Air Canada *COULD* be grounded this weekend
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Air Canada *COULD* be grounded this weekend
The bankruptcy judge gave AC an extension until saturday midnight to try to get an agreement with the pilots union.
AC already has agreements with the FA's, mechanics and ground crews. Looks like the pilots have the fate of the airline in their hands.
On the other hand, if this fails, I hope that the Canadian government doesn't try to bail out AC. They made enough of a mess when they forced AC to take-over Canadian and guarantee no job losses for a couple of years.
Sad times for a once proud national carrier.
http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/05/30/air_canada030530
AC already has agreements with the FA's, mechanics and ground crews. Looks like the pilots have the fate of the airline in their hands.
On the other hand, if this fails, I hope that the Canadian government doesn't try to bail out AC. They made enough of a mess when they forced AC to take-over Canadian and guarantee no job losses for a couple of years.
Sad times for a once proud national carrier.
http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/05/30/air_canada030530
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>>Life will go on even if AC fails. Looks like they wouldn't be the last of the former state airlines to fail.
Like United a few months ago, Air Canada may be getting a severe reality check after being God's gift to aviation. I've been there, done that, a couple of times...
Like United a few months ago, Air Canada may be getting a severe reality check after being God's gift to aviation. I've been there, done that, a couple of times...
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Something that concerns me (and I'm not involved in commercial aviation) but with the job market the way it is, where will the 3000+ pilots in the ACPA go, that's a heck of a lot of qualified and experianced pilots out of work vying for (what I can see) as too few positions.
Interesting how this plays out.
Interesting how this plays out.
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A very good point, it is fine to be cavalier about the AC situ but many of our colleagues depend on its survival. The latest SARS outbreak could not have come at a worst time. Lets hope it works out.
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Hmm AC is in a rather unique situation in that the Government has said that it will not let the National Carrier fail. But when it comes to putting your money where your mouth is, well we’ll see…
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If AC fails can other airlines take up the slack or is that bilateral permitting? For instance could BA put a bunch of 747s on the YYZ route to replace AC?
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So Air Canada finally gets a taste of what it did with such gusto to
Worldways
Odyssey
CrownAir
Ports O' Call
Nationair
Holidair
Wardair
Canadian and
Canada 3000
There will be few tears shed by the thousands of pilots, F/A's, tecchies and families affected by AC's greed and avarice over the years. AC systematically put each and every one of its competitors out of business while offering little in its place apart from an overbearing arrogance and tired old cookie-chuckers.
What goes around, comes around. Enjoy the ride, boys.
Worldways
Odyssey
CrownAir
Ports O' Call
Nationair
Holidair
Wardair
Canadian and
Canada 3000
There will be few tears shed by the thousands of pilots, F/A's, tecchies and families affected by AC's greed and avarice over the years. AC systematically put each and every one of its competitors out of business while offering little in its place apart from an overbearing arrogance and tired old cookie-chuckers.
What goes around, comes around. Enjoy the ride, boys.
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Underpant you need a good wash and reality check.
Most of the failed carriers listed were CHARTERS at a time when AC very few charters.
Wardair was bought by Cdn which later was bought by AC.
As for C3 they bought overprice cie.
Most of the failed carriers listed were CHARTERS at a time when AC very few charters.
Wardair was bought by Cdn which later was bought by AC.
As for C3 they bought overprice cie.
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MarkD
I don't believe so but it's pretty irrelevant as the Government will not let AC fail because of the political fall out. There will be some sort of "made in Canada" compromise in which no one will be happy. I'm told thats the sign of successful bargaining agreement, all parties believe that they got screwed.
Cpt. Underpants
Or should I call you Superhero as your profile suggests? Your juvenile comments are not very constructive perhaps we could replace them and you with a rock because that would be far more useful. Grow up...
Be safe out there..
I don't believe so but it's pretty irrelevant as the Government will not let AC fail because of the political fall out. There will be some sort of "made in Canada" compromise in which no one will be happy. I'm told thats the sign of successful bargaining agreement, all parties believe that they got screwed.
Cpt. Underpants
Or should I call you Superhero as your profile suggests? Your juvenile comments are not very constructive perhaps we could replace them and you with a rock because that would be far more useful. Grow up...
Be safe out there..
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The main problen is scope of jets up to 110 seats which are presently flown by AC mainline.
ALPA Jazz (AC connectors) agreed with AC management to undercut all flying up to 75 seats and bid for up to 110 seats.
Those plane are now at AC mainline.
ALPA Jazz (AC connectors) agreed with AC management to undercut all flying up to 75 seats and bid for up to 110 seats.
Those plane are now at AC mainline.
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MarkD,
That is probably what would happen if the worst comes to pass. Hopefully all parties concerned will get it together before that is necessary. The last thing that the Canadian industry needs is other countries coming in to take "our" pax. We would kiss any career advancement goodbye...
That is probably what would happen if the worst comes to pass. Hopefully all parties concerned will get it together before that is necessary. The last thing that the Canadian industry needs is other countries coming in to take "our" pax. We would kiss any career advancement goodbye...
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North Shore
believe me when I say I don't want it to happen!
I fly BA so I need AC to keep the LHR-YYZ fares somewhat competitive, but my fiancee is flying AC over here in less than five weeks, already booked. And to think we were looking at US YYZ-PHL-SNN but she was leery of flying an American airline if she could avoid it!
I thought the bilateral might be similar to Ireland-US [if we don't fly, you don't fly]
believe me when I say I don't want it to happen!
I fly BA so I need AC to keep the LHR-YYZ fares somewhat competitive, but my fiancee is flying AC over here in less than five weeks, already booked. And to think we were looking at US YYZ-PHL-SNN but she was leery of flying an American airline if she could avoid it!
I thought the bilateral might be similar to Ireland-US [if we don't fly, you don't fly]
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So, when rational arguments fail, you resort to insults?
AC is NOT the holy grail or some other religious artifact, for Pete's sake! Stop talking about it in hushed tones...
It's an airline. Badly run, inadequate and inefficient. How many years of profit have AC ever posted? As long as AC pay it's skybags $65K a year and ramp rats earn more than it's pilots, it should never be bailed out by the Federal Government.
It's a different world out there, in case you haven't noticed. AC belongs in a museum, along with all the other failed Trudeau-esque icons of a failed socialist state.
AC is NOT the holy grail or some other religious artifact, for Pete's sake! Stop talking about it in hushed tones...
It's an airline. Badly run, inadequate and inefficient. How many years of profit have AC ever posted? As long as AC pay it's skybags $65K a year and ramp rats earn more than it's pilots, it should never be bailed out by the Federal Government.
It's a different world out there, in case you haven't noticed. AC belongs in a museum, along with all the other failed Trudeau-esque icons of a failed socialist state.
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Couldn't agree more with underpants. AC should be, or should have been closed a long time ago. Sorry for the ones that lose the jobs and houses, but that's pathetic management for you.
I feel for the ones that will be hurt, I have lived through four closureswhile in Canada......City Express, Quebec Air, Minerve Canada, and Nationair!! Ths sh*t never stops.
By the way, anybody know where I can get a job!!!!!!!!!!!
Good luck to all.
I feel for the ones that will be hurt, I have lived through four closureswhile in Canada......City Express, Quebec Air, Minerve Canada, and Nationair!! Ths sh*t never stops.
By the way, anybody know where I can get a job!!!!!!!!!!!
Good luck to all.
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The airline's restructuring plan involves retiring all Boeing 747s and Boeing 737s and ordering 85 smaller jets with between 70 and 110 seats.
"To put this in perspective, if Jazz is successful in capturing the 110-seat aircraft, then by 2009 -- using the company's projected fleet plan -- Jazz would have 219 aircraft and Air Canada mainline would be reduced to 132 aircraft," Rainer Bauer, chairman of the Air Canada Pilots Association, wrote in a letter sent to the 3,150 mainline pilots.
"To say this is unacceptable is, to say the least, an understatement."
But ACPA president Don Johnson said the union has already met the company's demands.
"The company has said they need $257-million. We met that target in our minds and if Air Canada wants to make a decision that they need to shut it down because they can't get something different then I guess they'll make that decision," Mr. Johnson said.
Welcome to the silly part of Air Canada's structuring. Everyone -- pilots, aircraft lessors, bondholders, baggage bashers -- knows the pilots' union, called the Air Canada Pilots Association, will make some sort of deal. Equally, everyone knows management's threat to slap the airline into liquidation, perhaps to emerge in vastly truncated form as a subsidiary of Air Canada's Jazz feeder division, is just that -- a threat. The federal government is unlikely to allow a liquidation, lessors don't want to park their aircraft in the Arizona desert, pilots want planes to fly and Air Canada CEO Robert Milton wants to keep his job (though God knows why). Compromises will be found, even if it means the judge, who warned this week of a "cratering" business because of the pilots' intransigence, has to slap some union cement heads around.
"To put this in perspective, if Jazz is successful in capturing the 110-seat aircraft, then by 2009 -- using the company's projected fleet plan -- Jazz would have 219 aircraft and Air Canada mainline would be reduced to 132 aircraft," Rainer Bauer, chairman of the Air Canada Pilots Association, wrote in a letter sent to the 3,150 mainline pilots.
"To say this is unacceptable is, to say the least, an understatement."
But ACPA president Don Johnson said the union has already met the company's demands.
"The company has said they need $257-million. We met that target in our minds and if Air Canada wants to make a decision that they need to shut it down because they can't get something different then I guess they'll make that decision," Mr. Johnson said.
Welcome to the silly part of Air Canada's structuring. Everyone -- pilots, aircraft lessors, bondholders, baggage bashers -- knows the pilots' union, called the Air Canada Pilots Association, will make some sort of deal. Equally, everyone knows management's threat to slap the airline into liquidation, perhaps to emerge in vastly truncated form as a subsidiary of Air Canada's Jazz feeder division, is just that -- a threat. The federal government is unlikely to allow a liquidation, lessors don't want to park their aircraft in the Arizona desert, pilots want planes to fly and Air Canada CEO Robert Milton wants to keep his job (though God knows why). Compromises will be found, even if it means the judge, who warned this week of a "cratering" business because of the pilots' intransigence, has to slap some union cement heads around.
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Cpt. Underpants
Pardon me I hadn't realized that your initial post was a rational factual argument. If you wish to arguer that the ground workers are overpaid in some unions I would have to agree. Besides that AC is an excellent company to work for, unfortunately the Government chose to meddle in the aviation scene so now its up to them to clean it up. After all it was their policies that helped create this mess.
No one is forcing you to live in Canada if you don't like it here move on...
Pardon me I hadn't realized that your initial post was a rational factual argument. If you wish to arguer that the ground workers are overpaid in some unions I would have to agree. Besides that AC is an excellent company to work for, unfortunately the Government chose to meddle in the aviation scene so now its up to them to clean it up. After all it was their policies that helped create this mess.
No one is forcing you to live in Canada if you don't like it here move on...
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The pilots will sink this ship!
I'm an A320 Captain (Senior - A scale), raised in Canada, but moved to the USA years ago because a few co-workers (Former Voyaguer Pilots to name a few) were hell-bent on destroying my career.
Most of those coworkers are now working for Air Canada.
Air Canada's pilots are a bunch of Prima Dona's who WILL sink the already flooded ship.
My heart goes out to those who will suffer (the rest of the team), because the pilots are a bunch of spoiled brats!
Oh, I'm also on my Airlines hiring commitee.
Most of those coworkers are now working for Air Canada.
Air Canada's pilots are a bunch of Prima Dona's who WILL sink the already flooded ship.
My heart goes out to those who will suffer (the rest of the team), because the pilots are a bunch of spoiled brats!
Oh, I'm also on my Airlines hiring commitee.