Security at LHR... A true story?
 

An eminent shooting man recently had the misfortune to pass through Heathrow on his way to enjoy some stalking in Austria.
Despite the record improvement in exam grades of recent years, some airport security staff still have difficulties with reading and writing. By the time the paperwork for transporting a firearm had been completed, the flight had missed its slot.
As the aircraft waited on the tarmac, security staff appeared again and hauled off our shooter to account for “loose ammunition” in his suitcase.
“There isn’t any,” he protested.
“Oh yes there is”, said the security man producing a present which our shooter was taking for his host – a pair of cufflinks shaped like tiny shotgun cartridges.
“Replica bullets,” said the security man. “They could be dangerous!”

Our distinguished shooter’s troubles are not over!

On his return from Austria he encountered a wiser and more experienced Heathrow security man, with a new recruit in tow. To whom, as the firearm was checked, he explained the technicalities.
Lifting the .303 Parker Hale with strap and telescope from its case, he sagely observed to his pupil:
“Yes, that’s a fairly standard shotgun”

Had to endure a similar scenario at UK airport this summer. Having bought an 'Action Man' comic, at the landside newspaper shop, complete with PLASTIC handcuffs on the front, we were stopped as we passed through security. Duty security man had to check with his supervisor as to whether or not the cuffs were allowable. Whilst we waited for the super to arrive I explained to the man that if he confiscated them, I would just go to the airside shop and buy another comic for a new pair, but he couldn't understand. Eventually the super let them through anyway, having first of all played and tinkered with them in every way possible.

A couple of months ago, my daughter (4 years old) and not travelling alone, was stopped going through security at LHR T4 and made to remove the safety pin which was holding her favorite teddy in her backpack. The safety pin was literally less than one cm long and about as dangerous as a manky turnip, and certainly less dangerous than the size 10's of her pretty annoyed father ! We didnt argue though, we just got another pin from a shop airside and Amber the bear enjoyed a safe journey. Was this a normal thing to insist on removing i.e. the authorities believe that a 1cm safety pin could be used for a terrorist outrage, or was the security person concerned just having a bad day ?

Maybe airside shops need their stock checked !

Shhhh!!!
Don't tell them that most of the wings we wear have two sharp pins to go through the fabric on the shirt.

Our uniforms are a deadly weapon ....

'kn gumbies. :(

Cant agree more regarding so called security at airports - morons. It seems that now the word is out not to carry small penknives, nailclippers etc, and passengers are complying so that they don’t get nicked from them, that security guards are coming up with even more weird ‘dangerous’ items (and I use that word with incredulity). I have recently been relieved of a micrometer whilst passing through Marseilles security…. Made of metal, yes, dangerous –how exactly? What am I going to do, threaten to measure someone to death!!!! The fact that I also had a couple of bottles of Jack Daniels duty Free in a plastic bag didn’t worry them…..:mad: :mad:

The latest one was in the good ‘ole US of A last month….. 2.5mm, 4mm & 5mm Allen keys approximately 5cm long taken…….tell me someone how I can injure/maim/kill someone with something so insignificant.…..:mad: :mad:

Regards, SD..

PS And if you are wondering why I carry the above (and a few other small items) in my briefcase with me around the world; Im an Engineer & trying to find certain metric tools in certain parts of the world is impossible, so I carry them.

Upon passing through a UK regional airport recently, minus my Swiss Army knife and Leatherman that used to be in my nav bag, I was amazed to see guy in a flying suit being allowed through with one of those knives on his leg. He had lots of bages on so I could ascertain he was not a military pilot, but a Private Pilot who was wearing a flying suit. He was not even questioned about the knife.......

I queried this with the guard on duty and was informed that it was allowed as "It is part of his equipment".

Rubbish.

I would suggest my Swiss Army knife and Leatherman Tool are part of my kit, possibly to a greater extent than this guy's dagger.

What is going on?

In another incident, we had operated a flight from a Greek destination into LGW and then had to position on BA back to MAN. We therefore had to go landside to get our tickets. Upon going back airside, all the Flight Attentants had their corkscrews confiscated after a big furore. These girls had been up all night and I felt slightly sorry for the guard who'd wound them up and incurred the wrath of seven Scousers and Mancunians!

They still had to hand them over and buy new ones at their own expense.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You bad people you !!

Of course, as all Brits know, any Blue Peter presenter could turn a plastic washing up bottle, a bit of Blue Tac and a polo mint into a fully working F15. Can you imagine, security let them into T4 airside, they go into a loo and come out with a fighter !!

Phnuff

I am amazed to hear that shops airside are selling safety pins.

Last year my partner and I went to Paris for the day. The zip in her jeans broke and we thought "aha safety pin". We tried all the shops and was told that they were on the banned list of items for sale. Eventually got one from a BA check in agent.

own goal ?
 

Security is a very important issue and one that we should all take a day to day interest in as the security staff at an airport should be all of us who work in aviation , however these half witts and more importantly there bosses who invent the more stupid of these rules are bringing the whole security issue into disrepute.

It is a big worry to me that very stupidity of some of the rules that pass for security are making us regard this issue with distane and therefore let down guard that we all should have.

It is quite clear to me that the only thing that the UK security industry is doing is making work for its self and the only thng that it protects is the jobs of the managment who seem to let the tabloid press set the agenda.

It is high time that the managment of security was taken away from the publicity driven MP,s and civil servants and given back to the aviation industry and the police then and only then will common sence retun.

The other thing I would like to see return is items from my cabin crews first aid kit that the unthinking idiots at BHX security have removed , an action that has not made flying safer ...quite the opposite !

And lets not forget that whilst safety pins and plastic handcuffs are causing ulcers amongst the securtiy staff duty free in glass bottles is still being sold airside and airlines are still serving drinks in glasses. Both items could be turned into potentially lethal hand weapons in a matter of seconds.

Pants.

Thats what I think of security. The a/c hi-jacked on 9/11 were done so with a few small knifes (think thats right). So, proving that a small weapon being brandished by a scary enough person can do just as much damage as an enormous bomb ultimately.

So lets get rid of the small weapons.

Thats obviously the solution.

And the really scary people just buy a ticket, jump on a flight, and this time do the same amount of damage with a broken china plate or a bottle of JD or a name badge etc...

Surely we can weed out the real nutters with some sort of brain scan at the check-in desk for the terrorists amoung the passengers, and for the security personnel when they clock on.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr...... :\

I promise this isn't a wind up, but in the US at the end of August, I saw the TSA confiscate an oversized paperclip (about 2" long) from a pax in front of me - 'because it could be straightened out and used as a weapon."

A&C makes a very sound point.

Evanplus - safety pins are available airside - promise. (especially faced with a blond 4 year old girl clutching a teddy bear)

In a few hours I would be going through security in a brand new Southeastern European Airport. Just the idea of using this airport give me a headache let alone having to deal with people that believe they are emperors and Gods on earth.

I feel that they over-enjoy the sens of authority and control their job provide and they consider it an extra benefit. For a short period of time I thought about the idea of them having a target number of items to be confiscated. So they just search and search and confiscate everything they can -inventing few regulations they like to justify any actions.

I have no problems with people they are think are God provided they cause no problems to me. Unfortunately they are paid more than decent salaries from the airport taxes we pay and replacing a confiscated item costs me money.

And we only have to remember the guy who carry on board a shoe bomb despite all security checks...

I would stop here because the next thought would land me in very hot water...


Rwy in Sight

I've had my pen type microscope (that I use in my job) liberated by security staff and I'm scared to carry nail clippers anymore incase I get arrested.....
I can eat on board with a plastic knife - yet I could stab you in the eye with the metal fork.....
I can't take a safety pin but I can beat you over the head with the duty free bottles.....

Time for a little sense?

Thrush,

You'll be happy to know that a mate was threatened by arrest with Kiwi Customs! He arrived from Norfolk Island in his RV-6 wearing his flying suit.

It's a mil suit he's had for years and has his 20++ year old survival knife in the pocket. His 'crime' was importing an un-declared dangerous weapon into Kiwi-land. Bit hard to declare as they nabbed him as he stepped from the plane before he'd even shown tham any paperwork??

Don't we all feel safer? :confused:

G'day ;)

Soon some person will get on a flight, cause a drama using Judo / Karate or some other kind of martial arts and then they will ban people on flights!!

Had my brand new rotary can opener confiscated at Hong Kong about 18 months ago!!!!!
:uhoh:

That was yours?

All the confiscated stuff can be picked up at good prices at Lam Fat Hoi's in Mong Kok.:cool:

I think the clever security personel should confiscate the pilots wot drive the plane cos who knows wot they could do if they managed to get to the controls......
And as for those lethal emeryboard nailfiles that the cabincrew carry.......pphhwwwooooooaaaaar.....the mind boggles.
:ok:

Went through Brum a while ago and had a pair of nail scissors taken off me. She said I could put them in the hold if I wanted, The fact that we have a small axe in the flight deck as standard equipment didnt seem to sway the girl, my clippers were grounded.......

Hey you, it has already happened, in Algeria earlier this year (think that is right). Three guys burst into the flight deck of a 737 and began beating up the pilots. The only thing to save the situation was that they did not close the door behind them so the cabin crew managed to pull them out. Imagine if they were actual terrorists and planned an attack, doing it right. What defences do we have against that? Obviously not the airport security, which is so far beyond stupid they need another word to describe it. Makes you wonder why seemingly intelligent people set up and run such an insane system. Don't they see it does not work and never will? The only people who can make a difference is the crew. The first line of defence is the cabin crew, who must know that they are the only ones who can stop a hijack or attack by a crazy. Of course the authorities have made it difficult, since the crew cannot have any weapons while the attacker is free to take on what he wants (I saw a cooking show and a knife that does not show on xray is used by top chefs that is way sharper than a metal one...shudder). Have any of you cabin crew been given training in defending the cabin? Didn't think so. Hint, a can of beans in a sock can put the bad guy down.

Even the TSA has to admit that almost as many guns are getting through as did when Argenbrite was running the show, so all the hype and expense is a total waste of effort. It reminds me of the "war" on drugs (or terror), which can also never be won, but gives government the opportunity to build up their power and influence, using my tax dollars. The second line of defence is the cockpit crew who must never under any circumstances, let any criminal onto the flight deck. Anything happens, throw the bolt and cut off comms with the cabin, land at nearest airport. Let the police handle it.

The real problem was that after Sep 11 the authorities had a chance to do it right and blew it. They decided to treat all of us as if WE were the problem, instead of the ones who needed to be protected. The real criminals are laughing on their way through "security" while the children, old ladies and crew are given the treatment.

Bah humbug says I.

flashlight foolishness
 

Oh yes my flying brethren the mighty flashlight almost gets re-routed to monkok!!......stopped at jfk whilst positioning and told my mighty big magnum flashlight was "too big" After a ridiculous discussion with security was told I could put the offending article in a locked cabinet monitored by the lead F/A........I can assure all that she was most happy to take the mighty "torch" and thus our flight could leave safe in the knowledge that should any pilot ever need a really good solid flashlight ie god forbid a ditching/double gen fail etc etc...that thanks to the brilliance and inteligence of our federally (now understaffed) tsa light shall be shed only in small doses.........I wonder what would happen if someone was to bring "replacement" axes thru security......although I was impressed by one tsa guy at the jetblue security who rambled on and on as folks filled thru the screening about no baseball or CRICKET bats allowed up top........there's a guy with smarts.....probably one of the ones who'll get dumped in the cuts........arm the bloody pilots!!

I agree about the martial arts issue. Only a matter of time.

What I find most useful about plastic forks is how sharp they are! On a recent VS trip, I retained the fork and, upon arrival at my sister's house, checked it against all the regular dining forks in her house. The plastic was MUCH sharper. :p Since the plastic is weaker than metal, it naturally has to be sharper to make up the difference.

The other vital weapon that I take with me every time (apart from the duty free bottle of cognac) is a laptop computer. My current model is actually very light at only 1.1kg but some of the big Dell's weigh in at nearly 3kg. Imagine holding the laptop (with the screen closed) and bashing someone across the head with it?

Once TSA and British Airports Ar$eholes plc get this peice of information, I am sure that all biz pax will have their laptops placed in a secure cargo container until arrival. :E

Some months ago I started a similar post on the goings-on at STN. A huge response was the result. I am "pleased" to see that other airports suffer the same indignities c.q. stupidities.

But how can we stop it?:{

Check: Wots going on with officialdom at STN in the airports forum.

Why that got moved but this posting remains in the Rumours forum I don't know.

Great stuff guys, some classic examples of no brainers out there. However, I do try to see both sides of any situation and feel a certain sympathy for some of the Security personnel. They're not all jobsworths but do have to apply the regulations laid down by the good old DfT - hence the scissors, clippers, knives and forks fiasco. I can imagine the outcry from certain media sections if the Security personnel did miss these items and they were taken through by those nice, helpful journalists who like to test security from time to time, you know "Airport Security fail to detect banned weapons !" - I use the term weapons loosley !

Instead of whinging on and on about the airport security and the nail files, etc issues why not have a pop at the guys who are really making the rules - the Department for Transport. They're the ones issuing all the directives- and they don't give a stuff about any of the practicalities and costs.

........but I do think someone needs to have word with the guy who stopped the plastic handcuffs !!

Having just returned from America & having gone through security umpteen times (you don't have to go through security at LHR to find it a nightmare, you just have to go there) :eek: I found security in America and LHR fairly okay. Any problems I've had in America I've relayed to TSA & my first reply has been very courteous, infact it is good that the TSA are interested in receiving pax feedback and if people have problems they should use this channel to air their views.

I was aware that security's habit of insisting people take off their shoes was not supposed to be permitted anymore. Therefore I found it hard to understand why twice I still had to go through security barefoot (well once in flightsocks), I did not feel in a position to query security at the time, I just wanted to get on the bl**dy plane. I still have to read the TSA's reply to my second query but I'm sure they'll be as courteous as ever & they have reassurred me that through pax feedback they are made aware of errant screeners & teams and will act upon repeat complaints accordingly, as they will use complaints to improve their service. Remember no matter how power struck some security get the main reason there there is for your security & that of your fellow pax. Treating them as friends rather than foe & using common sense when packing will go along way to ensure you have a smooth ride through security. Incidentally on the TSA website, I'll post the URL later, you can get ideas on how to pack that will make everyone's life easier.

As promised, some of the tips aren't as common sensy as one might think.

www.TSATravelTips.us

Boofhead writes:"The real problem was that after Sep 11 the authorities had a chance to do it right and blew it. They decided to treat all of us as if WE were the problem, instead of the ones who needed to be protected. The real criminals are laughing on their way through "security" while the children, old ladies and crew are given the treatment."


Bravo......But doing things correct is not Politically correct..

Woofrey is right, it's easy to take out your frustration out on the security personnel, who are allowed very little flexibility in exercising their own judgement in any individual situation by;

a) DFT rules and regulations, and
b) Their own senior line management, who are very good at being invisible.
They in turn are sitting on a very fine line between being damned if they do and being damned if they don't.

It's a crap job, poorly paid, and should they screw up once in any respect, they're shown the door.

The DFT should be more accountable to the travelling public and the airlines/staff, perhaps if they were they'd get a lot more cooperation and understanding in undertaking the very important job they do.

Incidently B Sousa, what does a "real criminal" look like?
I'm sure that the next time you fly, the security staff would be eternally grateful for your wisdom.

The big auction?
 

I've had a few things confiscated, but my wife recently had a pretty expensive hair pin -- the kind on a spring -- taken away from her as a potentially dangerous weapon.

I've always wondered what happens to these scissors, nail files, etc. Do they eventually go on some sort of public auction, or are they distributed on a points basis among the security staff. There surely must be some items of more than minimal value,

Also, I have a gold watch with a thick gold band. I've never taken it off and the buzzer has never gone off. Is there anything about gold that it doesn't register?

These criminal record checks are on their to Ba crew and management insists you must return the completed form ABSOLUTELY IMMEDIATELY to some fart in jockland,yet all foreigners from totally unknown and dubious backgrounds are exempt! If the information cannot be provided thens that is it for you my friend is what l would say. What a bloody joke.

I spent the best part of one summer at LHR checking in tennis racquets. The airline I worked for had no problem with pax taking them on board, but T3 security didn't always seem to like them. The other classic (as I moaned about on another thread) was the security chap who wanted to confiscate staplers from customer service staff as we went to board the aircraft. In terms of banned catapults (as my pax used to read through the list provided by the DTLR I got used to sighing "it's a slingshot" at them), I'd be interested to know if anyone has seen a Bart Simpson type trying to smuggle one on board.

Not so long ago had a security agent at LAX asking me why my chest was beeping. Seemed he hadn't heard of underwiring in bras. He called a supervisor to check that I wasn't winding him up. I proceeded unmolested, but wondering whether half of this is now becoming a wind up with these personnel reading proon and having a joke at our expense.

I was once due to attend an 'anti hi-jacking seminar'. To show how utterly pointless all this security crap by bottom-fondling failed wheelclampers actually is, I made 2 weapons from items which would easily pass through security....(which I've now desroyed).

Unfortunately the day job at the time precluded my attendance at the seminar; I had to fly instead. But the message would have been clear; assume that a hi-jacker will always pose a threat, stop the huggy fluffy 'talk them out of it' approach, just kill the bastards and learn how to defend the aeroplane.

Stop pi$$ing off 99.9% of the passengers with this blatant nonsense; learn how to cope should it ever happen.

How about the remark a friend of mine's father made to airport security soon after 9/11.

When security commented on the pin in his wife's brooch, he cheekily retorted

"It's not much use without the grenade".

Some people get away with anything, if it had been me I would have been frogmarched off. All he got was a slight verbal reprimand

You should check out Manchester Airport.

You are not allowed to carry a knife around the work place ( even if you do need it to lash down freight in the back of an aircraft hold ). Lets see, your not allowed to carry a knife and fork into the work place , for fear of stabbing that nice piece of roast potato on the plate.

BUT.

you are allowed to walk around with a transferring shotgun because nobody wants to take charge of it. Customs not interested Police and security cannot be bothered to sort it. because its just passing through.

Wake up Ringway get your act togther Now.

At Vancouver recently, had an expensive Mobile phone confiscated, because the battery was dead (and thus I couldn't prove it worked).

The Charger was in my Main luggage (i.e. far away from me), and the I must have forgotten to charge it!

They said I could collect it on my return, but for the life of me, what the hell did they think it was? It was only a small thing.
If I were a terrorist and it were a Bomb, wouldn't I least have the bloody battery working?!


It really really annoyed me but what can you say? Any protest and you are potentially frogmarched away (and perhaps ultimately banned from the country)

CRAZY

Recently I had my nail clippers confiscated in MAN!!

"Take me to Paris or I'll give you a manicure." The security woman could offer no reason for how they were dangerous just that that was the rule.

Hadn't thought about the name badge thing before, will have to surrender mine at work tommorow.

One warning though if everyone keeps harping on about how dangerous duty free bottles are maybe they'll be banned too. Or maybe they make too much money for BAA, who run security!

Lets not forget
 

Don´t forget that USA is now punishing the civilized world for a inner security breach on 11/9 2001 (or 9/11 for those that read backwards).
Because the US security guards let Atta and all these bastards slip through, they have since invented all sorts of daft regulations that have nothing to do with security. Who in his right mind really thinks the copilot is going to use his nailclippers to slowly remove the captains head, huh!.
A mate of mine recently went through JFK. TSA intellectuals threatened to confiscate his pen! Too heavy for a sharp object (Mont Blanc, Meisterstuck) they said, but decided to give the poor sod a break after consulting with a supervisor
TSA now has a bunch of MacDonald rejects on a high horse, no personal profiling on a large number of them, and after a headstorming (for brainstorming there has to be a brain) we are now not allowed to lock our checked in suitcases. I recently lost 2 Hugo Boss shirts, 4 DVD movies and a lovely Swiss Army knife in a leather holster from a suitcase that was in belly, in USA.

We need security, that´s no doubt, but many of these "let´s do something" rules simply do not work. unfortunately common sense is not so common there.:mad:

Latest from USA: There are now ideas of requiring a DNA sample on every foreign passport (sperm sample etc.).:sad:

Thank goodnes all those nasty weapons are being taken off highly suspect aircrew. It's a good job we don't have access to anything hazardous like a fireaxe!

I have read through the posts on this thread, and the thing that jumps out and grabs your attention is, how dare someone earning less than the gold braided self appointed gods pay in tax, question the fore mentioned gods!!!
People these security guards are necessary and are just doing there often unpleasant jobs, ask them what they think of pompous pilots?
I am not a security guard but my job involves having to pass through security checks several times a day, and the guards I meet respond better to be spoken too in a civil manner. Not in a how dare you question me, because I am above all this manner.