To Go or Not to Go
Guest
Posts: n/a
Tan
I was airborne in the SE UK about the time JW411 and witnessed the CB activity and it's intensity.
But of course, because I am only a PPL with several hundred hours of experience, including time in aircraft with WX radar (on which I was trained), I suppose that my opinion is meaningless to you.
JW411
I am surprised that anyone would have taken off into the base of the CBs that looked pretty fierce as our crew manoeuvred carefully around them, with the seat belt sign on in the cruise. Not a bump was felt, but at least one pax appreciated the airmanship displayed.
Of course, tan is invulnerable to CB activities so I must fly with him in the future - not.
I was airborne in the SE UK about the time JW411 and witnessed the CB activity and it's intensity.
But of course, because I am only a PPL with several hundred hours of experience, including time in aircraft with WX radar (on which I was trained), I suppose that my opinion is meaningless to you.
JW411
I am surprised that anyone would have taken off into the base of the CBs that looked pretty fierce as our crew manoeuvred carefully around them, with the seat belt sign on in the cruise. Not a bump was felt, but at least one pax appreciated the airmanship displayed.
Of course, tan is invulnerable to CB activities so I must fly with him in the future - not.
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Europe
Age: 73
Posts: 206
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think that if there's someone with a problem on this forum it's possibly you Tan. It's a fact of life that whilst the vast majority will make a balanced decision based on available data and personal experience, there are those who may just allow 'other' factors to influence them into throwing caution to the wind and go. And yes, 99.99% of the time they'll get away with it. I understand what you are saying but you seem to be missing the point that perhaps not all are as disciplined in their decision making. The proof is in a fair number of accident reports!
Now that's funny 
Just a different comment for a moment:
Is part of the problem that Punctuality Statistics get solemnly recorded and published in "league tables" by airline, ending up in the press, taking no account of why any delay occurs. The implication in these tables is that more delays = poor operator. So being sensible about the weather drives you down these tables.
Is part of the problem that Punctuality Statistics get solemnly recorded and published in "league tables" by airline, ending up in the press, taking no account of why any delay occurs. The implication in these tables is that more delays = poor operator. So being sensible about the weather drives you down these tables.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Somewhere Up Country, old prune...
Age: 79
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Way back in during my stint in the Vietnam war, a crusty old Lt. Col. told me when discussing a similar subject that it is far better to be alive and in trouble with the boss than be a dead hot shot; a piece of advice that I have assiduously followed during the last 30 odd accident and incident free years of professional flying. Sit it out dude, and have a cup of coffee while you watch the show.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: California USA
Posts: 719
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Capt J, ya remember which USAF base had the slogan "There ain't no need to fly through a thunderstorm in peacetime?"
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: somewhere underneath 3rd rock
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As a humble PAX who flys gliders, may I request that those "brave" pilots willing to takeoff into a Cb read this AAIB report - http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/bulletin/dec99/bga3705.htm
And in particular,
What damage would this have caused to a 737 ?
This strike was close to Luton.
And in particular,
The Action Integral energy level of this strike was assessed, by test and calculation, to have been at least some 8 to 9 fold higher than the Action Integral level specified in Advisory Circular AC 20-53A which lightning certificated aircraft are currently required to tolerate with minimal damage.
This strike was close to Luton.
Paxing All Over The World
This board may have a number of non-pilot types but I think I am safe in saying that the pax that comment here are not your regular pax.
We travel often and have a genuine interest in the business. Some of us pay our own tickets and pay for them in Premium, Biz and First. I am not going to start a P. game as to who-has-the-biggest-hours but I have been a pax for 38 years across a rather large selection of aircraft. Having lived in Africa, I have seen Cb activity! All that I have read in this confirms that I would be anxious about continuing a journey folliwng a lightning strike.
From one poster who states that he is a Captain ... "How immature and just the type that no one wants flying on their airline. What are these brilliant types telling the poor passenger seating next to them? Probably scaring them half to death with their half-baked ideas."
Let me know your airline and I shall oblige by not flying on it and save you the trouble of having to impress me with your skills. As to scaring them? I am one of those that spends time reassuring the nervous pax next to me.
I have often had to spend half an hour during taxy/departure to explain all the noises to my neighbour. Tell them how long I have been flying and never an incident, when I would rather be reading my book or looking out of the window. I tell people to turn off their mobile phones when I hear them switch on during the roll out or taxy. I have helped c/c to coax a child out from under the seat so that it could be secured for landing. This took ten minutes, another five and we would have had to hold whilst we continued to get this screaming brat to do as it's mother failed to get it to do. I have called c/c when I spotted a pax that was unrestrained due to a broken belt and the cabin was now insecure. Sorry if that offends your need to be in control, there are more stories like that.
The only one I left recently was a neighbour telling his female that the aircraft was all computer driven and the dangers blah blah (it was a 738) but the flight was too short and view too beautiful to miss.
As to Pilot In Command. Yes, I can see that this is a major issue that I cannot comment on. My nephew is a Captain, so discussing matters with him is as close as I can get. Captains get paid to listen and judge. If that judgement leads to them endangering their a/c, then they have failed.
WHBM - Punctuality Statistics. I think this is the problem, pure and simple. In the UK we have very low levels of Cb activity by comparison to others - such as the USA - and that might make it more difficult for the passengers to understand the risks. Fortunately, we have experienced folk up front to do that for us.
We travel often and have a genuine interest in the business. Some of us pay our own tickets and pay for them in Premium, Biz and First. I am not going to start a P. game as to who-has-the-biggest-hours but I have been a pax for 38 years across a rather large selection of aircraft. Having lived in Africa, I have seen Cb activity! All that I have read in this confirms that I would be anxious about continuing a journey folliwng a lightning strike.
From one poster who states that he is a Captain ... "How immature and just the type that no one wants flying on their airline. What are these brilliant types telling the poor passenger seating next to them? Probably scaring them half to death with their half-baked ideas."
Let me know your airline and I shall oblige by not flying on it and save you the trouble of having to impress me with your skills. As to scaring them? I am one of those that spends time reassuring the nervous pax next to me.
I have often had to spend half an hour during taxy/departure to explain all the noises to my neighbour. Tell them how long I have been flying and never an incident, when I would rather be reading my book or looking out of the window. I tell people to turn off their mobile phones when I hear them switch on during the roll out or taxy. I have helped c/c to coax a child out from under the seat so that it could be secured for landing. This took ten minutes, another five and we would have had to hold whilst we continued to get this screaming brat to do as it's mother failed to get it to do. I have called c/c when I spotted a pax that was unrestrained due to a broken belt and the cabin was now insecure. Sorry if that offends your need to be in control, there are more stories like that.
The only one I left recently was a neighbour telling his female that the aircraft was all computer driven and the dangers blah blah (it was a 738) but the flight was too short and view too beautiful to miss.
As to Pilot In Command. Yes, I can see that this is a major issue that I cannot comment on. My nephew is a Captain, so discussing matters with him is as close as I can get. Captains get paid to listen and judge. If that judgement leads to them endangering their a/c, then they have failed.
WHBM - Punctuality Statistics. I think this is the problem, pure and simple. In the UK we have very low levels of Cb activity by comparison to others - such as the USA - and that might make it more difficult for the passengers to understand the risks. Fortunately, we have experienced folk up front to do that for us.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Well "Ace" next time I lose an engine or have some other unpleasant experience I’ll be sure to call you up and solicit your advice. All that knowledge and only 200 hours Wow...I'm impressed. However I fly that much in a little over two months and my 340 even has it's own WX color radar, well actually two of them, but who's counting oh yeah I forgot they overlay. What will they think of next, maybe my F/O’s will even let me use it? lol
By the way Tan, as you intend to 'solicit' my advice and my diary is a bit full at the moment, let me advise that if you lose an engine next time, try asking an engineer to help after you land - they normally find them on the pylon under the wing.
I've got a bit more than 200 hours now (probably a fortnight's systems monitoring for you), must update the profile, but I often find in my job that experience is rather over valued, usually by people who rely on seniority for tenure rather than exceptional skill and continuous improvement.
You must be very senior to earn enough money to own your own Airbus, I can only afford a very small airplane myself.
Last edited by Final 3 Greens; 16th May 2003 at 21:32.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Sunny Sussex
Posts: 778
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just like WNE, I'm also a glider-bothering pax, but I have a tale to tell.
A couple of years ago, a Croatian Paraglider pilot (who shall remain nameless) turned up on his local mountain with a couple of mates, looking for an afternoons soaring fun. It was a nice hot, prefrontal day, lots of Cb's around & due to the temperature, they all lobbed off only in t-shirts and shorts.
before too long, the Croatian started to get a good strong climb. This developed into a really strong climb & before much longer, the vario was screaming as he found himself blasting up through the atmosphere at something like 40 feet per second, 2,400 ft/min if you will.
Realising he was being hoovered into a cunim, and hardly dressed for the occassion, he knew that he risked (among other things) being frozen to death, so with great presence of mind (finally), he deployed his reserve parachute, collapsed his glider & wrapped it around himself for insulation.
Eventually he passed out from Hypoxia & finally came to, under his reserve, drenched and frozen.
The barograph print out from his vario confirmed that he had climbed to 23,000 ft ato & travelled 50km downwind from launch, as a result of one Cb. He was also incredibly lucky not to have died from lightning, hailstones, oxygen starvation etc.
This is a true story and can be checked out at www.xcmag.com (The croation survivor).
I've always had the utmost respect for Wx, you feel it a lot more on an oversized kite bobbing along at 20 kmh.
A couple of years ago, a Croatian Paraglider pilot (who shall remain nameless) turned up on his local mountain with a couple of mates, looking for an afternoons soaring fun. It was a nice hot, prefrontal day, lots of Cb's around & due to the temperature, they all lobbed off only in t-shirts and shorts.
before too long, the Croatian started to get a good strong climb. This developed into a really strong climb & before much longer, the vario was screaming as he found himself blasting up through the atmosphere at something like 40 feet per second, 2,400 ft/min if you will.
Realising he was being hoovered into a cunim, and hardly dressed for the occassion, he knew that he risked (among other things) being frozen to death, so with great presence of mind (finally), he deployed his reserve parachute, collapsed his glider & wrapped it around himself for insulation.
Eventually he passed out from Hypoxia & finally came to, under his reserve, drenched and frozen.
The barograph print out from his vario confirmed that he had climbed to 23,000 ft ato & travelled 50km downwind from launch, as a result of one Cb. He was also incredibly lucky not to have died from lightning, hailstones, oxygen starvation etc.
This is a true story and can be checked out at www.xcmag.com (The croation survivor).
I've always had the utmost respect for Wx, you feel it a lot more on an oversized kite bobbing along at 20 kmh.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Zanzi's Bar
Age: 59
Posts: 233
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Common Sense
Common Sense.
Comes only with experience, like ****ing.
There are so many variations of the sit... I've seen a Macho start to roll, only to stop (not even abort) and advise all us "prudes" to sit it out with a bit of a grating voice (most profies know about this kinda voice).
Common Sense.
Pitty we do not have IT from the start of our careers. Could have saved lives and money... And manuals could have been written in ink, rather than blood...
Comes only with experience, like ****ing.
There are so many variations of the sit... I've seen a Macho start to roll, only to stop (not even abort) and advise all us "prudes" to sit it out with a bit of a grating voice (most profies know about this kinda voice).
Common Sense.
Pitty we do not have IT from the start of our careers. Could have saved lives and money... And manuals could have been written in ink, rather than blood...
Thank you PAXboy for taking the trouble to respond to Captain (???) Tan. I couldn't be bothered. I don't have a problem with his opinion. It's just a great shame that such a magnificent human specimen and skilled pilot can't find a more mature manner with which to express himself. CRM ! I wonder what his F/Os think of him?
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: About to join the A1, UK
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Captain (Tan)tastic - I'd follow him, and I'm sure it's a him, anywhere.
But wait a mo...then again, maybe I wouldn't...coz I've just figured it all out. Tan was the sort of dependable type who, in a previous life, would have selected a 2000 pound, delayed fuse, sub-terranean mud shifter in order to take out a (conscripted) enemy sniper....oh happy days.
Did I use too many commas in all of that?
But wait a mo...then again, maybe I wouldn't...coz I've just figured it all out. Tan was the sort of dependable type who, in a previous life, would have selected a 2000 pound, delayed fuse, sub-terranean mud shifter in order to take out a (conscripted) enemy sniper....oh happy days.
Did I use too many commas in all of that?
Last edited by nurjio; 16th May 2003 at 23:22.
Guest
Posts: n/a
nurjio
No - you don't understand.
The issue is apparently about the Captains authority being undermined by all of us scruffy pax who sit in a cabin with a reinforced door between us and flight deck, engaging in subversive anti aviation activities, such as me explaining to a nervous traveller next to me on Sunday last that it's normal for a 146 to make a funny noise when the flaps are retracted and all is okay.
Of course, in Tan's case, the door is to keep him/her away from us
and has been specially designed for this purpose by the customer servbices and revenue management departments 
No - you don't understand.
The issue is apparently about the Captains authority being undermined by all of us scruffy pax who sit in a cabin with a reinforced door between us and flight deck, engaging in subversive anti aviation activities, such as me explaining to a nervous traveller next to me on Sunday last that it's normal for a 146 to make a funny noise when the flaps are retracted and all is okay.
Of course, in Tan's case, the door is to keep him/her away from us
and has been specially designed for this purpose by the customer servbices and revenue management departments