Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Cosy Cartel in Aerlingus has to end.

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Cosy Cartel in Aerlingus has to end.

Old 1st Jun 2001, 22:42
  #1 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a
Exclamation Cosy Cartel in Aerlingus has to end.

Calling all Aerlingus Employees and fellow pprune members,

Since March I am sure you all have been hearing about the rumblings in Aerlingus over the allegation made against our CX and are wondering what is going on.
Please read on.
The shady dealings of SIPTU (an Irish union) and how they are opposed to any change for good in Aerlingus is now becoming apparent as the recent developments in Aerlingus comes under the spotlight.Does SIPTU not realise it is our futures that they could destroy by their actions. As they have said to new workers “we will regain the power we once had in the airport”. And it looks that if they can’t achieve this they seem content on bring this airline down with no thought to the consequences to the workers.
Certain people in Aerlingus , SIPTU and the IRISH GOVERNMENT have had a COSY CARTEL for to long .The lack of management skills of certain managers in this whole ordeal has to be questioned?
As well as why the board of Aerlingus does not use the official procedures that exist in Aerlingus for their investigations into the allegations against Foley. Instead they set up a kangaroo court. What are they all afraid of? Is that the truth will come out.
The past behaviour of Aerlingus ,SIPTU and the GOVERNMENT will not be accepted by the employees of Aerlingus any more. Times are changing, to survive and grow as an airline there has to be changes this has to be achieved if we are to have a future. So what are we to do??
For the last two months we have stood by looking at the carry on that is going on in our airline .As it was suggested on pprune that we the employees do something about it, well now is the time for the truth to come out and to voice your views.
We are in the process of setting up a web site for you to post your views and also to organise the troops by posting info on it. So in the mean time let’s start here.
All your views are welcome and I ask the rest of you out there in pprune for your comments and suggestions to.
Thanking you.

Old 2nd Jun 2001, 17:40
  #2 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

Airpoint, if you are an ALT employee you have a lot of guts putting a website like that together...not to mention just raising the issues in public. As you can see from the lack of replies to your thread most people would rather keep their heads down.

Good luck.
Old 2nd Jun 2001, 19:51
  #3 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

As an ex-EI staffer I certainly have a vested interest in the future of the company. The current situation eminating from BC down through the mangerial ranks is nothing new. Once these guys get their teeh into something they will not let go. They are determined now to get rid of Foley one way or the other, and the irony is that they would rather satisfy their own desires than work with a man who just might be saviour for the company.

In its current state it's only a matter of time before Aer Lingus implodes. When that happens who will be left to point the finger at.

That's my rant for today!

A note for Michael Foley:

"Just because you've conquered your paranoia doesn't mean they're not still out to get you!"
Old 2nd Jun 2001, 20:27
  #4 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

Although working for a rival, or about to. I have connections with EI (don't we all). The Foley things smells. HOB needs a clearout and he was the man to do it.
It won't save them, when BA buys EI and it will be BA won't it Mary?, the old gang will find themselves working as operatives in some electronic company.

What is worrying is that there does seem to be a lack of reality in the Unions and HOB. Lest they forget there is already a new national airline in waiting, one with an equally traditional logo on the tail, but with a very different ethos.
Ireland no longer needs Aer Lingus but it would be a pity to see it go.
The next few months will be interesting.
Old 2nd Jun 2001, 20:52
  #5 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

Capt Sensible,
Yes I do work in EI and every day I go to work I hear people saying something has to be done it’s about time we let our voices be heard, the web site is still been worked on will have details soon.
We all see how much this stinks even though some of us are in different unions we all see what’s going on and it a disgrace. If only people knew the support that Foley has from the worker I hope something good comes from all of this.
It will be ironic to see if Aerlingus is sold as a trade sale as all those waster’s in HOB will be gone over night and if that day every come it will take weeks to wipe the smiles off peoples faces
To my fellow workers why are you afraid to post your post use a different name if needs be but we have got to let the truth been know of how much this whole thing stinks.
Yes I do value my job in Aerlingus and this is why I think it time to speak out before we lose our chance.


Old 2nd Jun 2001, 20:59
  #6 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

Aer Lingus faces "quite an uncertain future", Mary O'Rourke. (Daily Telegraph)

Isn't such optimistic talk confidence building?!
Old 3rd Jun 2001, 01:31
  #7 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

1. Aer Lingus is a very good airline to fly with. 2.Most of the staff are loyal and dedicated. 3.Government Minister Mary O'Rourke at best is incompetent. 4. The Board of Directors are political (Fianna Fail) hacks. 5.The Trade Unions are living in another world and another century (the last). 6. The new CEO, Michael Foley , was trying to change all this and was "set up" on ridiculous and trivial "sexual harrassment" charges by a "worker" director.(The truth will out on this shortly).
Old 3rd Jun 2001, 03:58
  #8 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

If they can do this to the CEO, who in ALT is safe? It stinks.
When he's gone the lunatics will be left to run the asylum unhindered.
Old 3rd Jun 2001, 14:51
  #9 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

I hope Foley gets to keep his job: This from the Sunday Independent:

Aer Lingus sex row: Foley's 3m pay-off

Pilots and cabin crew supported chief executive, but were persuaded not to issue statement

AER LINGUS will be obliged to give its Chief Executive Michael Foley a 3m pay-off package or face prolonged and damaging litigation to remove him.

But even if he accepts this pay-off, there is a strong possibility that Mr Foley will insist on trying to clear his name in court by taking separate proceedings against the two women who accused him of sexual harassment.

It has also emerged that Aer Lingus pilots, cabin crew and middle management wanted to issue a statement in support of Mr Foley last week, but were dissuaded by union leaders who said it could have been interpreted as disrespectful to Judge Mella Carroll, who was dealing with the case in the High Court. Members of the Impact union spent several hours speaking in favour of a vote of confidence in Mr Foley.

Any settlement with Mr Foley, who was the former head of Heineken's entire US division, is likely to include his large legal fees as well as commensurate compensation.

"His main concern is to clear his name, and any settlement that does not include that will mean he could never work at that level again," said a source close to Mr Foley, who says his world has fallen apart since the claims by Siptu worker-director Joan Loughnane and personal assistant Ann Lawlor that they were victims of sexual harassment.

Mr Foley's contract calls for one year's notice but the likelihood that such a high-profile sacking would make him ineligible for similar work in future would be taken into account in finalising a departure package.

The settlement will also take into account the fact that Mr Foley was head-hunted from the US and encouraged to come home and take the top job in Aer Lingus. Sources close to Mr Foley said any settlement would also have to deal with his lost earnings over the 10 years left until his normal retirement date.

Yesterday, Mr Foley and his advisers were preparing a submission to the committee which will decide his future with the airline.

The board subcommittee, headed by chairman Paddy Wright, will decide Foley's future next Friday and it appears that they may try to terminate his contract, although that is by no means certain at this stage.

Mr Foley will have a week to make a written or oral submission to the committee which was set up to decide what action, if any, is to be taken against him after another committee upheld sexual harassment claims by two women.

The 300,000-a-year airline boss, who claims he was "framed", will argue that it is impossible for him to find a similar executive job following the decision of the board to uphold claims of sexual harassment by two female employees.

But he is also determined to clear his name and is planning to go back to court to seek a right to appeal both the finding that he harassed two female employees and whatever disciplinary action is taken against him.

He could also take court action against the two women who made allegations against him.

Speaking after Friday's High Court decision which dismissed his bid to block the disciplinary process, the suspended chief executive insisted: "I still contest my innocence strongly. I will make every effort that the truth will come out."

The High Court case heard Mr Foley make dramatic allegations in an affidavit when he was questioned in the airline over the complaints: "I did nothing wrong. Two people decided to frame me and then someone went public and f**ked me. Excuse my language. This is assassination. This is lethal. This is worse than a death."

Aer Lingus welcomed the High Court decision, saying it endorsed the process set in train by the board. However, the airline, which, it emerged last week, could eventually be sold to another airline, is unlikely to relish another lengthy court battle.

Senior board members, executives and union bosses believe that following last week's court revelations Mr Foley would find it impossible to manage the company with any degree of effectiveness. They will now want to restore company morale by moving quickly to appoint another chief executive.

The bitter inter-union dispute at the airline has also become a factor in the fall of Michael Foley.

Impact, which has been accused of "poaching" members from rival Siptu, almost issued a statment of support for the chief executive in the middle of last week's court case. Senior union officials only persuaded grassroots members from carrying through the vote by telling them that it could be interpreted as a mark of disrespect by Judge Mella Carroll who was in the middle of hearing injunction proceedings taken by Foley against the airline.

"There was very strong grassroots support in favour of issuing a statement of support," said one union official who attended the meeting at which the subject was discussed for several hours with union members lining up to speak in favour of the chief executive.

Impact represents pilots, cabin crew and middle-management employees at the State airline and has been involved in a bitter and prolonged dispute with rival union Siptu over "poaching" of employees, who left.

Union members are also satisfied that Michael Foley concluded a pay deal with them "over the head" of senior management at the airline, who did not want the deal which gave Impact members more favourable pay and conditions than their colleagues in Siptu.

"In general, Impact would be supportive of his agenda," said union official Michael Landers, who confirmed that officials had to persuade members not to pass the motion in support of Mr Foley.

"He put the growth of the business and enlargement of the fleet as his top priorities and we felt that was a very good thing," he said.

Old 3rd Jun 2001, 15:06
  #10 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

Fully with you on that one Sensible.......M'OL must be wondering how long AL will take to unravel itself fully. He might even bid for their 737s if there is a fire sale! All in AL is knackered......a huge cleared out of the rotting meat is needed. If AL stood alone as a private entity it certainly would have been wound up yonks ago. Besta luck to thier future as they need it.If BA buys them , all they are buying is their slots and p*ss off to the rest.
Old 4th Jun 2001, 02:17
  #11 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

Bearcat, before anyone gloats too much about that (real) possibility they might think about the consequences.

If you are an Irish Ryanair pilot, perhaps (probably) you live in North County Dublin...like many of your colleagues.
Perhaps you own a house in Malahide, Swords, Portmarnock...or even Howth?
How will it affect your asset when 5,000 ALT employees find themselves on the street? If every pilot renting in Malahide marina is made redundant? If the market is suddenly flooded with houses belonging to people deparate to sell? If the local shops, pubs, supermarkets and restaurants and other businesses suddenly lose a large part of their clientele? If all the suppliers who provided services and goods to ALT are suddenly without a major (or only) customer?

If all the young people whose family was supported by a worker at the airport lose their income and have to leave the schools to get out and find work...any repercussions perhaps?

Can Ryanair (overnight) absorb the demand left vacant by Aer Lingus' departure? If the Transatlantic service collapses, leaving only 'outsiders' to service a vital national route...and those providers decide they won't be dictated to by the government's vested interest in serving Shannon, who will operate the US links?
And speaking of the government...where will FF stand when they come to canvass next year for re-election? Do you think their seats in Nth Dublin would be safe? Do you think they are worried about the knock on effects on the whole economy of such a meltdown in the capital city?

Don't be too smug my man. Like it or not we're all in the same little boat...the MV Eirin.
Old 4th Jun 2001, 02:45
  #12 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

In the threads on the offer for AirNZ by QF, there's reference to a Star Alliance "poison pill" of about 50m dollars to prevent movement to other alliances. Does OneWorld have such pills, and if so doesn't that limit the bidders for EI to AA/BA or airlines not currently in an alliance but who are in the frame to join OneW?
Old 4th Jun 2001, 05:49
  #13 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

Capt Sensible
It is soooo nice to see you all in AL running for cover.....
I say they should have let AL lose a long time ago....if they WERE a private company they would have gone to the wall a long time ago....but the like of thick Gov ministers
didn't let it happen.....
Ryanair fends for itself no Gov ministers in it's back pocket......and you know if AL went belly up i don't think that M'OLeary would like to have you lot in his company...atleast he'd be able to chose the people he wanted and not alot of SMUG pilots who look down on everyone else.....
Yes Capt Sensible....you are the smug ones...
you dared to laugh and joke and me because i bet your in-house system and left the Emerald Isle and made it to the majors in the US....if you do all have to sell up then you can be sure i'll be back to buy your house out in Howth and use it as my Summer house when i'm home on holidays......
I say to all those smug pilots in AL the calm before the storm is at hand and hopefully you will all get what's coming to you.....hopefully you might then get to see what the REAL airlines do to keep their heads above water in the REAL degregulated world of aviation and not the "pretend " world that AL and their Gov ministers live in.......do i sound bitter.....yes i guess so...you (AL) turn away so many Irish nationals and think that you are always going to be there being a flag carrierand then you actually have the nerve to look down on the likes of Ryanairn and CityJet and Aer Arann.....well hopefully Mary will sell you off to BA and then we will be calling you a
"Nigel" too......
Come out of your pretend play world and see how us BIG airlines survive in the real world!!!!
Old 4th Jun 2001, 21:11
  #14 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

Ryanair fends for itself, dah di dah...? Really? No Government ministers in back pocket? Really? Helloooo? This is Ireland we're referring to?? No preferential landing rates then? Or doesn't that count? And what about their 737-200 reg EI-CJH? Any idea what that means? You're naiivity is stunning.
Now there's a story that will no doubt unfold one day.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">you dared to laugh and joke and me[sic] because i bet your in-house system and left the Emerald Isle and made it to the majors in the US</font>
Huh? Do I know you??? I think you're getting paranoid!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">if you do all have to sell up then you can be sure i'll be back to buy your house out in Howth </font>
Couldn't afford it kid, even at half the price. But hey, maybe I'll go over to wherever you are and take your job? I'm definitely more qualified...not to mention smarter and better looking.

BTW, I just checked your profile...says you're based in Dublin?! Thought you wre with 'A US major' then, eh? Kind of strange that. New base for United is it??

[This message has been edited by CaptSensible (edited 04 June 2001).]
Old 4th Jun 2001, 22:31
  #15 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

your on your own on this one! Sorry I don't own a two up two down on North Co Dublin but a detached one on the other side of the Liffey.....further I don't work for the Ryan boys. I think the common thread is that AL is about to enter the murkiest waters yet and what ever happens Minister O'Rourke will have a lot to answer for. Would you blame MO'L for being so frustrated with her total incompetance....you name it etc.

Besta luck and I mean it.

Rgds Capt Bear

[This message has been edited by Bearcat (edited 04 June 2001).]
Old 5th Jun 2001, 09:59
  #16 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

Capt Sensible
well to answer your last comment first...
i put in Dublin based because i'm Irish...
not because i'm based there...duh.....
I'm based in Denver Co.....be glad to show
you around 1 of the best airlines if not THE best airline in the US to work for.
I don't think that you would get in here...if you are THAT long in the system i'd say you were crusing to retirement....
Perhaps that's why you have such an attitude..towards other hard working guys
trying to scrape a living together back home in Ireland.
As for being paranoid......wow...where's your sense of humour gone.....oh didn't i hear you quote that to me before???
But hey i'm not going to get into tit for tat
basis....i'm just saying that AL have had the aviation monopoly in Ireland for way too long now and now it's time for the younger airlines to take over....
Too many flag carriers try to live on them being the national carrier so hence all the natives will travel with them....well not anymore...i can remember AL charging IEP230.00 for an economy return ticket to LHR and then Ryanair,Dan Air,Virgin(in a viscount) show up and hey now you can get there for so much less......basically
I hope that the Ryan's and CityJet's keep on doing what they are doing and take that smug looks and attitudes away from you all....perhaps you might revert to the attitude you had when you started as being a fellow aviator....if you ever had that attitude....personally i don't think you ever did.....perhaps you are the "dead wood"
that needs clearing out.
Old 5th Jun 2001, 13:11
  #17 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

On the airwaves, I think Capt Sensible has a point.It was a government minister (Brennan) who interrupted a normal commercial arrangement and removed Aer Lingus from the Dub/STD route and gave it to Ryanair back a few years. The rest as the say is history. However the fat lady has not even started to sing yet so expect to see more Jeans than silk in the castle shortly .Perhaps Capt Sensible's curiosity on the EI-CJH may eventually be answered.
Old 5th Jun 2001, 17:33
  #18 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

No worries, I think it went right over his head.
Old 5th Jun 2001, 19:35
  #19 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

I work for EI and its a very sad time for we who care.I love working for my national flag carrier.However dispite many comments by ppl I meet I have no grudge against Ryanair.They do their job the same as us.We should not look down on them as scruffy and they should not look down on us as dead wood.We all work in the same business.Indeed many of the flight or cabin crews know and get on with each other.The perceived rivalry is a perception of non-airline ppl helped by those suits who make decisions that make us the front-line staff's job harder.As an employee I think competion is good for both airlines as it makes us try harder to be the best.
Moral in the company is very bad at the moment due to the situation in head office at the moment.The company is shafting the man who wanted to save the airline.Also the industrial action in the last few months could have been avoided except for the scheer intransience of the management who in some cases have been there in a cosy job for years.There are a lot of ppl in EI who would unfortunately have lost their position under Mr.Foleys plan but at least we could have an airline that made a profit and was efficient.
To cite a point concerning efficiency:Recently EI received a new aircraft,an senior manager came on board in LAX and went 'down to look at our new plane'.The manager found that approx 20% of the individual screens were u/s.She then proceeded to berate the senior flight attendant on board as if it was her fault in front of the pax. When told that an engineer had explained that the parts were not availible the reply from the manager was 'Well engineers don't know everything'
To me this shows the lack of support the front line staff have got from their management in EI and how far removed some of them are from reality in an airline.They are happy enjoying their cosy jobs a free flights. It also illustrates the problems in the system whereby EI order a new a/c yet do not order any spare parts for the systems onboard. EI management try to spend as little as possible in the short term.No consideration seems to be given to the future.
This is the type of dead wood thinking that EI need to remove.As cabin crew we see cutbacks and shortages onboard which are thought up by someone in an office who does not have to explain that to order a veg meal you have to phone here,write here and do a handstand while checking in to get it.
I love my airline and all of the cabin crew do as well yet we are being made to look like imbeciles by a support system which seems to still use the abacus.

I apologise if my rant seems off topic or a bit over the top.I realise I only see my part of the problem but among cabin crew there is an mood of complete distrust towards management,who to us seem to be apponitees guarding their fiefdom with total disregard to the greater good and henceforth the good of the passengers.Aer Lingus are a tiny airline but we have an extremely well known brand name that is being eroded by a few dinosaurs of the business world.

[This message has been edited by Bramble (edited 05 June 2001).]
Old 5th Jun 2001, 23:32
  #20 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

To all Concerned,
The Aer Lingus employees web site I was telling you all about is up and running it is called EI-ACTION
Well done to all concerned.
They tell me it will be updated regularly.

So now you can post there if you wish.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.