Official : British Airways Retires Concorde (merged)
Paxing All Over The World
Speaking as an outsider ... and not wanting to pitch this thread into yet another picking apart of the CDG crash: I thought that the lack of deflectors on the AF undercarriage and missing spacer contributed more than a dash of misfortune to the event?
Rainbow Chaser
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As many of you know I live under the Biggin stack for LHR and these days I am timing my afternoon/early evening walk of hound to coincide with the arrival of Concorde (approx 1740hrs overhead Beckenham) so I can grab my fill of her last days in the air.
I am saddened that the beancounters have won - Concorde is as safe to fly in today as she has ever been (perhaps more so, given the recent "improvements").
All I can say to fellow PPRuNers who know me - if somehow I come into money (Lotto win or unknown rich person names me as sole inheritor) those of you who, like me at the moment alas, cannot afford to buy a Concorde flight will have a flight on the kewlest civilian airframe to grace the skies before 31 October! Dats a promise!!
Just keep fingers/paws crossed that I get a big win on the Lotto - I am the last in my family on the planet so chances of an unexpected bequest are remote to say the least!!
P.S. do you think the general love of this aircraft might not just be due to what she represents from an aviation/engineering perspective but to the fact that she looks similar to every paper dart ever made in classroom/workplace??!!!
I am saddened that the beancounters have won - Concorde is as safe to fly in today as she has ever been (perhaps more so, given the recent "improvements").
All I can say to fellow PPRuNers who know me - if somehow I come into money (Lotto win or unknown rich person names me as sole inheritor) those of you who, like me at the moment alas, cannot afford to buy a Concorde flight will have a flight on the kewlest civilian airframe to grace the skies before 31 October! Dats a promise!!
Just keep fingers/paws crossed that I get a big win on the Lotto - I am the last in my family on the planet so chances of an unexpected bequest are remote to say the least!!
P.S. do you think the general love of this aircraft might not just be due to what she represents from an aviation/engineering perspective but to the fact that she looks similar to every paper dart ever made in classroom/workplace??!!!
What do the .85Mach BA guys do with the ex-Mach 2.0 guy at 40W, when he says over and over;
"Are we there yet?"
"Are we there yet?"
"Are we there yet?"
"Are we there yet?"
"Are we there yet?"
"Are we there yet?"
"Are we there yet?"
"Are we there yet?"
"Are we there yet?"
"Are we there yet?"
"Are we there yet?"
"Are we there yet?"
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this photo reminds me of a very special day in SNN ....... 8th August 2001 ...... ALPHA FOX was doing "touch and goes" and every one turned out to see her including the local Golden Retriever ....... I would imagine you would have a couple of dozen Policemen and Army guys on your back if you tried to take this photo today ......... so much has changed in the world since then ......
I shall miss her .......
I shall miss her .......
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I know we shouldn't but is there any chance of somebody transposing some VS paintwork onto a file photo of a BA/AF Concorde.
I say we shouldn't not only for copyright reasons but to perhaps just to tease ourselves as to what they would look like.....
If somebody doesn't do it on this Forum, I bet its only days before we see it in a tabloid.
Such a shame....
I say we shouldn't not only for copyright reasons but to perhaps just to tease ourselves as to what they would look like.....
If somebody doesn't do it on this Forum, I bet its only days before we see it in a tabloid.
Such a shame....
I don't know how common knowledge this is, but you can feel the "boom" as the Concorde passes you westbound.
We were in an AA 767, As I was recording some video of it passing us overhead (like watching a contrail pass you on the ground), Other crew says "here comes the boom". I thought he was smoking something but in perfectly smooth air came a muffled slight boom. Not much, more like a slight slap one might get with an open hand on a car door, but still readily apparent in the smooth sunshine westbound on the tracks.
It seems somewhat strange for me growing up watching men walk on the moon, Mach 3 spyplanes and Mach 2 airliners, to end up where we are now. the world of aviation is starting to seem like the accounting field.
I'd better brush up on my Chinese so I can understand the next moon landing speech.
We were in an AA 767, As I was recording some video of it passing us overhead (like watching a contrail pass you on the ground), Other crew says "here comes the boom". I thought he was smoking something but in perfectly smooth air came a muffled slight boom. Not much, more like a slight slap one might get with an open hand on a car door, but still readily apparent in the smooth sunshine westbound on the tracks.
It seems somewhat strange for me growing up watching men walk on the moon, Mach 3 spyplanes and Mach 2 airliners, to end up where we are now. the world of aviation is starting to seem like the accounting field.
I'd better brush up on my Chinese so I can understand the next moon landing speech.
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I think that this is just more BA (mis)management ineptitude. After all of the money that has been spent getting Concorde back into the skies, to ground the service now in my opinion borders on commercial suicide. Surely any true full fare passengers would pay more; after all whats the difference between 8k and 12 or 14k for a return ticket for those in the right position?? Why don't BA just give this idea a whirl and see what happens?? Is this the true reason for changing the London departure time to late afternoon - to demonstrate the low load factors and thus prove how astute they are in grounding the service before it's 'too late'. Quick I've got a great idea - sell the Concordes to EasyJet and make a quick profit.......whoops that already happened with Go - maybe not!!
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Sorry if someone has already said this but just a few thoughts of my own. Lets see I believe 1969 man walks on the moon. SR-71, Concorde. 2003. 500 seat subsonic airliners and video conferencing. What a boring world we live in. Someone take me back to the fifties... hehe
Evertonian
....Yes, quite true, but.... How often does a rudder have to go hard over before a certain aircraft's certificates are revoked or a fuel tank explode or an engine shed a fan & cut all the hydraulics? How many tires has the Concorde blown for one fatality?
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jet_noseover
I believe Concorde has a higher record of dropping parts than any DC10. Luckily no one got hit with them shedding parts yet
Have tried to keep out of this debate 'cos it just too upsetting. Many thanks to all those who have expressed support for the best airliner ever built - and some closing thoughts:
It would be great if she could fly on but moving the operation would be impossibly complex for any airline (like transplanting a 200 year old oak tree into a small allotment - the tree looks great, but just try to handle the roots!). Branson may grab huge PR from offering £1 per plane (good for him - its what he does well), but he knows full well it couldn't be done. AF stop flying next month, and without the anglo/french link the project is dead. (The French support of the SST has been magnificent considering their personal loss in summer 2000, we could not and can not do it without them - and nor could anyone else).
BA paid many millions for the Concorde aeroplanes, both at initial purchase and to release them from the contracted tie-in with HMG which meant 85% of operating surplus had to go to the Government as the sponsoring manufacturer. This "BA was given them for a quid" thing makes great headlines and pub-chat, but it just ain't true. They are written off on the balance sheet to £1, but that is just normal accounting practise and doesn't reflect the price paid. No-one, not even Sir Richard - probably not even HMG, could afford to pay BA what they paid for the Concorde, its support and its post-manufacture development.
All good things come to an end. The final 6 months will be ones to remember - she will go out in the style she deserves.
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Gimme an elevon delam on every flight anytime. Its a non-issue.
These DC10 failures weren't happeneing because there were lots of them - they happened because of major design or maintenance failings and they still didn't ground it.
This whole "bits dropping off" Concorde thing is bogus - it was rare (in terms of flying hours, even at the rate Concorde is accumulating flying hours) and had no safety impact.
If losing a piece of aluminium was reason for grounding a type then we'd all be going by boat.
These DC10 failures weren't happeneing because there were lots of them - they happened because of major design or maintenance failings and they still didn't ground it.
This whole "bits dropping off" Concorde thing is bogus - it was rare (in terms of flying hours, even at the rate Concorde is accumulating flying hours) and had no safety impact.
If losing a piece of aluminium was reason for grounding a type then we'd all be going by boat.
Last edited by NW1; 12th Apr 2003 at 21:00.
NW1:
The FAA did ground the DC-10 after the Chicago disaster. I remember it well for I got stuck in LAX. The grounding lasted for about 6 weeks as best as I can recall and no DC-10 was allowed to fly in US airspace until it was ungrounded. That was after they discovered that AA were trying to do engine changes with a forklift truck.
Perhaps I am being over simplistic but I'm not sure that Concorde is statistically any safer than a DC-10. I would guess that at any one time there were 12 Concordes in full time service? There has been one hull loss. So if we extrapolate that ratio to a production run of 380 Concordes, then there could possibly have been 32 hull losses worldwide.
I am just trying to get things into perspective.
The FAA did ground the DC-10 after the Chicago disaster. I remember it well for I got stuck in LAX. The grounding lasted for about 6 weeks as best as I can recall and no DC-10 was allowed to fly in US airspace until it was ungrounded. That was after they discovered that AA were trying to do engine changes with a forklift truck.
Perhaps I am being over simplistic but I'm not sure that Concorde is statistically any safer than a DC-10. I would guess that at any one time there were 12 Concordes in full time service? There has been one hull loss. So if we extrapolate that ratio to a production run of 380 Concordes, then there could possibly have been 32 hull losses worldwide.
I am just trying to get things into perspective.