View Poll Results: Can there ever be any excuse for hijacking an aircraft?
Maybe (Please state reasons in a post)
42
7.62%
Never
501
90.93%
No opinion
8
1.45%
Voters: 551. This poll is closed
Stansted hijackers to be freed
Join Date: Apr 2002
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This is insane. Its a terrorists and criminals charter. How much longer are we law abiding, tax paying citizens going to have to put up with the commission hungry legal profession, presided over by the senile judiciary and governed by wishy washy incompetents, whom are only interested in spin and image.
Unless someone gets their act together Blairs days are numbered and hopefully a conservative party with strong no nonsence leadership will rectify the lunatic asylum called "great" Britain...Come back Thatcher all is forgiven
I dont feel protected from the scum of society and more, but by christ my feet wouldnt touch if i refused topay my TV licence.
There will be a right wing back lash unless things are sorted out.History has a tendency to repeat its self with monotonous regularity, and our so called educated leaders dont be able to see this. Its examples such as this that have given credence to those thugs called the BNP
Unless someone gets their act together Blairs days are numbered and hopefully a conservative party with strong no nonsence leadership will rectify the lunatic asylum called "great" Britain...Come back Thatcher all is forgiven
I dont feel protected from the scum of society and more, but by christ my feet wouldnt touch if i refused topay my TV licence.
There will be a right wing back lash unless things are sorted out.History has a tendency to repeat its self with monotonous regularity, and our so called educated leaders dont be able to see this. Its examples such as this that have given credence to those thugs called the BNP
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As a man with a family, I have to admit to having more than a little sympathy for anyone caught in the terrible situation any Afghan with a mindset that is post-14th century CE must have found himself (and particularly herself) in during the Taleban years. However, (there’s always an ‘however’), I do have a slight problem with the fact that, (laudable as this is), these people seemed as focused on providing as good a life as was possible for their loved ones in flying all the way to the UK rather than stopping at the first safe port outside Afghanistan. Their actions bear a close parallel with the many from the same area who traipsed through five to ten safe countries before declaring themselves refugees in far off Australia.
Whilst it’s totally understandable for any man to try to get the best package on offer (or not on offer!) for his family, the sad fact remains (and this is something that seems to escape many well-meaning bleeding hearts who’ve never lived in the Third World) that if everyone who wants to live in the West is allowed to move there, the West will become exactly what these (economic?) ‘refugees’ are escaping from.
It’s not as though this hasn’t happened before. The Roman Empire wasn’t destroyed by marauding armies of armed invaders – it collapsed from within after many thousands of people from its conquered outer provinces moved to Rome to enjoy the better, easier life that was available there… until so many were sharing a slice of the all too finite cake, the cake was no more and Rome collapsed and Europe entered into what became known as the Dark Ages.
Don’t for one moment think it couldn’t happen again. Just try walking down the street in parts of Brixton late at night or catching a tube alone on certain lines at night and you might think we’re already there.
It will undoubtedly be painful for the people involved, but now that the Taleban have been removed from power, if the UK Government doesn’t send each and every one of the people who arrived on that aircraft back to Afghanistan, what in the world were our troops doing there putting their lives on the line for? - a bloody oil pipeline that has yet to be built?
Oh, did I really say that? Silly, silly me.
Whilst it’s totally understandable for any man to try to get the best package on offer (or not on offer!) for his family, the sad fact remains (and this is something that seems to escape many well-meaning bleeding hearts who’ve never lived in the Third World) that if everyone who wants to live in the West is allowed to move there, the West will become exactly what these (economic?) ‘refugees’ are escaping from.
It’s not as though this hasn’t happened before. The Roman Empire wasn’t destroyed by marauding armies of armed invaders – it collapsed from within after many thousands of people from its conquered outer provinces moved to Rome to enjoy the better, easier life that was available there… until so many were sharing a slice of the all too finite cake, the cake was no more and Rome collapsed and Europe entered into what became known as the Dark Ages.
Don’t for one moment think it couldn’t happen again. Just try walking down the street in parts of Brixton late at night or catching a tube alone on certain lines at night and you might think we’re already there.
It will undoubtedly be painful for the people involved, but now that the Taleban have been removed from power, if the UK Government doesn’t send each and every one of the people who arrived on that aircraft back to Afghanistan, what in the world were our troops doing there putting their lives on the line for? - a bloody oil pipeline that has yet to be built?
Oh, did I really say that? Silly, silly me.
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A very valid point pulse1 ! Their safety became assured when they first landed, perhaps it was their social security benefits and a better lifestyle that didn't become assured until they continued their flight to UK.
I am old enough (just) to remember the condition Britain was in at the end of the second world war. Fortunately, our young men and women did not take the easy option of running off to places that were in a better state-they stayed here or came back-rolled up their sleeves and started to turn it back into the decent place it is today.
There is simply no justification in all these people staying here because their own countries require rebuilding. They should get off their backsides, go home and create the sort of country they want.
...and before someone accuses me of xenophobia: The Germans set an even better example of rebuilding from nothing. Remember, they had seven bells knocked out of them by The Eighth Army Air Force, the Royal Air Force and others. They didn't just sit around complaining that the Americans weren't rebuilding their place fast enough (sorry Iraq!) and that no one was clearing up the litter in the streets. They got stuck in themselves!
I am old enough (just) to remember the condition Britain was in at the end of the second world war. Fortunately, our young men and women did not take the easy option of running off to places that were in a better state-they stayed here or came back-rolled up their sleeves and started to turn it back into the decent place it is today.
There is simply no justification in all these people staying here because their own countries require rebuilding. They should get off their backsides, go home and create the sort of country they want.
...and before someone accuses me of xenophobia: The Germans set an even better example of rebuilding from nothing. Remember, they had seven bells knocked out of them by The Eighth Army Air Force, the Royal Air Force and others. They didn't just sit around complaining that the Americans weren't rebuilding their place fast enough (sorry Iraq!) and that no one was clearing up the litter in the streets. They got stuck in themselves!
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The aircraft was heading to Karachi was it not? Therefore they were on their way out of Afghanistan as soon as they took off. Therefore there was NEVER ANY EXCUSE to hijack the plane.
Join Date: May 2001
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So presumably UK aircrew can now refuse to operate any flight to a country from which people feel a justified desire to leave (eg Zimbabwe, Indonesia or China, to name but a few).
After all, your employer has under UK law a duty of care towards you, and it now appears that UK law permits the use of threats and force against people, as long as they are in command of a mode of transport. I think I'd worry if I drove a truck to and from Eastern Europe as well.
So given that the law will not protect you against assault or murder, how can a company force you to put yourself in harm's way?
Truly bizarre ruling.
After all, your employer has under UK law a duty of care towards you, and it now appears that UK law permits the use of threats and force against people, as long as they are in command of a mode of transport. I think I'd worry if I drove a truck to and from Eastern Europe as well.
So given that the law will not protect you against assault or murder, how can a company force you to put yourself in harm's way?
Truly bizarre ruling.
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Newswatcher
Believe it or not Newswatcher, the Taliban are very much out of power. I know there are bands of worthless thugs roaming the streets in Kabul, but for the 1st time in years girls are now allowed to go to school and people can actually listen to the music they as opposed to getting forced to listen to music the Taliban liked...
This British ruling is truly atrocious and ludicrous at best.
Newark
This British ruling is truly atrocious and ludicrous at best.
Newark
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Although I was astounded by the decision myself, as are many others, I think it does need pointing out that this case sets no legal precedent, since it was on appeal that the original judge was found to have instructed the jury incorrectly. This is the reason for the successful appeal. A point of law is the layman's term for the reason for the overturned judgement.
I do not argue that point, but do agree that the duress argument should hold little water once we get beyond Moscow on the flight concerned. It does beggar belief.
PP
I do not argue that point, but do agree that the duress argument should hold little water once we get beyond Moscow on the flight concerned. It does beggar belief.
PP
I am a figment of my own imagination
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Yet one more disastrous episode in the sending of totaly inapropriate messages to criminals, hijackers and refugees. Court rulings can be overturned crime pays, and hijackers head for England !
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Isn't it the politicians who make the laws, not the judges - they just implement what the politicians decreed. So if people don't like the law then shouldn't they be having a go at the politicians rather than the judges?
Obviously I wasn't at the trial and I don't think the reasons for the judges' decision have been published, but I don't think that they ruled that it was OK to hijack an aeroplane; they ruled that the original judge make a mistake in assuming that the burden of proof was on the defence to indicate that the alleged hijackers were under duress rather than on the prosecution to prove it. Therefore, the subsequent conviction was unsafe, and it's now up to the CPS to decide whether they would like to retry them or not.
Obviously I wasn't at the trial and I don't think the reasons for the judges' decision have been published, but I don't think that they ruled that it was OK to hijack an aeroplane; they ruled that the original judge make a mistake in assuming that the burden of proof was on the defence to indicate that the alleged hijackers were under duress rather than on the prosecution to prove it. Therefore, the subsequent conviction was unsafe, and it's now up to the CPS to decide whether they would like to retry them or not.
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I think if I stuck to my knowledge of air law, this would be a very short thread!
All I'm saying is that the judges are not condoning hijacking an aeroplane any more than the judges who ruled the convictions of the Birmingham Six are condoning blowing up pubs. They ruled that the convictions are unsafe, not that hijacking an aeroplane is OK.
All I'm saying is that the judges are not condoning hijacking an aeroplane any more than the judges who ruled the convictions of the Birmingham Six are condoning blowing up pubs. They ruled that the convictions are unsafe, not that hijacking an aeroplane is OK.
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Hi guys,
there is only one country daft enough to allow this to happen, that's why I don't live the UK anymore, no longer a good and decent place to live because of it's legal system which penalizes the good guys and rewards the bad guys. I wish the SAS had taken these barstewards out in the first place.
last one out turn the lights out!
ATB, PTC
there is only one country daft enough to allow this to happen, that's why I don't live the UK anymore, no longer a good and decent place to live because of it's legal system which penalizes the good guys and rewards the bad guys. I wish the SAS had taken these barstewards out in the first place.
last one out turn the lights out!
ATB, PTC
RomeoRomeo, nice nick 
I have no knowledge of British law, or the case in question.
So I'll keep quiet.
But guys, here in Europe it's the same.
So don't worry!
Your reputation as a nation is not at stake!
The people will always get angry with the judges.
I have no knowledge of British law, or the case in question.
So I'll keep quiet.
But guys, here in Europe it's the same.
So don't worry!
Your reputation as a nation is not at stake!
The people will always get angry with the judges.
It may be that some judges there are just as wimpy as some of our US judges, for example, Judge Lance Ito, who was supposedly "in charge" of a very famous trial years ago in Los Angeles. Is it possible that various elements have covertly threatened the lives of certain judges, not long before the final decisions happen?
Can someone tell me why - if the Taliban were so evil that we had to have a war against them, how did they manage not to be evil enough that people fleeing Afghanistan might legally be refugees? BTW, I seem to recall from the time that there was some doubt as to whether the plane was indeed hijacked - some said that the crew were in on the idea from the beginning. I think it was a flight from Mazar-e-Sharif to Kabul.
Paterbrat, I am very sure that if you were to be tried in a country where "court rulings could not be overturned", we would soon get to hear your sorry mad-right whingeing about democratic standards, justice, etc - because you would in that case have no right of appeal! Court rulings can be overturned in any country that has a civilised system of justice on appeal to a higher court - this is a basic principle of natural justice. What a load of rubbish!
Paterbrat, I am very sure that if you were to be tried in a country where "court rulings could not be overturned", we would soon get to hear your sorry mad-right whingeing about democratic standards, justice, etc - because you would in that case have no right of appeal! Court rulings can be overturned in any country that has a civilised system of justice on appeal to a higher court - this is a basic principle of natural justice. What a load of rubbish!
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Steamchicken - you are well off the mark.
Yes the Taliban were evil, and of course we should give asylum to all in genuine need, and fleeing from that sort of oppresion. But you conveniently ignore some very important points.
These people had already reached a safe country - Russia. Under International law (the Geneva Convention I think), a refugee should claim Asylum in the First safe country they reach. They Didn't. Instead they used theat of violence to get the plane to the UK. Assuming that this is overlooked and we grant them asylum, that asylum is granted to protect them from the authorities of their government - not an amnesty from international law (Tokyo convention) or UK law.
If it looks like a duck flies like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck and should be treated as such (preferably with Orange sauce, but I digress). As Hijackers and should still be in prison. Their lawyer has allowed them to get away with it on a technicality and that you support this release of dangerous people such as this is concerning.
There is another, beter end to this situation. As the Taleban are no longer in power, surely we can now send these people home. That way the British taxpayer won't have to feed them if they serve more time in Chokey, and wont have to foot the bill for their compensation.
Yes the Taliban were evil, and of course we should give asylum to all in genuine need, and fleeing from that sort of oppresion. But you conveniently ignore some very important points.
These people had already reached a safe country - Russia. Under International law (the Geneva Convention I think), a refugee should claim Asylum in the First safe country they reach. They Didn't. Instead they used theat of violence to get the plane to the UK. Assuming that this is overlooked and we grant them asylum, that asylum is granted to protect them from the authorities of their government - not an amnesty from international law (Tokyo convention) or UK law.
If it looks like a duck flies like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck and should be treated as such (preferably with Orange sauce, but I digress). As Hijackers and should still be in prison. Their lawyer has allowed them to get away with it on a technicality and that you support this release of dangerous people such as this is concerning.
There is another, beter end to this situation. As the Taleban are no longer in power, surely we can now send these people home. That way the British taxpayer won't have to feed them if they serve more time in Chokey, and wont have to foot the bill for their compensation.
I am a figment of my own imagination
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Steamchicken I am interested as to why you feel that these hijackers need special consideration, or was it only I who am rightwing mad. Actualy I do live where court rulings are unlikely to be overturned and justice is swift, I accept the rules under which I live, it goes with the turf. My comment, and indignation was for the message such a repeal will send. It was hijacking. It was with weapons. It was way beyond a simple fleeing from the country they were in. It went on for three days. They threatened to kill everybody on board even after they had reached England.
Your left wing PC opinions are regretfully as much an anathema to me, I tend however to keep that opinion to myself.
Your left wing PC opinions are regretfully as much an anathema to me, I tend however to keep that opinion to myself.
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I heard someone say the other day that the 'people' who hijack aircraft to claim asylum in the uk away from a dangerous or poor country have a point and they can sympathise with them.
As much as i disagree with people living in danger or poverty(i wish it didnt happen)....hijacking an aircraft is saying that you deem yourself more important or valuable to the human race than the other 315 or so other people onboard! Regardless of the fact that there may be doctors, surgeons, pilots, firemen, policemen, women and children and families onboard. I ask the people who hijack these aircraft...'Explain how you are more important than ANY of these categories!!'
These people CANNOT get away with this. Look at the asylum seekers who come to the UK by land and sea for example! a few come into the UK and get the softly approach and are granted asylum. The rest of the world gets wind of this and the spiral grows and grows and GROWS. And thats not to mention what sort of a message terrorists get from this. I bet they are thinking 'hey if we arent successful in crashing hundreds of innocent people into a building then at least we wont even get prison!!'
This countries' government and legal system sickens me. I cant believe people are able to make such OBVIOUS bad judgements and get away with it. I thought these guys who make the judgements are supposed to be lords! They appear to be the most ill-educated people in Britain.
Sorry for moaning but im sure most of you feel the same way.
Its disgusting these people have been let off. In light of the direct threats of Al Qaeda at the UK i feel much less safer in my job than i used to.
Cheers
Dave
As much as i disagree with people living in danger or poverty(i wish it didnt happen)....hijacking an aircraft is saying that you deem yourself more important or valuable to the human race than the other 315 or so other people onboard! Regardless of the fact that there may be doctors, surgeons, pilots, firemen, policemen, women and children and families onboard. I ask the people who hijack these aircraft...'Explain how you are more important than ANY of these categories!!'
These people CANNOT get away with this. Look at the asylum seekers who come to the UK by land and sea for example! a few come into the UK and get the softly approach and are granted asylum. The rest of the world gets wind of this and the spiral grows and grows and GROWS. And thats not to mention what sort of a message terrorists get from this. I bet they are thinking 'hey if we arent successful in crashing hundreds of innocent people into a building then at least we wont even get prison!!'
This countries' government and legal system sickens me. I cant believe people are able to make such OBVIOUS bad judgements and get away with it. I thought these guys who make the judgements are supposed to be lords! They appear to be the most ill-educated people in Britain.
Sorry for moaning but im sure most of you feel the same way.
Its disgusting these people have been let off. In light of the direct threats of Al Qaeda at the UK i feel much less safer in my job than i used to.
Cheers
Dave