easyJet B737 Damaged by Hail
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<<I'm not familiar but would suggest if the A/C looked like Easy Jet and the Captain didn't land ASAP I wouldn't want to fly with him>>
I cannot recall seeing pictures of the BMI A321 in the same detail as we've seen of the EasyJet. From my recollection, the BMI radome was actually punctured (where as the EJ one a large dent?), and one (?) windscreen pane shattered (as opposed to both). However, I don't think the visible leading damage was as bad. I have heard (3rd, if not 4th hand) they descended (as per Windscreen shattered drill) and were then unaware of any reason to divert - fuel allowed them to get to MAN. It was night though, and damage therefore less visible...
We'll see....
NoD
I cannot recall seeing pictures of the BMI A321 in the same detail as we've seen of the EasyJet. From my recollection, the BMI radome was actually punctured (where as the EJ one a large dent?), and one (?) windscreen pane shattered (as opposed to both). However, I don't think the visible leading damage was as bad. I have heard (3rd, if not 4th hand) they descended (as per Windscreen shattered drill) and were then unaware of any reason to divert - fuel allowed them to get to MAN. It was night though, and damage therefore less visible...
We'll see....
NoD
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Insurance right off? Not so sure as it was an act of god and the insurance does not cover that.
Reading in the local geneva press the other day it claims that EZY will have to pick up the costs of repairs...
Reading in the local geneva press the other day it claims that EZY will have to pick up the costs of repairs...
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I am sure that the 737 would be able to carry on with the flight and land safely at it's destination.However it was the captain's decision to go back to GVA since he was so close,something the BMI captain didn't do! 
And one more thing for the drivers of the 737 that use the WX radar installed.
It is known that this radar antenna may depict very well the dimensions and intensity of a cell BUT...if another cell is present behind the depicted it tends to "underestimate" or even "omit" the presence of a second buildup.
I wouldn't judge on the cpt's actions with such ease !!
And one more thing for the drivers of the 737 that use the WX radar installed.
It is known that this radar antenna may depict very well the dimensions and intensity of a cell BUT...if another cell is present behind the depicted it tends to "underestimate" or even "omit" the presence of a second buildup.
I wouldn't judge on the cpt's actions with such ease !!
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Nigelondraft - I would just like to say, don't you think you're being a bit unfair on the EZY captain? The aircraft flew into problems 10 mins after takeoff! Don't you think he used every possible action to return the aircraft safely to the ground? GVA is the nearest airfield, so thats exactly what he did. I would gladly fly with that captain again as he proved that safety is his number one priority, unlike that of his BMI counterpart!
If he is already in a hail storm, he has got to turn round and most probably fly through it again to get out of it ASAP. So I think your judgement is very selfish.
If he is already in a hail storm, he has got to turn round and most probably fly through it again to get out of it ASAP. So I think your judgement is very selfish.
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jetteson...
<<I would just like to say, don't you think you're being a bit unfair on the EZY captain?>>
I have made no comment on the actions of the EZ Captain? I have suggested we wait until the inquiry... People have said he has done "well" - what did he do well? Others have said he flew into a CB he should not have? How do they know that?
Please post exactly where I have been "unfair" - I have tried (but may have failed) not to "say" anything - after all, who knows what really went on, apart form the crews themselves...
NoD
<<I would just like to say, don't you think you're being a bit unfair on the EZY captain?>>
I have made no comment on the actions of the EZ Captain? I have suggested we wait until the inquiry... People have said he has done "well" - what did he do well? Others have said he flew into a CB he should not have? How do they know that?
Please post exactly where I have been "unfair" - I have tried (but may have failed) not to "say" anything - after all, who knows what really went on, apart form the crews themselves...
NoD
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Forget the rubbish above..........these are the facts : so far !!
The aircraft CRS was signed on the 5th AUG '03.
The aircraft has flown in service continuously since with no problems, myself 'at the wheel' on occaison.
The Captain is back on - line after a brief time stood down whilst the incident was investigated internally by bmi. Note this is standard industry practice !
The Captain has NOT been punished or blamed in any way.
His actions both during & after the incident were naturally questioned, but accepted by bmi.
The nose cone damage looks bad to the layman, but of course it is only fibreglass ! (fuel burn figures are available to the crew).
The data retrieved from 'on-board monitoring' showed that nothing untoward or unusual was indicated to the flight crew. ie the ship flew NORMALLY.
There is NO requirement to divert with 'cracked' screens, the captain elected to descend to the req'd FL230, this reduces the cabin diff. to 5psi.
The fuel remaining was adequate to reach destination, therefore he elected to continue and deliver his pax to the destination they were expecting.
Altogether a job well done in my opinion.
Cargo boy.......get yourself a new dicky bird
Roger Miller.
The aircraft CRS was signed on the 5th AUG '03.
The aircraft has flown in service continuously since with no problems, myself 'at the wheel' on occaison.
The Captain is back on - line after a brief time stood down whilst the incident was investigated internally by bmi. Note this is standard industry practice !
The Captain has NOT been punished or blamed in any way.
His actions both during & after the incident were naturally questioned, but accepted by bmi.
The nose cone damage looks bad to the layman, but of course it is only fibreglass ! (fuel burn figures are available to the crew).
The data retrieved from 'on-board monitoring' showed that nothing untoward or unusual was indicated to the flight crew. ie the ship flew NORMALLY.
There is NO requirement to divert with 'cracked' screens, the captain elected to descend to the req'd FL230, this reduces the cabin diff. to 5psi.
The fuel remaining was adequate to reach destination, therefore he elected to continue and deliver his pax to the destination they were expecting.
Altogether a job well done in my opinion.
Cargo boy.......get yourself a new dicky bird
Roger Miller.
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how to judge it right??
It is allways easy to find a solution and know everything better
when you are not involved in the case. I want everybody see how
he will react if he is in a similar condition, you can never be in the
same as such decissions are made in the moment the crew has
to find a solution. The "Captain" who returned is as well safe as
the "Captain" who continued to destination.
I had to decide last year about a "Captain" who continued to
destination after he had penetrated heavy hail with GPWS
warning "Terrain" PULL UP "Terrain". This occured in 7000 ft AGL
and also the fire warning went shortly on. The crew flew a escape
manoever for Terrain clearence and then after they came out of
all the warnings the false fire warning went off. The A/P could
be engaged again, the screen came back. The mission was then
completed with destination. The picture was similar to this of
the Bobby from EZY, demage from nose to tail for more then
10 mio US $ on the A330. Some called him a hero, some called
him a dangerous Pilot. The crew got questioned as well. The
answer why they dont returned was: We would not go thru that
weather again and so we flew to destination at low level. Fuel
was not a question, enough juice was in the wings. So how would
the honored aviator judge that case. Remember nobody else then
the two in the first row are sitting in and they see it firsthand and
they make a decission based on that what they encounter in that
moment and, believe me, the Pacific storms are much heavier as
they over central Europe, some scare the shi... out of you !!!.
NG
when you are not involved in the case. I want everybody see how
he will react if he is in a similar condition, you can never be in the
same as such decissions are made in the moment the crew has
to find a solution. The "Captain" who returned is as well safe as
the "Captain" who continued to destination.
I had to decide last year about a "Captain" who continued to
destination after he had penetrated heavy hail with GPWS
warning "Terrain" PULL UP "Terrain". This occured in 7000 ft AGL
and also the fire warning went shortly on. The crew flew a escape
manoever for Terrain clearence and then after they came out of
all the warnings the false fire warning went off. The A/P could
be engaged again, the screen came back. The mission was then
completed with destination. The picture was similar to this of
the Bobby from EZY, demage from nose to tail for more then
10 mio US $ on the A330. Some called him a hero, some called
him a dangerous Pilot. The crew got questioned as well. The
answer why they dont returned was: We would not go thru that
weather again and so we flew to destination at low level. Fuel
was not a question, enough juice was in the wings. So how would
the honored aviator judge that case. Remember nobody else then
the two in the first row are sitting in and they see it firsthand and
they make a decission based on that what they encounter in that
moment and, believe me, the Pacific storms are much heavier as
they over central Europe, some scare the shi... out of you !!!.
NG
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Hail Damage
A few years ago a similary incident happened to an A320 DXB - MCT. The vision through the windscreens was such that the Capt elected to divert to AUH where an Autoland was completed. A/C wisked off to the hangar forgotten about ever since.
Sorry no pic's avail.
Sorry no pic's avail.
I've only made a few posts so I don't feel the need to order a Personal Title and help support PPRuNe
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Oh well, I won't be trusting anything that Dicky Bird tells me in future. Thanks for the update. At least that rumour can be quashed. 
ex-Tanker
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EZS Boeing through the mill
An easyJet Switzerland 737 has been shown on TV after getting battered by the elements - should be a picture somewhere - showing what vicious power there is in a CB cell - if anyone needed reminding.
Very similar story and similar damage to that of a Spantax DC-9 out of Valencia some years back which did an emergency landing in Barcelona after avoiding the largest echoes and getting into a baby frontal cell. Nothing baby about the hail though - "As big as soup plates" the Captain later said - all the antennas and pitot tubes were gone -one engine stopped - the radome gone and the antenna rumpled - big dents and tears in the slats and the windshields opaque - he landed visually with an open DV window. A team from McDonnell Douglas took a long time to fix it.
That one I saw and tried to get pics (no joy) for crew training. It would be a good thing if someone could get the 737 damage on the web. Very often it's the harmless looking CBs in the building phase which are bad. The EZS damage was soon after takeoff and the ship returned to GVA. Any further info/corrections welcomed.
Very similar story and similar damage to that of a Spantax DC-9 out of Valencia some years back which did an emergency landing in Barcelona after avoiding the largest echoes and getting into a baby frontal cell. Nothing baby about the hail though - "As big as soup plates" the Captain later said - all the antennas and pitot tubes were gone -one engine stopped - the radome gone and the antenna rumpled - big dents and tears in the slats and the windshields opaque - he landed visually with an open DV window. A team from McDonnell Douglas took a long time to fix it.
That one I saw and tried to get pics (no joy) for crew training. It would be a good thing if someone could get the 737 damage on the web. Very often it's the harmless looking CBs in the building phase which are bad. The EZS damage was soon after takeoff and the ship returned to GVA. Any further info/corrections welcomed.
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HB III departed GVA last week for further work to bring it back on line. All leading edges replaced but flew unpressurised due to forward fuselage damage.
Looks like it will be re skinned forward of the 1L/R doors due to severity of the hail impact damage.
Also told that Pilot was from Parc Aviation replacing EZS pilots off on A319 training.
Looks like it will be re skinned forward of the 1L/R doors due to severity of the hail impact damage.
Also told that Pilot was from Parc Aviation replacing EZS pilots off on A319 training.
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As a regular pax, I must admit I do find it a bit unsettling that these incidents can be repeated over time, particularly in these 'hi-tech' times.
Surely some sort of extra weather-avoidance measures must be needed somewhere in the system?? I say this having noticed references to 'hidden' weather cells behind other severe weather in previous posts.
I would hate to see a plane brought down in severe hail, only for the official report to state something along the lines of 'despite many previous warnings of such incidents etc etc'.
I half-expect a tirade of self-righteous abuse on this one, but hopefully level-headed readers will see where I'm coming from...
Surely some sort of extra weather-avoidance measures must be needed somewhere in the system?? I say this having noticed references to 'hidden' weather cells behind other severe weather in previous posts.
I would hate to see a plane brought down in severe hail, only for the official report to state something along the lines of 'despite many previous warnings of such incidents etc etc'.
I half-expect a tirade of self-righteous abuse on this one, but hopefully level-headed readers will see where I'm coming from...
Weather avoidance it seems to me is an art as much as a science. With all the gadgets in the world you can still get caught out by all manner of shears, CAT and hail.
Whilst the industry strives to make flying as safe as reasonably possible - total safety is an illusionary state that will never be obtained.
I think on balance I take more comfort from this particular hail encounter than I take worry. If the airframe can survive that and the crew return everyone safely to terrafirma then we do indeed have a robust level of safety in place.
Cheers,
WWW
Whilst the industry strives to make flying as safe as reasonably possible - total safety is an illusionary state that will never be obtained.
I think on balance I take more comfort from this particular hail encounter than I take worry. If the airframe can survive that and the crew return everyone safely to terrafirma then we do indeed have a robust level of safety in place.
Cheers,
WWW
Nice-but-dim
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If the airframe can survive that and the crew return everyone safely to terrafirma then we do indeed have a robust level of safety in place
Its a good job it does'nt happen too often though. As a 'turbulence fairy', I'm sure I would be put off flying for a year or 10.
Tim
