FLYBE in to the black,but at what cost !!
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excrab,
First of all I am not really interested in a big discussion and wasn't the whole topic already moving away from its name when people started to be quite personal, as it appears, with Keep It Lit?
BTW, this is not really mature behaviour of people, because why not have a normal discussion without getting personal? Even if this requires a bit more discipline from people.
Anyway, the BE CRJ's weren't fitted with flap 8 and logo lights (if I remember correctly), which are peanuts compared to the extra's you mention. But this is not a contest and you seem to know quite a bit more about options on the BE airplanes than I do anyway, so..
About the theory of old and new airplanes. What you say makes sense, but how come the 'known' reliability of the CRJ's was generally a lot better than the 146's. Is this just a matter of design, airplane quality or because the 146 is older?
Maybe Bombardier just went a bit too far with stretching their 8's.
Ain't it fun to have a little discussion in the morning?
Cheers,
Ptt
First of all I am not really interested in a big discussion and wasn't the whole topic already moving away from its name when people started to be quite personal, as it appears, with Keep It Lit?
BTW, this is not really mature behaviour of people, because why not have a normal discussion without getting personal? Even if this requires a bit more discipline from people.
Anyway, the BE CRJ's weren't fitted with flap 8 and logo lights (if I remember correctly), which are peanuts compared to the extra's you mention. But this is not a contest and you seem to know quite a bit more about options on the BE airplanes than I do anyway, so..
About the theory of old and new airplanes. What you say makes sense, but how come the 'known' reliability of the CRJ's was generally a lot better than the 146's. Is this just a matter of design, airplane quality or because the 146 is older?
Maybe Bombardier just went a bit too far with stretching their 8's.
Ain't it fun to have a little discussion in the morning?
Cheers,
Ptt
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Excrab et al,
I won't get into a major discussion here but merely wanted to highlight to Joe Public who read this thread that not ALL crew are hacked off with low morale. Maybe I am only speaking for myself and maybe I will be the only one left in the company soon!
However, I seriously do believe that there are many others that share my outlook but perhaps don't have the confidence to stand up in the crew room and be the opposition to those bleating on about how hard they have had it. I am sure flybe is not alone in this. Infact I am well aware this is the case as I have worked for 5 airlines now and the crew room chat is always the same. The crewroom can be likened to a factory shop floor. This does not imply that those moaning have not had a valid reason to be fed up. But if I take my blinkers off I see the "big picture" and realise that is aviation today, not the individual airlines fault.
For instance I stood up recently when forced into trying to say the payrise was a shocker and when was I leaving. I was quite blunt back and said my views. All I got was sneers and contempt................... Whatever!
Raw Data has got some good points. I have chatted to many other flightdeck of other majors and minors. Most if not all seem to have a very insecure situation with redundances and forced base changes and pay cuts or demotions. We have on the whole been very lucky.......On the whole. But there have been a few loosers I agree.
I am just glad that flybe can realise the dreams of many wannabes that have been waiting in the wings for a while now shoveling pony doodoos whilst we have been flying around above them. We can all remeber back to those days!!!!
I won't get into a major discussion here but merely wanted to highlight to Joe Public who read this thread that not ALL crew are hacked off with low morale. Maybe I am only speaking for myself and maybe I will be the only one left in the company soon!
However, I seriously do believe that there are many others that share my outlook but perhaps don't have the confidence to stand up in the crew room and be the opposition to those bleating on about how hard they have had it. I am sure flybe is not alone in this. Infact I am well aware this is the case as I have worked for 5 airlines now and the crew room chat is always the same. The crewroom can be likened to a factory shop floor. This does not imply that those moaning have not had a valid reason to be fed up. But if I take my blinkers off I see the "big picture" and realise that is aviation today, not the individual airlines fault.
For instance I stood up recently when forced into trying to say the payrise was a shocker and when was I leaving. I was quite blunt back and said my views. All I got was sneers and contempt................... Whatever!
Raw Data has got some good points. I have chatted to many other flightdeck of other majors and minors. Most if not all seem to have a very insecure situation with redundances and forced base changes and pay cuts or demotions. We have on the whole been very lucky.......On the whole. But there have been a few loosers I agree.
I am just glad that flybe can realise the dreams of many wannabes that have been waiting in the wings for a while now shoveling pony doodoos whilst we have been flying around above them. We can all remeber back to those days!!!!
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what is wrong with a Q400
What is wrong with the Q400? Cockpit? Feels like a great working place to me. Performance? Hard to complain about that. Speed? Within 700miles we never found a problem staying within the jet schedules. Altitude? How often do you really meet a line of TS on route which you cannot circumnavigate. Reliablity? Sure she sometimes says -no go -when there is no reason for it - anoying. But besides these nuisance messages, are there any real design problems, something to be scared of? Never met one.
I donīt know if the PAX like it enough - marketing has to decide that . I understand that maintenance hates it some times - but I donīt work there. From a pilots standpoint, I donīt understand what should be wrong with that plane.
Well of course after two years of flying Q400 I still met nobody knowing the trick to consistently land her somehow smooth.
I donīt know if the PAX like it enough - marketing has to decide that . I understand that maintenance hates it some times - but I donīt work there. From a pilots standpoint, I donīt understand what should be wrong with that plane.
Well of course after two years of flying Q400 I still met nobody knowing the trick to consistently land her somehow smooth.
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Maxrpm.
Great to hear your comments on the 400.
I don't fly it, but know several who do. You've got to be impressed by it's peformance ! What was it somebody was getting the other day, 360 kts cruise, 4000 roc with full load ! and a fuel burn of 30% of the 146. Maybe somebody could verify that !
When are people going to realize that it's not the Public that don't like turboprops, it's us pilots ! For reasons of pay and our own pride we don't want to fly them. Thats why we slagg off TP's, in the hope that our management don't buy them. Whilst one or two pax might mention the 'Lancaster Bomber' they're about to board, the vast majority of passengers when later asked what engines their aircraft had, would'nt have a clue !
The very few pax that are put off and would'nt book again because of a/c type are easily accounted for in lower operating costs. Anyhow in a recent survey I saw, ticket price, running to schedule and friendly service (in that order) now seem to be the most important factors when choosing an Airline.
Maybe FLYBE management have made a correct and courageous decision going for Q400's, lets hope so!. Time will tell.
I can think of plenty of Companies who went bust, shortly after getting jets (Jersey European very nearly after the 146's). But I can't think of one who went bust through NOT getting jets.
Great to hear your comments on the 400.
I don't fly it, but know several who do. You've got to be impressed by it's peformance ! What was it somebody was getting the other day, 360 kts cruise, 4000 roc with full load ! and a fuel burn of 30% of the 146. Maybe somebody could verify that !
When are people going to realize that it's not the Public that don't like turboprops, it's us pilots ! For reasons of pay and our own pride we don't want to fly them. Thats why we slagg off TP's, in the hope that our management don't buy them. Whilst one or two pax might mention the 'Lancaster Bomber' they're about to board, the vast majority of passengers when later asked what engines their aircraft had, would'nt have a clue !
The very few pax that are put off and would'nt book again because of a/c type are easily accounted for in lower operating costs. Anyhow in a recent survey I saw, ticket price, running to schedule and friendly service (in that order) now seem to be the most important factors when choosing an Airline.
Maybe FLYBE management have made a correct and courageous decision going for Q400's, lets hope so!. Time will tell.
I can think of plenty of Companies who went bust, shortly after getting jets (Jersey European very nearly after the 146's). But I can't think of one who went bust through NOT getting jets.
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flybe interview
I know i'm barging in on an unrelated matter, but
I would be much obliged if any of the flybe chaps posting could furnish me with any information you can offer on the flybe pilot interview. E.g structure, how long it lasts type of questions put to candidate etc etc .....
Excuse me for being simplistic but whatever niggles you may have about the Q400 surely it beats flying a PA28 with a leaking door.
Cheers Chaps.
I would be much obliged if any of the flybe chaps posting could furnish me with any information you can offer on the flybe pilot interview. E.g structure, how long it lasts type of questions put to candidate etc etc .....
Excuse me for being simplistic but whatever niggles you may have about the Q400 surely it beats flying a PA28 with a leaking door.
Cheers Chaps.
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Yep and I'm sure there was a time when you wished you were flying a PA28 instead of the single engine A/C you were in.
Thats the trouble with most pilots, including myself. There's always something else your wishing you are in - and a different A/C too.
Thats the trouble with most pilots, including myself. There's always something else your wishing you are in - and a different A/C too.
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Sort yerselves owt!!!!
Hey up Capt Air Prox.
"I am just glad that flybe can realise the dreams of many wannabes that have been waiting in the wings for a while now shoveling pony doodoos whilst we have been flying around above them. We can all remeber back to those days!!!!"
Thats just the sort of talk yon directors luv. When will you types get it into yer heads that yer should get a fair days pay fer a fair days work. When t'wind is owling round t'cockpit window, its raining so ard you can't see t'end of the runway, and yer've got so much rudder in yer little knees are trembling, all that "dreams" rubbish goes out t'window. If you cock up you loose yer job and the airline loses a lot of dosh. So don't sell yerself so cheap. Yer worth more than that.
To that other fella who ses me beloved 146 is like a "fisherprice toy"... Sort yerself out lad. When yerve flown a few more types in yer long and distinguished career, you'll realise its a reet good bit of kit. Especially when you loose an engine. Its as safe as houses.
As fer t'rest of yer. I ope thing get better, and them fancy people with them fancy words start to realise yer true worth.
All t'best.
"I am just glad that flybe can realise the dreams of many wannabes that have been waiting in the wings for a while now shoveling pony doodoos whilst we have been flying around above them. We can all remeber back to those days!!!!"
Thats just the sort of talk yon directors luv. When will you types get it into yer heads that yer should get a fair days pay fer a fair days work. When t'wind is owling round t'cockpit window, its raining so ard you can't see t'end of the runway, and yer've got so much rudder in yer little knees are trembling, all that "dreams" rubbish goes out t'window. If you cock up you loose yer job and the airline loses a lot of dosh. So don't sell yerself so cheap. Yer worth more than that.
To that other fella who ses me beloved 146 is like a "fisherprice toy"... Sort yerself out lad. When yerve flown a few more types in yer long and distinguished career, you'll realise its a reet good bit of kit. Especially when you loose an engine. Its as safe as houses.
As fer t'rest of yer. I ope thing get better, and them fancy people with them fancy words start to realise yer true worth.
All t'best.
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Aye Perseus, reet grand lad!
An dont let 'tem yung wippur snappers furget it lad....
Many twas day when wur flying 't Saabruuken or 't Koln, wit hower own persnal snow storm t'up threw chuffin flowere, int midle ut night.
Y' tell yung kidds t'day an they dont beleeve ye !
RD, still that 1% element of doubt ?
An dont let 'tem yung wippur snappers furget it lad....
Many twas day when wur flying 't Saabruuken or 't Koln, wit hower own persnal snow storm t'up threw chuffin flowere, int midle ut night.
Y' tell yung kidds t'day an they dont beleeve ye !
RD, still that 1% element of doubt ?
Last edited by Smokie; 21st May 2003 at 17:55.
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errrr.....
Where exactly does it say that the airline is profitable?
Sunny Jim was recently quoted as saying the airline was "cash neutral" - which means there is plenty of money in the bank for summer seats sold but not yet flown.
That's quite different from profitability. Beware the flyBE PR machine - being a limited company and not a plc they can be more than a little economical with the truth and get away with it.
Only a couple of months back, Jim himself admitted that the airline was still a year or two off profitablility.
Where exactly does it say that the airline is profitable?
Sunny Jim was recently quoted as saying the airline was "cash neutral" - which means there is plenty of money in the bank for summer seats sold but not yet flown.
That's quite different from profitability. Beware the flyBE PR machine - being a limited company and not a plc they can be more than a little economical with the truth and get away with it.
Only a couple of months back, Jim himself admitted that the airline was still a year or two off profitablility.
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The annual result was announced at a meeting last week and will be available on the Intranet shortly. Basically, the Company is now better than cash neutral--an operating loss was offset by other random income and resulted in a small actual profit. It is quite correct to say that further progress is needed before an day to day operating profit is achieved.
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Perseus,
Your quite right but it still beats doing the same thing in a freezing, leaking, noisy cockpit of a Baron, Seneca or Navajo into Alderney with NDB only approach and 60kts of wind over the cliffs, at night and raining. The Dash is a piece of piddle compared to that. A Lucking Fuksherry. ;-)
Your quite right but it still beats doing the same thing in a freezing, leaking, noisy cockpit of a Baron, Seneca or Navajo into Alderney with NDB only approach and 60kts of wind over the cliffs, at night and raining. The Dash is a piece of piddle compared to that. A Lucking Fuksherry. ;-)
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MaxProp
Does the random income include a large injection from the trust or any compensation for the RJX programme being cancelled?
Was it substantial or small? Jim suggested the trust injection was not insignificant.
Does the random income include a large injection from the trust or any compensation for the RJX programme being cancelled?
Was it substantial or small? Jim suggested the trust injection was not insignificant.
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The aim this year was to be cash neutral i.e. no injection from the trust. This was bettered (slightly) in a small profit. Reading the figures which will be on the intranet I think the RJX compensation was in the previous financial year i.e. used to offset the previous large loss.
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The reclusive family in the Channel Islands will simply modulate the so called " neutral" situation to prevent an uprising by the staff for fair pay. The hidden element is that FlyBe lease it's aircraft from very expensive sources and pay way over industry norm for the privilige. Take a look how BE BAe 146 lease rates rocketed up over recent years when so many were laying around parked up and stored.
So who owns the lease company? - non other than the "offshore" Walker Family Trust who suck all of FlyBe's cash back into there pockets in Jersey.
You lot may as well give up!
So who owns the lease company? - non other than the "offshore" Walker Family Trust who suck all of FlyBe's cash back into there pockets in Jersey.
You lot may as well give up!
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"So who owns the lease company? - non other than the "offshore" Walker Family Trust who suck all of FlyBe's cash back into there pockets in Jersey."
By eck lad yer've made me blood boil. When I was there, (for quite a while) in t'good old days, there was many a time when we was struggling a bit on t'profitability side, an it was Mr Walker what put is and in is pocket and bailed us out. If it weren't for that there wouldn't be an airline. We always got a Turkey at Christmas an a bonus too. I was never short of a crate o brown ale fer t'festivities. Don't know where you get yer ideas from, but yer way out lad!
Capt Air Prox.
I see yer point lad. Anyway anyone what can do one of them NDB things as got my respect, cos the're reet ard.
All t'best.
By eck lad yer've made me blood boil. When I was there, (for quite a while) in t'good old days, there was many a time when we was struggling a bit on t'profitability side, an it was Mr Walker what put is and in is pocket and bailed us out. If it weren't for that there wouldn't be an airline. We always got a Turkey at Christmas an a bonus too. I was never short of a crate o brown ale fer t'festivities. Don't know where you get yer ideas from, but yer way out lad!
Capt Air Prox.
I see yer point lad. Anyway anyone what can do one of them NDB things as got my respect, cos the're reet ard.
All t'best.
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I heard some mutterings at EGTE the other day about the lack of additional BAE.146-300s available for lease. Flybe were alleged to be looking at adding 4 Fokker 100s to the fleet instead. Dunno if there is any truth in it - this is a rumours board after all!