UAL to file Chapter 11 this week.....
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UAL to file Chapter 11 this week.....
According to many medium sized station managers: UAL will file for chapter 11, cut 25 medium sized stations, and cut countless small stations.. .Is this a way to avoid all the current union problems they are having or is this a wake-up call that the no-frills are winning the airline war. Continental and Northwest are the only two majors with enough excess aircraft right now to make a dent in the passenger surplus if this rumour is true.... <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
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Sure might be true. UAL is losing about $15 million a day. I remember UAL claiming that the government shouldn't offer assistance to Pan Am.
"Don't worry son, the government won't let United go out of business..."
[ 21 January 2002: Message edited by: Airbubba ]</p>
"Don't worry son, the government won't let United go out of business..."
[ 21 January 2002: Message edited by: Airbubba ]</p>
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Business Week mag is apparently reporting that United has hidden several billion dollars in debt off the books. Their accounting firm is Arthur Anderson. <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
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>>Business Week mag is apparently reporting that United has hidden several billion dollars in debt off the books. Their accounting firm is Arthur Anderson.<<
From the "Oy Vay!" department:
"...United Airlines Inc. parent UAL Corp.'s (UAL ) published balance sheet for 2000 shows $5 billion of long-term debt. But only a footnote describes the bulk of its lease payments, which Baggaley estimates have a present value of $12.7 billion, due over 26 years on 233 airplanes..."
<a href="http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/02_04/b3767704.htm" target="_blank">http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/02_04/b3767704.htm</a>
From the "Oy Vay!" department:
"...United Airlines Inc. parent UAL Corp.'s (UAL ) published balance sheet for 2000 shows $5 billion of long-term debt. But only a footnote describes the bulk of its lease payments, which Baggaley estimates have a present value of $12.7 billion, due over 26 years on 233 airplanes..."
<a href="http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/02_04/b3767704.htm" target="_blank">http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/02_04/b3767704.htm</a>
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Sincerely hope United emerge on whatever "other side" they have planned.
As usual, the pilots will probably be publicly villified for bringing United to the brink and Goodwin's (BADwin?) tenure and continual mismanagement will be long forgotten.
Get ready to take it in the shorts (again)!
As usual, the pilots will probably be publicly villified for bringing United to the brink and Goodwin's (BADwin?) tenure and continual mismanagement will be long forgotten.
Get ready to take it in the shorts (again)!
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Co-incidentally overheard two UAL employees today at LHR one in civvies was heard to say " well after the anouncement on Thursday" and with that the other employee shut them up realising people could hear. It would appear that something could be announced, but this is all conjecture on my part and linking it with this thread. ?? <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
BTW What constitutes a medium sized station as far as UAL is concerned??
[ 21 January 2002: Message edited by: fadec_primary_channel ]</p>
BTW What constitutes a medium sized station as far as UAL is concerned??
[ 21 January 2002: Message edited by: fadec_primary_channel ]</p>
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Tim Melland,
Wait, weren't you the same guy that said Alaska. .and Frontier were going to announce a merger last. .Thursday? Where do you get your info? Anyways.. I wouldn't be surprised if United were going to file. .chapter 11---that would give them the right to break a/c leases, and break contract agreements.. .The one thing everyone else has to worry about is. .HOW LONG United stays in Chap 11. They could pull the rest of the industry down with them---lowering fares to bring in any money needed for their short term debts, and the others would have to follow suit. I know Delta is pushing for legislation limiting the amount of time an airline. .can "Hold" in the bankruptcy holding pattern.. .Regardless, I don't think United would ever "die"---it will eventually rebound---but by that time the US Majors will consist of Comair, ACA, Skywest, Southwest, and Airtran.
Thanks. Donkey Duke <img src="cool.gif" border="0"> <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
Wait, weren't you the same guy that said Alaska. .and Frontier were going to announce a merger last. .Thursday? Where do you get your info? Anyways.. I wouldn't be surprised if United were going to file. .chapter 11---that would give them the right to break a/c leases, and break contract agreements.. .The one thing everyone else has to worry about is. .HOW LONG United stays in Chap 11. They could pull the rest of the industry down with them---lowering fares to bring in any money needed for their short term debts, and the others would have to follow suit. I know Delta is pushing for legislation limiting the amount of time an airline. .can "Hold" in the bankruptcy holding pattern.. .Regardless, I don't think United would ever "die"---it will eventually rebound---but by that time the US Majors will consist of Comair, ACA, Skywest, Southwest, and Airtran.
Thanks. Donkey Duke <img src="cool.gif" border="0"> <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
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Hey Tim,
Donkey Duke is right - your credibility is SHOT...
I didn't see any Frontier/Alaska merger headlines - but you were soooooooo sure of yourself. Yeah, this is supposed to be a rumor network, but c'mon, show us the facts, or shoot your LAME sources. Who's next - Air Jamaica and Horizon?
Good luck to all of the United pilots out there. I think it's inevitable that wages will have to be slashed on all fronts - including mechanics and management. Look for more RJs clogging up the airways....
Cheers
Donkey Duke is right - your credibility is SHOT...
I didn't see any Frontier/Alaska merger headlines - but you were soooooooo sure of yourself. Yeah, this is supposed to be a rumor network, but c'mon, show us the facts, or shoot your LAME sources. Who's next - Air Jamaica and Horizon?
Good luck to all of the United pilots out there. I think it's inevitable that wages will have to be slashed on all fronts - including mechanics and management. Look for more RJs clogging up the airways....
Cheers
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Just another attempt to screw the people who made them what they are.....the employees....let's wait and see <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
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I don't see UAL "perishing" or filing Chapter 11 in the near future. They have made some moves that will help them for years to come most important being the Star Alliance and the one with Lufthansa.
On the international front United will hold its own, on the national market as mentioned before one can expect to see more RJs and elimination of unprofitable route.
One possible restructuring is spinning of the international and domestic operations, however this will not be an easy task.
Lets see- only time will tell.
On the international front United will hold its own, on the national market as mentioned before one can expect to see more RJs and elimination of unprofitable route.
One possible restructuring is spinning of the international and domestic operations, however this will not be an easy task.
Lets see- only time will tell.
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>>I don't see UAL "perishing" or filing Chapter 11 in the near future.
From today's Chicago Tribune:
WASHINGTON -- A 30-day cooling off period was declared Sunday by a presidential panel as talks between United Airlines and its mechanics collapsed.
The action came after the Presidential Emergency Board sided with United, noting, "The company persuasively asserts that, unless the economics of the industry improve beyond any reasonable expectation, these efforts are simply not enough, by themselves, to stave off reorganization under the bankruptcy laws at some future time."...
<a href="http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-0201210149jan21.story?coll=chi%2Dbusiness%2Dhed" target="_blank">http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-0201210149jan21.story?coll=chi%2Dbusiness%2Dhed</a>
From today's Chicago Tribune:
WASHINGTON -- A 30-day cooling off period was declared Sunday by a presidential panel as talks between United Airlines and its mechanics collapsed.
The action came after the Presidential Emergency Board sided with United, noting, "The company persuasively asserts that, unless the economics of the industry improve beyond any reasonable expectation, these efforts are simply not enough, by themselves, to stave off reorganization under the bankruptcy laws at some future time."...
<a href="http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-0201210149jan21.story?coll=chi%2Dbusiness%2Dhed" target="_blank">http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-0201210149jan21.story?coll=chi%2Dbusiness%2Dhed</a>
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The true story is self evident: If business will not improve very soon, major surgery, including Chap 11, will be required. Because no company, no matter how big, can continue operations while burning $20+ Million per day. Unlike Gordon Bethune at Continental who slashed operations and employes (12,000) immediately after Sept 11; UAL management vacillated, took too long to cut back too little. And despite UAL's belated management shakeup, the company already has lost its momentum. Pumping $100+ Million into Avolar, the business jet division, has caused management to lose focus of its core business. <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
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I ca understand UAL going under. I have just been on a trip with them and everything went wrong, mostly concerned with late departures, unhelpful staff, staff who didn't turn up to work at all and bad organisation. Will never fly with them again.