi told AFP.

"The first results of the investigation indicate the crash was caused by a technical failure," he said, adding that the ministry would soon publish a statement about the incident.

The plane was carrying 135 French tourists and 13 Egyptian crew members when it crashed shortly after take-off from the Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh, according to the airline.

Civil Aviation Minister Ahmed Shafik was headed to the crash site with senior aides and technical experts to continue the investigation, another ministry official said.

"The control towers of Cairo and Sharm el-Sheikh airports received no distress call from the pilot before the crash," a Cairo airport official said.

Debris was found around seven kilometres south of the airport at Sharm el-Sheikh, he added.

Flash Airlines, the company that operated the plane, said it will arrange for a special flight to Sharm el-Sheikh carrying relatives of the Egyptians who died as well as aviation and technical officials.

The Boeing 737-300 jet was one of two operated by Egyptian charter carrier Flash Airlines, both manufactured in 1993, according to the company's website.

The airline was [founded] six years ago by Egyptian and Italian businessmen, a company official said. - AFP

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori.../64638/1/.html

My condolences to people affected by this. 2004 is getting off to a bad start.

Taking account of what information has been released already, what sort of mechanical faliure could happen to cause an aircraft to turn around and head back to the departure airport for an emergency landing, and then crashing short?

The only thing that springs to mind is an engine explosion, leading to severed lines/control surface/wing damage, or fire, leading to the same thing. It would have to be one hell of a fire to only last two minutes airborne. I don't think this is a repeat of the rudder incident, as not only was that fixed, but from my understanding it leads to a pretty much instantaneous loss of control, which I don't think is what happened here.

This of course, is just my opinion.

Are there any eyewitness reports? From my understanding the area around the crash site is a busy tourist resort.


Whatever the cause, lets hope that the French officials are invited to participate in the investigation, I think it would only be fair considering the loss of French families.

"There was no explosion aboard the plane before it crashed into the sea," ministry engineer Faisal al-Shennawi told AFP.

There weren't any on 9/11 either.

Egyptian Aircraft Down
 

It's no wonder the BBC come in for so much flak: To quote the pretty young thing reading this morning's BBC TV news: "An Egyptian airliner carrying 135 French holidaymakers and 13 crew is reported to have crashed in the sea.... if any of you are concerned about Prime MInister Tony Blair who is on holiday in the area....... a statement from Number 10 etc etc "

Let's see now, would he have been the pilot-handling, the purser or the gent in 22A wearing a necklace of onions? Oh, for God's sake! bm

Well, he might have been out swimming and had it land on top of him...?

Was it daylight or darkness? Over the sea in the dark best bet would be spacial disorientation leading to hitting the water (lots of airliners lost that way).

Engine explosion etc would probably generate a mayday call, but not for certain. More likely with headsets than handmikes (depending on airline procedure and regulation) to get a distress call off.

Rudder hard over is unlikely to bring the aircraft down on takeoff because the aircraft will be flying faster than crossover speed, so the ailerons can overpower it.

Pitot static problems might do it as well...

Cheers
Wino

On FR2 French tv evening news:

A local hotellier Richard Bonneville, whose hotel is situated about 10-12km from the crash area, related that between 4.45 and 5am," they heard a very loud explosion which shook all the windows". It was only later at about 7am that they heard that there had been an air crash.

Sincere condoleances to the famillies to all those on board.

In terms of French nationals killed this is the worst air disater for France since the 1960s.
As to the " speculators " here , please wait a bit, you look like journalists expecting sensational news. For what we know so far , if indeed it is correct, it could be many things , even something very simple, like multiple bird stike on both engines for instance....
The CVR/FDR are reported to be laying 3000 ft below SL and a french company specialized in deep sea ops will be sent to the site to recover them. So could we wait a bit before jumping to bombs or rudders conclusions ?