Ryanair moves goalpost for Buzz. Surprise!!
Good luck to all buzz staff who will be voting today - and even better luck to the GMBU's action next week which might perhaps stop O'Leary trying to behave like some 19th century mill owner and instead face up to 21st century UK employment law....
Good to see how low the fares on British Midland, British Airways and even LH now are on weekend flights to Frankfurt. Real Frankfurt-am-Main, of course - not where-the-hell-is-Hahn. Hahn Airport is located approximately 124 km west of Frankfurt City in the Hunsrueck region. The airport is not connected to the public transportation system (however, it is served by a regular bus shuttle from Frankfurt-Main central station - about 2 hours.....) Try typing 'Hahn airport' into a search engine like Google and you'll find what people really think, not just RyanSpin.
Good to see how low the fares on British Midland, British Airways and even LH now are on weekend flights to Frankfurt. Real Frankfurt-am-Main, of course - not where-the-hell-is-Hahn. Hahn Airport is located approximately 124 km west of Frankfurt City in the Hunsrueck region. The airport is not connected to the public transportation system (however, it is served by a regular bus shuttle from Frankfurt-Main central station - about 2 hours.....) Try typing 'Hahn airport' into a search engine like Google and you'll find what people really think, not just RyanSpin.
Last edited by BEagle; 16th Mar 2003 at 08:44.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Let's hope they make the rignt decision (whatever that may be !)
Its hard when you are put in a position like this, loyalty to work mates, loyalty to family. The bottom line is usually that someone has to put food on the table.
Good luck to all involved.
Its hard when you are put in a position like this, loyalty to work mates, loyalty to family. The bottom line is usually that someone has to put food on the table.
Good luck to all involved.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Manchester UK
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can I just add to what has been previously said about the Buzz staff.
Nobody deserves to be treated and threatened the way these people ( yes Michael they are people ) have. Ryanair are guilty of intimidating and threatening the Buzz staff with redundancy if they make a stand for what they believe is only decent. What ever happened to serious and constructive negotiation.
Good luck to you all at Buzz!! Make a stand!
Nobody deserves to be treated and threatened the way these people ( yes Michael they are people ) have. Ryanair are guilty of intimidating and threatening the Buzz staff with redundancy if they make a stand for what they believe is only decent. What ever happened to serious and constructive negotiation.
Good luck to you all at Buzz!! Make a stand!
Delay? What delay?
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: London, England
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...18/ixhome.html
I guess the goalposts are moved again. Could this be good news?
I guess the goalposts are moved again. Could this be good news?
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Under the Mildenhall landing flightpath
Age: 69
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another classic MOL tactic re the landing charges - give me what I want or i'll take my ball home (remember him advertising last year for 100 or whatever secondhand 737's, getting offered around 1000 of them or something silly like that by plane brokers, then taking that as a stick to beat Boeing over the head with to get the price of new ones down, which he intended to buy in the first place
)
)
Dave T-S:
I am somewhat puzzled by your posting. Surely the deals that MOL has done show shrewd business sense. Are you really suggesting that he should pay whatever price nice Mr Boeing asks for his product?
Do you always pay the original asking price when you buy a house or a car or have you been known to haggle?
I am somewhat puzzled by your posting. Surely the deals that MOL has done show shrewd business sense. Are you really suggesting that he should pay whatever price nice Mr Boeing asks for his product?
Do you always pay the original asking price when you buy a house or a car or have you been known to haggle?
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Under the Mildenhall landing flightpath
Age: 69
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JW411
Sorry, didn't explain myself. It's classic MOL tactics for getting what he wants.
I *do* admire MOL in a business sense for the way he runs his airline, but won't forgive Ryanair for the fact they lost our skis for 12 days outbound and said kiss off when I claimed legitimate expenses for replacement ski hire/phone calls - within the baggage compensation limits. Ryanair are great when it all works, hang you out to dry when it goes wrong.
Unfortunately his ruthless streak in running his airline extends to the way he treats people, luckily I only had £260 at stake, the Buzz staff have their jobs at stake
Sorry, didn't explain myself. It's classic MOL tactics for getting what he wants.
I *do* admire MOL in a business sense for the way he runs his airline, but won't forgive Ryanair for the fact they lost our skis for 12 days outbound and said kiss off when I claimed legitimate expenses for replacement ski hire/phone calls - within the baggage compensation limits. Ryanair are great when it all works, hang you out to dry when it goes wrong.
Unfortunately his ruthless streak in running his airline extends to the way he treats people, luckily I only had £260 at stake, the Buzz staff have their jobs at stake
Dave T-S:
No, you didn't explain yourself. I see from your profile that you are in the insurance business and now you tell us that what you are really pissed off about is that Ryaniar lost your skis for 12 days and failed to pay you handsome compensation.
Surely, as an insurance expert, you read the small print before you went?
The impression that I am getting is that you resent the fact that MOL has outsmarted you (as he has with many others).
Read the small print!
No, you didn't explain yourself. I see from your profile that you are in the insurance business and now you tell us that what you are really pissed off about is that Ryaniar lost your skis for 12 days and failed to pay you handsome compensation.
Surely, as an insurance expert, you read the small print before you went?
The impression that I am getting is that you resent the fact that MOL has outsmarted you (as he has with many others).
Read the small print!
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Under the Mildenhall landing flightpath
Age: 69
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JW411
I don't want to get in a slanging match over this.......
The point is I do not feel MOL plays fair in any aspects of business, certainly not where "doing the right thing" is concerned and particularly not where human beings are concerned. Personally, in the case of our skis, Ryanair had a duty of care to deliver them to our destination. They didn't. We ran up various expenses as a result of this and claimed them back from Ryanair as we were entitled under whichever baggage convention it is as printed on the tickets.
Despite the claim being legitimate, backed up by receipts etc and within the baggage compensation limits, Ryanair wrote back and said tough, not our problem, claim from your holiday insurance. I would have taken the issue to the small claims court but did not have the time to do so (this would have cost me even more).
Ryanair know this so just bluff it out with people so they give up, go away, and claim from their insurance.
As you say I am in the insurance industry (but i'm not sure what this has to do with it) however insurance is not a dustbin for all the ills of the world. If primary responsibility laid with Ryanair to make good our loss, as legislation said they were, then they should do so and not leave it to us to have to claim from our insurance. No wonder everyone pays so much for holiday insurance.........
Anyway, back to the topic, this isn't a rant against Ryanair just because they lost our skis. I live locally, see what happens with Ryanair, have Buzz employees in the family, and think it is a shame as to how Ryanair, or particularly MOL since he is Mr Ryanair, treats people in general.
Buzz was an ideal opportunity for MOL to purchase, get rid of a rival, asset strip, and close down if necessary.
All in my humble opinion, of course
I don't want to get in a slanging match over this.......
The point is I do not feel MOL plays fair in any aspects of business, certainly not where "doing the right thing" is concerned and particularly not where human beings are concerned. Personally, in the case of our skis, Ryanair had a duty of care to deliver them to our destination. They didn't. We ran up various expenses as a result of this and claimed them back from Ryanair as we were entitled under whichever baggage convention it is as printed on the tickets.
Despite the claim being legitimate, backed up by receipts etc and within the baggage compensation limits, Ryanair wrote back and said tough, not our problem, claim from your holiday insurance. I would have taken the issue to the small claims court but did not have the time to do so (this would have cost me even more).
Ryanair know this so just bluff it out with people so they give up, go away, and claim from their insurance.
As you say I am in the insurance industry (but i'm not sure what this has to do with it) however insurance is not a dustbin for all the ills of the world. If primary responsibility laid with Ryanair to make good our loss, as legislation said they were, then they should do so and not leave it to us to have to claim from our insurance. No wonder everyone pays so much for holiday insurance.........
Anyway, back to the topic, this isn't a rant against Ryanair just because they lost our skis. I live locally, see what happens with Ryanair, have Buzz employees in the family, and think it is a shame as to how Ryanair, or particularly MOL since he is Mr Ryanair, treats people in general.
Buzz was an ideal opportunity for MOL to purchase, get rid of a rival, asset strip, and close down if necessary.
All in my humble opinion, of course
I do not work for any of the parties involved but it was my understanding that it was KLM who left Buzz out to dry. Was it not KLM who stated that the pilots could go to the bottom of the Blue list or go to Yellow but, if they went to Yellow, they could not then go back to Blue?
Did KLM not make a statement that they intended to build Buzz up into a 20-aeroplane airline? This must have persuaded a lot of folks to bid for Yellow.
Was it not KLM that then pulled the rug from under them and left them to be picked off by whichever hyena happened to be circling the flock at the time?
Did KLM not make a statement that they intended to build Buzz up into a 20-aeroplane airline? This must have persuaded a lot of folks to bid for Yellow.
Was it not KLM that then pulled the rug from under them and left them to be picked off by whichever hyena happened to be circling the flock at the time?
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 789
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JW411
You are correct in stating that KLM management took buzz to the situation it was in when it was put up for sale. However since Ryanair offered to buy the airline, there has been a total disregard for the law in their treatment of the staff. We have been bullied and intimidatewd into signing new contracts, with the threat of losing our jobs if we don't. This is against the law. Ryanair have decided what they want to do, and have no care if it is illegal or not.
You are correct in stating that KLM management took buzz to the situation it was in when it was put up for sale. However since Ryanair offered to buy the airline, there has been a total disregard for the law in their treatment of the staff. We have been bullied and intimidatewd into signing new contracts, with the threat of losing our jobs if we don't. This is against the law. Ryanair have decided what they want to do, and have no care if it is illegal or not.
A Very Civil Pilot:
If Ryanair are in flagrant breach of TUPE then you should have no difficulty in proving your case. Sadly, there will be a time factor to be considered. In any case, I wish you luck.
On the credit side, at least you are being offered a contract (however bad it may be) to keep you going for a while. That was a luxury that was not on offer to us when Lord King and his merry men did for me and my Laker colleagues.
If Ryanair are in flagrant breach of TUPE then you should have no difficulty in proving your case. Sadly, there will be a time factor to be considered. In any case, I wish you luck.
On the credit side, at least you are being offered a contract (however bad it may be) to keep you going for a while. That was a luxury that was not on offer to us when Lord King and his merry men did for me and my Laker colleagues.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Under the Mildenhall landing flightpath
Age: 69
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A very civil pilot
I think you've said what I was clumsily trying to say.
Unfortunate the hyena circling had a harp on its tail.......
However since Ryanair offered to buy the airline, there has been a total disregard for the law in their treatment of the staff. We have been bullied and intimidatewd into signing new contracts, with the threat of losing our jobs if we don't. This is against the law. Ryanair have decided what they want to do, and have no care if it is illegal or not.
Unfortunate the hyena circling had a harp on its tail.......
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: uk
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BEagle,
90% of the BUZZ pilots who have been offered a contract [on more money by the way]have agreed to joining RYR.If RYR had not bought them out,by KLM's own admission,they would have shut the airline down.Surely RYR have SAVED jobs,not lost them.
This same old argument about HHN is tiresome.Not everyone want's to go to Frankfurt city centre.The surrounding area is a wonderful part of the world.Even if you do wany to go to Frankfurt,the local public transport is scheduled to depart the airport co-inciding with RYR arrivals so you can be in Frankfurt within an hour of boarding the bus.
90% of the BUZZ pilots who have been offered a contract [on more money by the way]have agreed to joining RYR.If RYR had not bought them out,by KLM's own admission,they would have shut the airline down.Surely RYR have SAVED jobs,not lost them.
This same old argument about HHN is tiresome.Not everyone want's to go to Frankfurt city centre.The surrounding area is a wonderful part of the world.Even if you do wany to go to Frankfurt,the local public transport is scheduled to depart the airport co-inciding with RYR arrivals so you can be in Frankfurt within an hour of boarding the bus.
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
If 90% of the pilots have agreed the new contracts, why is it that pilots made "redundant" are being asked to come and sign a contract ?
Perhaps time for a few facts on this thread. KLMuk is transferring pilots to buzzaway, under TUPE regulations, which means all contracts stand. Ryanair is buying 100% of the shares in buzzaway, which is still an independent legal entity, which means all contracts stand until a NEGOTIATED and MUTUALLY AGREED change. Ryanair, who will not have any legal standing with the pilots until 1st April, are illegally imposing new contracts. Among other things:
One year's probation, with one month's notice. Some pilots have been with the company over 30 years.
Lay-off without pay at any time for any reason.
Change of base at any time, anywhere in Europe, at the pilot's expense.
No union recognition.
So much for negotiation. I know people will argue that MOL is saving a dying airline, but by doing so he is tearing up the rule book of employee rights. Watch this very carefully, I'm sure your employers are and you could be next.
Perhaps time for a few facts on this thread. KLMuk is transferring pilots to buzzaway, under TUPE regulations, which means all contracts stand. Ryanair is buying 100% of the shares in buzzaway, which is still an independent legal entity, which means all contracts stand until a NEGOTIATED and MUTUALLY AGREED change. Ryanair, who will not have any legal standing with the pilots until 1st April, are illegally imposing new contracts. Among other things:
One year's probation, with one month's notice. Some pilots have been with the company over 30 years.
Lay-off without pay at any time for any reason.
Change of base at any time, anywhere in Europe, at the pilot's expense.
No union recognition.
So much for negotiation. I know people will argue that MOL is saving a dying airline, but by doing so he is tearing up the rule book of employee rights. Watch this very carefully, I'm sure your employers are and you could be next.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Wherever i get sent
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Having been informed that I was to be made redundant on 31 Mar, I was fortunate enough to be offered another job. I left within a few days to start my new job. I have since received correspondence from KLM Uk stating in failing to give 1 month notice I had breached my contract of employment. I have not received my final wages nearly 3 weeks later. All very interesting.......
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,958
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is bad news for all flight crew -not just those in buzz. If ryanair get away with this then none of our contracts -including pension provision,medical and health agreements are worth the papre they are written on.
In business it sounds like a contract is a contract -but not if you're called ryanair.
In business it sounds like a contract is a contract -but not if you're called ryanair.