Problems at Air Scotland?
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From: Hamilton
Problems at Air Scotland?
Has anyone heard anything about problems at Air Scotland.
My niece who works out of GLA just phoned to say there 757 has been impounded at GLA for non payment of fees.
She also has heard of a major fallout with Electra,who provide the planes.
My niece who works out of GLA just phoned to say there 757 has been impounded at GLA for non payment of fees.
She also has heard of a major fallout with Electra,who provide the planes.
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From: Midlands
Contract with Electra terminated - all flights cancelled. Reason unknown.
I believe that Air Scotland are trying to secure the services of Air Holland to operate on their behalf
jethro15
UK and Ireland Airline Fleet Listings
...
I believe that Air Scotland are trying to secure the services of Air Holland to operate on their behalf
jethro15
UK and Ireland Airline Fleet Listings
...
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From: UK
I had also heard of some problems with new crew joining being told that they were all redundant on Thursday.
This could get very interesting as far as the CAA (Economic rather than Safety group) is concerned.
Air Scotland is trading under an agreement with the CAA which means that it does not have to have an ATOL licence. [The licence is backed up by a bond which would be used to refund customers who have paid in advance for flights and to repatriate any customers overseas if the tour operator went bankrupt.] As part of Air Scotland's agreement with the CAA, it is acting as "a ticket provider for Electra Airlines SA", which means that the airline has provided a deed of undertaking to the CAA that it will refund customers' money if Air Scotland ceases.
Now, if Air Scotland has "sacked" Electra Airlines SA as its provider of aircraft and is using Air Holland instead, what has happened to all of the ticket money paid so far to Air Scotland, who under the terms of that agreement, were collecting it on behalf of Electra Airlines? Has Electra disappeared into the setting sun with the dosh? Will Air Holland be guaranteeing all of the customers who have booked before their involvement that their money is safe (if indeed they can) ?
I would watch out for some fireworks in the week ahead once the CAA ATOL department gets involved. If the company is set up along the lines of the Air Scotland/Electra arrangement, you can't simply sack your aircraft provider and go somewhere else. I suspect the ATOL department will be most interested in whose bank account Joe Public's cash is currently sitting.
And PS - worse still - Air Scotland's website is still selling tickets as a ticket provider for Electra Airlines as of now. If I went there and booked a ticket now, this could be construed as fraudulent behaviour if they knew full well that the agreement with Electra was terminated before I bought my ticket. The premise on which I would buy a ticket isn't the premise on which it is being sold - provably so. Oh dear. Largely irrelevant to me though - my Barclaycard number isn't going within a thousand yards of their website.
This could get very interesting as far as the CAA (Economic rather than Safety group) is concerned.
Air Scotland is trading under an agreement with the CAA which means that it does not have to have an ATOL licence. [The licence is backed up by a bond which would be used to refund customers who have paid in advance for flights and to repatriate any customers overseas if the tour operator went bankrupt.] As part of Air Scotland's agreement with the CAA, it is acting as "a ticket provider for Electra Airlines SA", which means that the airline has provided a deed of undertaking to the CAA that it will refund customers' money if Air Scotland ceases.
Now, if Air Scotland has "sacked" Electra Airlines SA as its provider of aircraft and is using Air Holland instead, what has happened to all of the ticket money paid so far to Air Scotland, who under the terms of that agreement, were collecting it on behalf of Electra Airlines? Has Electra disappeared into the setting sun with the dosh? Will Air Holland be guaranteeing all of the customers who have booked before their involvement that their money is safe (if indeed they can) ?
I would watch out for some fireworks in the week ahead once the CAA ATOL department gets involved. If the company is set up along the lines of the Air Scotland/Electra arrangement, you can't simply sack your aircraft provider and go somewhere else. I suspect the ATOL department will be most interested in whose bank account Joe Public's cash is currently sitting.
And PS - worse still - Air Scotland's website is still selling tickets as a ticket provider for Electra Airlines as of now. If I went there and booked a ticket now, this could be construed as fraudulent behaviour if they knew full well that the agreement with Electra was terminated before I bought my ticket. The premise on which I would buy a ticket isn't the premise on which it is being sold - provably so. Oh dear. Largely irrelevant to me though - my Barclaycard number isn't going within a thousand yards of their website.
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From: Scotland
Problems at Air Scotland
Something is afoot with them. Check today's issue of the Scottish Daily Record. There is a half page advert offering two for one flight ex GLA/EDI/ABZ from now until the end of the season. This is being offered in conjunction with the newspaper, so one wonders if the Scottish press know anything of this.
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From: Near VTUU or EGPX
Electra have gone.
Flights being operated by Air Holland, but according to a reliable source, only one 757 in use as opposed to 2 from Electra.
As to what happens from the regulatory side, that remains to be seen..........
Flights being operated by Air Holland, but according to a reliable source, only one 757 in use as opposed to 2 from Electra.
As to what happens from the regulatory side, that remains to be seen..........
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: EDI, LHR, NQY
From tomorrow's Scotsman (29/04/03). Sorry there's no link available yet.
Alastair Jamieson
SCOTLAND’s budget airline, Air Scotland, is being investigated by the Civil Aviation Authority amid uncertainty over the future of its operations.
The “virtual airline”, which sells tickets for aircraft flown by a separate firm, is being reviewed after its owners sacked their Greek supplier.
The carrier, which began offering low-cost flights to Spanish resorts last month, broke off a deal with charter firm Electra Airlines in a row over customer service and now wants to sell seats on behalf of a number of operators, including Air Holland.
The split has left two £30 million aircraft belonging to Electra, which is based in Athens, impounded at Edinburgh and Glasgow in a dispute with BAA Scotland over unpaid landing fees.
Air Scotland, which flies from Edinburgh and Glasgow to Tenerife, Palma and Barcelona, has approached the CAA for permission to trade with more than one charter firm.
But it is understood the authority may now insist Air Scotland becomes a fully bonded tour operator, similar to larger firms such as MyTravel.
The ATOL bond would entitle customers to a full refund directly from the firm if a flight did not go ahead.
Currently, passengers who hold a ticket with Air Scotland have a contract instead with the aircraft owner. Their money is only protected if they pay by credit card.
Dhia Al-Ani, the owner of Air Scotland, an Iraqi-born businessman with 20 years experience in the travel trade, will meet senior fig-
ures from Electra and Air Holland in Glasgow today to discuss future operations.
He said: “All our flights are running normally operated by Air Holland. We took the decision to end our agreement with Electra because they could
not offer punctuality. and we take customer service very seriously.
“We want to sell tickets for more than one carrier and have approached the CAA about this. We know of no investigation, we requested a review.”
A spokesman for the CAA said: “We are looking into the situation surrounding Air Scotland and the issue of ATOL bonding but there is no decision yet.”
Ken McNab, vice-chairman of the Association of British Travel Agents (ABTA) in Scotland, said: “I am pleased that at long last the authorities are looking into this. There needs to be clarity about the relationship between airlines and ticket providers in
order to make it clearer for consumers.”
“We encourage people to book fights with ATOL-bonded tour operators.”
A spokesman for the Air Users Council (AUC) would not comment on Air Scotland until the CAA had announced its findings.
Air Scotland’s rivals yesterday claimed it should be fully ATOL bonded in order to sell tickets for more than one airline.
Tom Dalrymple, chairman of Edinburgh-based tour operator Flyglobespan, which has an ATOL bond, said: “We have calling on the authorities to look into this for some time. If any problems occur it looks bad for the industry as a whole and we feel aggrieved that rivals can exploit a loophole in the law this way.”
BAA Scotland would not elaborate on its dispute with Electra yesterday, although a source said negotiations over the unpaid fess had been delayed because of the Orthodox Greek Easter holidays.
The source added: “We are fairly relaxed about this. Electra do not appear to have any financial difficulty, but they have been caught out by the sudden timing of this. We are expecting to get our money eventually and discussions are amicable.”
Electra, which supplied pilots and cabin crew supervisors to train Air Scotland’s own new recruits, has previously operated for firms including Virgin and British Airways, but also had the conrtact to ferry the Taleban and al-Qaeda prisoners to Guantanamo bay.
Cees van Dormael, president of Air Holland, told The Scotsman he was seeking a long-term deal with Air Scotland. “Our relationship so far has been good, which is also good for passengers in Scotland” he said.
A message on the Air Scotland website yesterday asked all passengers who have tickets with Air Scotland for travel within the next two weeks to contact them, but there was no answer on the phone number given.
The site says: “Due to operational reasons, there may be some minor adjustments to your flight times.
“It is imperative that you contact us on 0141 222 2363 or E-mail us at [email protected] as soon as possible.”
Mr Al-Ani said phone lines had been “very busy”.
SCOTLAND’s budget airline, Air Scotland, is being investigated by the Civil Aviation Authority amid uncertainty over the future of its operations.
The “virtual airline”, which sells tickets for aircraft flown by a separate firm, is being reviewed after its owners sacked their Greek supplier.
The carrier, which began offering low-cost flights to Spanish resorts last month, broke off a deal with charter firm Electra Airlines in a row over customer service and now wants to sell seats on behalf of a number of operators, including Air Holland.
The split has left two £30 million aircraft belonging to Electra, which is based in Athens, impounded at Edinburgh and Glasgow in a dispute with BAA Scotland over unpaid landing fees.
Air Scotland, which flies from Edinburgh and Glasgow to Tenerife, Palma and Barcelona, has approached the CAA for permission to trade with more than one charter firm.
But it is understood the authority may now insist Air Scotland becomes a fully bonded tour operator, similar to larger firms such as MyTravel.
The ATOL bond would entitle customers to a full refund directly from the firm if a flight did not go ahead.
Currently, passengers who hold a ticket with Air Scotland have a contract instead with the aircraft owner. Their money is only protected if they pay by credit card.
Dhia Al-Ani, the owner of Air Scotland, an Iraqi-born businessman with 20 years experience in the travel trade, will meet senior fig-
ures from Electra and Air Holland in Glasgow today to discuss future operations.
He said: “All our flights are running normally operated by Air Holland. We took the decision to end our agreement with Electra because they could
not offer punctuality. and we take customer service very seriously.
“We want to sell tickets for more than one carrier and have approached the CAA about this. We know of no investigation, we requested a review.”
A spokesman for the CAA said: “We are looking into the situation surrounding Air Scotland and the issue of ATOL bonding but there is no decision yet.”
Ken McNab, vice-chairman of the Association of British Travel Agents (ABTA) in Scotland, said: “I am pleased that at long last the authorities are looking into this. There needs to be clarity about the relationship between airlines and ticket providers in
order to make it clearer for consumers.”
“We encourage people to book fights with ATOL-bonded tour operators.”
A spokesman for the Air Users Council (AUC) would not comment on Air Scotland until the CAA had announced its findings.
Air Scotland’s rivals yesterday claimed it should be fully ATOL bonded in order to sell tickets for more than one airline.
Tom Dalrymple, chairman of Edinburgh-based tour operator Flyglobespan, which has an ATOL bond, said: “We have calling on the authorities to look into this for some time. If any problems occur it looks bad for the industry as a whole and we feel aggrieved that rivals can exploit a loophole in the law this way.”
BAA Scotland would not elaborate on its dispute with Electra yesterday, although a source said negotiations over the unpaid fess had been delayed because of the Orthodox Greek Easter holidays.
The source added: “We are fairly relaxed about this. Electra do not appear to have any financial difficulty, but they have been caught out by the sudden timing of this. We are expecting to get our money eventually and discussions are amicable.”
Electra, which supplied pilots and cabin crew supervisors to train Air Scotland’s own new recruits, has previously operated for firms including Virgin and British Airways, but also had the conrtact to ferry the Taleban and al-Qaeda prisoners to Guantanamo bay.
Cees van Dormael, president of Air Holland, told The Scotsman he was seeking a long-term deal with Air Scotland. “Our relationship so far has been good, which is also good for passengers in Scotland” he said.
A message on the Air Scotland website yesterday asked all passengers who have tickets with Air Scotland for travel within the next two weeks to contact them, but there was no answer on the phone number given.
The site says: “Due to operational reasons, there may be some minor adjustments to your flight times.
“It is imperative that you contact us on 0141 222 2363 or E-mail us at [email protected] as soon as possible.”
Mr Al-Ani said phone lines had been “very busy”.
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: _
And still this message displayed proudly on the Air Scotland website:
<< Welcome to Air-Scotland.com the trading name of Electra Airlines( Scotland ) Ltd acting as a "Ticket Provider" for Electra Airlines S.A, the "Operating Airline".>>
Anyone know the phone number for Trading Standards? This has got to be illegal?
<< Welcome to Air-Scotland.com the trading name of Electra Airlines( Scotland ) Ltd acting as a "Ticket Provider" for Electra Airlines S.A, the "Operating Airline".>>
Anyone know the phone number for Trading Standards? This has got to be illegal?
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: EDI, LHR, NQY
According to Al-Ani, Electra is still technically the operator and it is Electra who have arranged the deal with Air Holland because it is obliged to provide alternative transport or a refund under the T&Cs of the passenger booking.
He says Electra name will come off once a proper deal with Air Holland can be put in place.
I'll be watching.
He says Electra name will come off once a proper deal with Air Holland can be put in place.
I'll be watching.
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From: UK
BAA Scotland would not elaborate on its dispute with Electra yesterday, although a source said negotiations over the unpaid fess had been delayed because of the Orthodox Greek Easter holidays.
The source added: “We are fairly relaxed about this. Electra do not appear to have any financial difficulty, but they have been caught out by the sudden timing of this. We are expecting to get our money eventually and discussions are amicable.”
The source added: “We are fairly relaxed about this. Electra do not appear to have any financial difficulty, but they have been caught out by the sudden timing of this. We are expecting to get our money eventually and discussions are amicable.”
Excuse my cynicism, but Orthodox Greek Easter is being blamed again? Christ knows how, but BAA manage to run airports on Shrove Tuesday and Ash Wednesday, so I wouldn't have thought the [not unexpected] fall of Greek Easter ought to completely bazooka an entire airline.
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From: EDI, LHR, NQY
Excuse my cynicism, but Orthodox Greek Easter is being blamed again? Christ knows how, but BAA manage to run airports on Shrove Tuesday and Ash Wednesday, so I wouldn't have thought the [not unexpected] fall of Greek Easter ought to completely bazooka an entire airline.
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From: UK
Lets face it the whole operation has been ramshackle from the start. What we dont need just now is the confidence of the public dented by more fly by night operations. I know for a fact they were telling passengers a few days ago that the aircraft was tech and they were going to bus them to EDI, when the aircraft had been clearly impounded and they were being asked to pay cash for fuel.
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From: Manchester UK
Looks like Air Scotland is heading for the history books.
IMHO these start up airlines fall over themselves to be up and running as soon as possible, frequently starting operations when the foundations are not properly in place. Setting up an airline simply cannot be done in a matter of a few weeks.
I know that if I was looking for a flight from GLA to PMI, for myself and family, I would want to part with my hard earned cash to an ATOL bonded carrier. If things went wrong then I have a guarantee of my money back.
If I understand from previous postings correctly the only "guarantee" currently on offer from Air Scotland is a "promise" from an Iraqi that you'll get your money back and a phone number to call which, funnily enough, nobody answers!!!
The words pole, avoid and barge immediately spring to mind.
IMHO these start up airlines fall over themselves to be up and running as soon as possible, frequently starting operations when the foundations are not properly in place. Setting up an airline simply cannot be done in a matter of a few weeks.
I know that if I was looking for a flight from GLA to PMI, for myself and family, I would want to part with my hard earned cash to an ATOL bonded carrier. If things went wrong then I have a guarantee of my money back.
If I understand from previous postings correctly the only "guarantee" currently on offer from Air Scotland is a "promise" from an Iraqi that you'll get your money back and a phone number to call which, funnily enough, nobody answers!!!
The words pole, avoid and barge immediately spring to mind.
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From: jockland
Any news about the aircrew that where employed by Air Scotland? Will they be flying the Air Holland aircarft along with the dutch crews? Or are they out of work now. The web site states that Air-scotland.com have ambitions to eventually have a UK AOC. Seems odd they didnt do that in the first place.
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From: _
CarltonBrowne the FO - <<Starting an airline using someone else’s aircraft and AOC is not unheard of>> Indeed it’s not, but that’s not what this particular case is about, "Air" Scotland are operating as a resale agent, selling tickets for an airline (was Electra, now is ???)
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From: jockland
I am aware that new companies use other operators aoc and aircraft. Its just strange that air scotland.com have recruited cabin crew, engineers and aircrew to work for them. If they have employed staff why not get a uk aoc and a couple of cheap 757 's laid up in the desert. It just strikes me as a vunrable position for the air acotland employees, and the company to be in, thats all.