BALPA Rep joins BA management
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Never fancied the RAF as the pay was cr*p, the hours too long and the hosties downright ugly.
Also you forgot that they employ people like Flashhart.
NN LHR
RH has NOT gone into Flight Ops Management but to GROUND Ops management, in particular, the Operational Performance Improvement Programme.
If in later years he were to become the Director of Flight Operations, I for one would be more than happy to see him in that position as a member of Balpa unlike the present incumbant who is not, and never has been, a member of the BA Balpa pilot community - says reams doesn't it?
The integrity of RH is not in any question by those who know him well.
Rob, you did a great job for us on the CC - now do a great job for us in getting our airline back on track.
If in later years he were to become the Director of Flight Operations, I for one would be more than happy to see him in that position as a member of Balpa unlike the present incumbant who is not, and never has been, a member of the BA Balpa pilot community - says reams doesn't it?
The integrity of RH is not in any question by those who know him well.
Rob, you did a great job for us on the CC - now do a great job for us in getting our airline back on track.
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The new GSS agreement allowing expansion beyond 2aircraft and breaking BA Pilots new SCOPE agreement was signed on the same day (according to RH himself), that BA first approached him about the management job. According to that timing, the whole process from job becoming vacant, offer and accepted was 3days. It takes longer to hire a cleaner in BA.
Does anyone here not think he has been offered other jobs previously that we aren't aware of ? When did those offers occur ?
I am not saying RH has been bought off, etc but I believe he is being economical with the truth. The only problem in all this, is that it can be difficult to maintain a staunch BALPA stance during negotiations when you are being frequently courted by the other side and know you might not be even flying a week later and at some future date point definitely want to join management. With the option to stay on and move up the Main Seniority list in case things don't work out of course.
I think BALPA Rules should have a minimum 1-yr cooling off period between being a Rep in one of our major positions and taking a BA management job to avoid this sort of thing.
1. We don't want stone steppers in BALPA but people who have to live and work in the T&C's they negotiate for others.
2. Do we want BALPA's most current strategies now open to BA management ?
BA BALPA has a long history of such movements and of being accused of being "too Close" to management. This latest episode does little to help placate those accusations.
Does anyone here not think he has been offered other jobs previously that we aren't aware of ? When did those offers occur ?
I am not saying RH has been bought off, etc but I believe he is being economical with the truth. The only problem in all this, is that it can be difficult to maintain a staunch BALPA stance during negotiations when you are being frequently courted by the other side and know you might not be even flying a week later and at some future date point definitely want to join management. With the option to stay on and move up the Main Seniority list in case things don't work out of course.
I think BALPA Rules should have a minimum 1-yr cooling off period between being a Rep in one of our major positions and taking a BA management job to avoid this sort of thing.
1. We don't want stone steppers in BALPA but people who have to live and work in the T&C's they negotiate for others.
2. Do we want BALPA's most current strategies now open to BA management ?
BA BALPA has a long history of such movements and of being accused of being "too Close" to management. This latest episode does little to help placate those accusations.
Last edited by airrage; 20th Aug 2003 at 17:13.
Snouts in the trough mate.Just come back from a stateside trip that had been disrupted with the power problem. The cabin crew spent the night at the airport and were claiming for an extended duty day of 26hours at somr horrendous cost to the company.The pilots didnt get a brass razoo.Thanks RH
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What's a brass razoo?
I'm with you on one thing. The loss of DOP's and 'lateness credit' was under-estimated by the BACC. I believe the figure of £800k per annum was quoted by BA to RH's pay team and they were foolish to believe them.
<<<<<<<Scribbles on back of fag packet
800k / 3400 pilots = £235 per pilot per year
I used to on average, as a SH pilot, earn around £50 per month from this quirky peripheral allowance. If I am supposed to be the average Nigel I make 3400 x 50 x 12 = £2 million. And THAT doesn't include the DOC's that helped the Long Haul net pay packets.
There's no juice to RH's defection. He was a climber. He got what he climbed for and for an unfortunate few, they suffered the consequences of his negotiations. On the whole, his agreements were sound and lack any fuel to the fire of conspiracy. Good Luck to him and let's get LHR sorted in time for T5.
I'm with you on one thing. The loss of DOP's and 'lateness credit' was under-estimated by the BACC. I believe the figure of £800k per annum was quoted by BA to RH's pay team and they were foolish to believe them.
<<<<<<<Scribbles on back of fag packet
800k / 3400 pilots = £235 per pilot per year
I used to on average, as a SH pilot, earn around £50 per month from this quirky peripheral allowance. If I am supposed to be the average Nigel I make 3400 x 50 x 12 = £2 million. And THAT doesn't include the DOC's that helped the Long Haul net pay packets.
There's no juice to RH's defection. He was a climber. He got what he climbed for and for an unfortunate few, they suffered the consequences of his negotiations. On the whole, his agreements were sound and lack any fuel to the fire of conspiracy. Good Luck to him and let's get LHR sorted in time for T5.
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Well it's been a long long time since I've been moved to post in PPRUNE but as a guy who had a series of e-mail disagreements with RH prior and post pay deal and CFE integration I find myself broadly defending him. I don't think it's the move itself that's the problem it's the perception that the timing gives it. It doesn't seem decent somehow. I think, perhaps, that some kind of clause should be in place that bars BALPA guys from taking up management posts within a, say, 12 month period.
RH is an ambitious man, and I'm bound to say it's consistent behaviour for someone to take on the mantle of the chair of the BACC and then want to further their career (guess the guy likes pain?).
My only concern, as has been voiced here is how long it will take BA to move him from his Ground Ops post to Industrial Relations for the next pay battle.
Still, given the paucity of my relations with the man himself, I can look at rejoining BALPA. Maybe.
But to concur with the first post. It simply doesn't look good whether or not there's any hidden agenda to the move.
Regards
RH is an ambitious man, and I'm bound to say it's consistent behaviour for someone to take on the mantle of the chair of the BACC and then want to further their career (guess the guy likes pain?).
My only concern, as has been voiced here is how long it will take BA to move him from his Ground Ops post to Industrial Relations for the next pay battle.
Still, given the paucity of my relations with the man himself, I can look at rejoining BALPA. Maybe.
But to concur with the first post. It simply doesn't look good whether or not there's any hidden agenda to the move.
Regards
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Given that RH would have accepted the job at some stage, exactly when would have been a good time for him to leave?
Maybe if he left it until we were stuck into this years pay round? or maybe until after the pay negotiations were completed (God forbid !!). Then we would be talking NAPS etc. etc.
At the end of the day we are always formulating plans or we are entering/in the midst of negotiations. There will never be a good time to lose such an important figure.
Maybe if he left it until we were stuck into this years pay round? or maybe until after the pay negotiations were completed (God forbid !!). Then we would be talking NAPS etc. etc.
At the end of the day we are always formulating plans or we are entering/in the midst of negotiations. There will never be a good time to lose such an important figure.
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The CEO of Aer Lingus is an ex Cadet Pilot and ex Union Executive member.
He was almost fired in 1982 because the company was in financial difficulties and had too many pilots...he was bottom of the list.
Fortunately for him the union fought hard to protect his job and he was 'redeployed' to an office job for 12 months.
When he returned to flying he joined the union executive (people might have thought it was in gratitude for having his skin saved by his colleagues).
No chance. He ingratiated himself with management and was soon elevated into their circle (with the assistance of at least one other ex union poacher turned gamekeeper).
Thanks to his particular knowledge of the workings of the pilots union and its policiy documents (he was allegedly caught photocopying the lot on the eve of his departure) he made a name for himself in management by shafting the pilot group at every given opportunity (sound familiar yet?).
His rise was inexorable thanks to his 'insider knowledge' and his willing and treasonable betrayal of his own colleagues.
Having put himself on a senior fleet (out of seniority) he then gave up flying altogether (can't be taken seriously as a manager if you're one of those bloody pilots). He was later quoted in a major Irish newspaper interview as saying 'I always considered flying as boring, I prefer management'.
When Aer Lingus had their brush with bankruptcy after 9-11 he was by then 'in charge'. One of his first actions was to attempt to sack the most junior 85 pilots because 'the company was in financial difficulties and had too many pilots'....thus the circle was finally closed and the betrayal was complete.
I often wonder if the irony ever struck him...that if the self same union which fought to save the jobs of the 85 had not fought for him too...he would have had time to contemplate how 'boring' flying is in some other career.
Probably not.
He was almost fired in 1982 because the company was in financial difficulties and had too many pilots...he was bottom of the list.
Fortunately for him the union fought hard to protect his job and he was 'redeployed' to an office job for 12 months.
When he returned to flying he joined the union executive (people might have thought it was in gratitude for having his skin saved by his colleagues).
No chance. He ingratiated himself with management and was soon elevated into their circle (with the assistance of at least one other ex union poacher turned gamekeeper).
Thanks to his particular knowledge of the workings of the pilots union and its policiy documents (he was allegedly caught photocopying the lot on the eve of his departure) he made a name for himself in management by shafting the pilot group at every given opportunity (sound familiar yet?).
His rise was inexorable thanks to his 'insider knowledge' and his willing and treasonable betrayal of his own colleagues.
Having put himself on a senior fleet (out of seniority) he then gave up flying altogether (can't be taken seriously as a manager if you're one of those bloody pilots). He was later quoted in a major Irish newspaper interview as saying 'I always considered flying as boring, I prefer management'.
When Aer Lingus had their brush with bankruptcy after 9-11 he was by then 'in charge'. One of his first actions was to attempt to sack the most junior 85 pilots because 'the company was in financial difficulties and had too many pilots'....thus the circle was finally closed and the betrayal was complete.
I often wonder if the irony ever struck him...that if the self same union which fought to save the jobs of the 85 had not fought for him too...he would have had time to contemplate how 'boring' flying is in some other career.
Probably not.
Last edited by Idunno; 21st Aug 2003 at 20:18.
