Ryanair moves goalpost for Buzz. Surprise!!
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DogyDogtrained - Buzz made a 30 million loss last year and was fast approaching a loss of 30 million this year, it was no where near making a profit. Gone are the days when large national carriers could hike up prices to make badly run airlines make money. KLM were way out of their depth, in a game where they didn't understand the rules.
The two biggest low cost carriers are Bl***dy good at what they do, we should recognise that. Buzz was an accident waiting to happen, our thoughts go out to all those who may lose their jobs.
The two biggest low cost carriers are Bl***dy good at what they do, we should recognise that. Buzz was an accident waiting to happen, our thoughts go out to all those who may lose their jobs.
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Dewdrop,
I may be wrong, but looking from the outside in, Ryanair looks like a classic South-Sea bubble. It has to keep expanding or the concentric circle will end up in a big black hole devouring all around? Evelyn Waughs' novel Decline and Fall is spot on with all that Mill Owner Leary is achieving, I just hope he has read the last chapter! It is obvious that they are good at being cr@p Dewdrop, because no punter expects anything else when they pay ****** all to fly to nowhere. Tough on Buzz employees but if you haven't got the message, all he wants are your slots at STN and the aoc for eastern europe, not you. Sad but very true in the world that MOL lives in.
I may be wrong, but looking from the outside in, Ryanair looks like a classic South-Sea bubble. It has to keep expanding or the concentric circle will end up in a big black hole devouring all around? Evelyn Waughs' novel Decline and Fall is spot on with all that Mill Owner Leary is achieving, I just hope he has read the last chapter! It is obvious that they are good at being cr@p Dewdrop, because no punter expects anything else when they pay ****** all to fly to nowhere. Tough on Buzz employees but if you haven't got the message, all he wants are your slots at STN and the aoc for eastern europe, not you. Sad but very true in the world that MOL lives in.
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Au contraire Freightdoggy, I think the bubble which has burst is that of the US majors and their extremely high labour costs (yes, that includes the bubble of extraordinarily high flightcrew pay at the higher end of the scale). There's one hell of a bubble burst (esp.United) if ever I saw one.
There are plenty of opportunities left out there for the low-co's - the party hasn't even started yet. Wait until the centrals & Baltics join the EU club in 2004 - easyjet & co are going to have a field day. Provided they tread a cautious path, the future looks reasonably bright. The Southwests, Jetblue's and Airtran's are still going strong.
As Rigas Doganis says, the low-cost airline, is the airline of the future. Yes, I'd agree there's also a bit of a low-cost bubble at the moment, and we've already perhaps seen that starting to burst, what with the demise of Go and buzz (and Debonair too, let's not forget...)
Mr O'Leary may not be the popular one amongst some circles, but he can run an airline - whatever anyone says. As for the "from the outside" comments - well, that's just it, isn't it? Most ppruners only see the airline from the outside. The contrast in attitudes & comments between those ppruners (and other commentators) who don't work for the airline, and those that do is rather telling I think (read some of the comments from the FR pilots on pprune; I have to say I'm surprised they even bother to log-on here, given the comments written about them, and from a point of complete ignorance too....)
It's too bad for the buzz employees - appears they've been shafted more than once. I totally sympathise with their predicament. Unfortnately, life's cr*p, and it's especially tough in this industry. One has to move on, and get on with life - that's the reality. This isn't going to help those who now face redundancy, but mouthing off and firing angry shots at Ryanair won't help either. As someone pointed out above, buzz were a sinking ship from the start - what were the alternatives? It was going to go down at some stage - at least not everyone will go down with her now.
Best of luck to all buzz employees - it's a raw deal - but look up, and continue to pursue your dreams!
There are plenty of opportunities left out there for the low-co's - the party hasn't even started yet. Wait until the centrals & Baltics join the EU club in 2004 - easyjet & co are going to have a field day. Provided they tread a cautious path, the future looks reasonably bright. The Southwests, Jetblue's and Airtran's are still going strong.
As Rigas Doganis says, the low-cost airline, is the airline of the future. Yes, I'd agree there's also a bit of a low-cost bubble at the moment, and we've already perhaps seen that starting to burst, what with the demise of Go and buzz (and Debonair too, let's not forget...)
Mr O'Leary may not be the popular one amongst some circles, but he can run an airline - whatever anyone says. As for the "from the outside" comments - well, that's just it, isn't it? Most ppruners only see the airline from the outside. The contrast in attitudes & comments between those ppruners (and other commentators) who don't work for the airline, and those that do is rather telling I think (read some of the comments from the FR pilots on pprune; I have to say I'm surprised they even bother to log-on here, given the comments written about them, and from a point of complete ignorance too....)
It's too bad for the buzz employees - appears they've been shafted more than once. I totally sympathise with their predicament. Unfortnately, life's cr*p, and it's especially tough in this industry. One has to move on, and get on with life - that's the reality. This isn't going to help those who now face redundancy, but mouthing off and firing angry shots at Ryanair won't help either. As someone pointed out above, buzz were a sinking ship from the start - what were the alternatives? It was going to go down at some stage - at least not everyone will go down with her now.
Best of luck to all buzz employees - it's a raw deal - but look up, and continue to pursue your dreams!
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
The Times:
THE holiday plans of more than 100,000 people have been thrown into disarray because Ryanair is tearing up the schedule of Buzz, the rival budget airline that it took over last month. The Irish airline has cancelled all Buzz flights in April and is poised to cut key holiday destinations from the summer timetable.
People who bought cheap tickets in advance will now have to rebook more expensive ones or accept an alternative Ryanair flight to a different airport. Thousands of families, who bought properties in remote parts of France served by the Stansted-based Buzz, such as Bergerac, Limoges, and Dijon, may find their airports deleted from Ryanair’s schedule.
Several of Buzz’s 21 routes, including Paris, Amsterdam and Frankfurt, are likely to be dropped permanently............
A Buzz spokesman said that passengers would receive a refund if their flight was cancelled but claims for compensation would be rejected. KLM, Buzz’s Dutch parent company which sold it for £15 million, advised passengers not to book Buzz flights beyond March until Ryanair had revealed which routes would survive. It described Ryanair’s failure to inform passengers of its intentions as irresponsible.
Only 55,000 people who had booked with Buzz from Bournemouth have been told that their flights are definitely cancelled. A group of these passengers is planning legal action to recover losses on hotel and car hire bookings.Buzz refused to give any details of how many passengers had booked tickets for April, saying that Ryanair now controlled the release of all information.
A Ryanair spokesman said: “You will have to speak to Buzz. We will be announcing details of the reorganisation before the end of February.”
Meanwhile, union leaders representing 570 Buzz employees consulted lawyers yesterday after the Irish airline indicated it would make 400 staff redundant. Michael O’Leary, Ryanair’s chief executive, had promised earlier this month to save 400 jobs at Buzz. But the GMB union said that Ryanair was now planning to remove a quarter of Buzz’s pilots, 80 per cent of the cabin crew and half the ground services staff.
THE holiday plans of more than 100,000 people have been thrown into disarray because Ryanair is tearing up the schedule of Buzz, the rival budget airline that it took over last month. The Irish airline has cancelled all Buzz flights in April and is poised to cut key holiday destinations from the summer timetable.
People who bought cheap tickets in advance will now have to rebook more expensive ones or accept an alternative Ryanair flight to a different airport. Thousands of families, who bought properties in remote parts of France served by the Stansted-based Buzz, such as Bergerac, Limoges, and Dijon, may find their airports deleted from Ryanair’s schedule.
Several of Buzz’s 21 routes, including Paris, Amsterdam and Frankfurt, are likely to be dropped permanently............
A Buzz spokesman said that passengers would receive a refund if their flight was cancelled but claims for compensation would be rejected. KLM, Buzz’s Dutch parent company which sold it for £15 million, advised passengers not to book Buzz flights beyond March until Ryanair had revealed which routes would survive. It described Ryanair’s failure to inform passengers of its intentions as irresponsible.
Only 55,000 people who had booked with Buzz from Bournemouth have been told that their flights are definitely cancelled. A group of these passengers is planning legal action to recover losses on hotel and car hire bookings.Buzz refused to give any details of how many passengers had booked tickets for April, saying that Ryanair now controlled the release of all information.
A Ryanair spokesman said: “You will have to speak to Buzz. We will be announcing details of the reorganisation before the end of February.”
Meanwhile, union leaders representing 570 Buzz employees consulted lawyers yesterday after the Irish airline indicated it would make 400 staff redundant. Michael O’Leary, Ryanair’s chief executive, had promised earlier this month to save 400 jobs at Buzz. But the GMB union said that Ryanair was now planning to remove a quarter of Buzz’s pilots, 80 per cent of the cabin crew and half the ground services staff.
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FROM THE FIRST OF APRIL BUZZ WILL BE FLYING ON RYANAIR ROUTES. THE 146 WILL FLY ON SOME OF THE 200 ROUTES LIKE KIR, LDY, DNR ETC FREEING UP SOME OF THE 200 FOR THE NEW ROUTES AND A THIRD AIRCRAFT FOR PIK. IT IS VERY SAD TO SEE SO MANY PEOPLE LOSE JOBS BUT IF THE BUZZ GUYS AND GIRLS WANT TO MOVE TO THE RYANS THEY CAN. WITH SO MANY NEW AIRCRAFTS ON THE WAY THEY NEED DRIVERS FROM SOMEWHERE.
LETS HOPE THEY DO MOVE OVER AND KEEP THE QUALITY OF LIFE THEY ARE USE TO.
LETS HOPE THEY DO MOVE OVER AND KEEP THE QUALITY OF LIFE THEY ARE USE TO.
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Ryanair cuts Buzz routes and jobs
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2800471.stm
Good luck to all 'ex'-Buzz staff ! Looks like you'll need it !
RYR strike again !
Good luck to all 'ex'-Buzz staff ! Looks like you'll need it !
RYR strike again !
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Go and read everything direct from the horse's mouth at: http://www.ryanair.com/press/2003/fe...en-260203.html
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Rayanair claim that up to 80% of buzz cabin crew are to be made redundant, to be replaced with Ryanair cabin crew, is this legal?
I thought the job had to be redundant not the person.
I thought the job had to be redundant not the person.
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I hope all the boys and girls at the airline formerly known as Go are reading this. I bet your now thanking your lucky stars that Easyjet got there before ryanair.
They may be cut from the same cloth, but easyjet are disorganised rather than ruthless. It just leaves enough room for doubt that they might not really hate us after all......
They may be cut from the same cloth, but easyjet are disorganised rather than ruthless. It just leaves enough room for doubt that they might not really hate us after all......
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Cyrano
I think Ryanair have been somewhat economical with the truth when it comes to their frequency and fare comparisons. According to "Working Lunch" on the BBC yesterday, Buzz were none too happy with the use of winter schedule frequencies in Ryanair's comparison and the fact that some of the Buzz fares quoted were far higher than those currently available.
Can someone answer a few quick questions. Have Ryanair actually paid anything to KLM yet? Do they own Buzz? If not how can they announce all these things in advance of owning the airline. Also do any lawyers out there know how they stand with respect to TUPE - do they not have to respect workers' terms and conditions. As someone pointed out can they make Buzz cabin crew redundant and then use Ryanair crew in their place?
I think Ryanair have been somewhat economical with the truth when it comes to their frequency and fare comparisons. According to "Working Lunch" on the BBC yesterday, Buzz were none too happy with the use of winter schedule frequencies in Ryanair's comparison and the fact that some of the Buzz fares quoted were far higher than those currently available.
Can someone answer a few quick questions. Have Ryanair actually paid anything to KLM yet? Do they own Buzz? If not how can they announce all these things in advance of owning the airline. Also do any lawyers out there know how they stand with respect to TUPE - do they not have to respect workers' terms and conditions. As someone pointed out can they make Buzz cabin crew redundant and then use Ryanair crew in their place?
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I don't know if anyone else will join me in saying that nearly all Ryanair threads become so boringly repeatative. Maybe I am fuelling the point myself by mentioning it. We hear the HHN arguement everytime (boring!) Who cares whether you are not going to use this service? Thousands do, and will come back and use it again. Comments like this are such an insignificant waste of time on a thread.
Back to the point... It is very sad that some employees will be laid off. It seems to me from the constructive information on the thread that allmay have lost jobs if Buzz had continued as they were. Who knows? I hope that anyone having to walk out the door may have the opportunity to walk into Ryanair. They are certaining recruiting on mass at the moment. I know MOL does not understand this language, but it would be a good will gesture on Ryanair's part. Having said that, those concerned may not want to join Ryanair, but at least it will pay the bills for a few months until something better comes along.
Some worrying times ahead... Good luck to all...
Back to the point... It is very sad that some employees will be laid off. It seems to me from the constructive information on the thread that allmay have lost jobs if Buzz had continued as they were. Who knows? I hope that anyone having to walk out the door may have the opportunity to walk into Ryanair. They are certaining recruiting on mass at the moment. I know MOL does not understand this language, but it would be a good will gesture on Ryanair's part. Having said that, those concerned may not want to join Ryanair, but at least it will pay the bills for a few months until something better comes along.
Some worrying times ahead... Good luck to all...
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I agree with Config, this thread was about the situation at buzz, and has become another repetitive debate about FR. I succumbed to the temptation to join in this argument, but I do wish everyone at buzz well.
It seems that people are talking about the low cost sector becoming saturated. MOL himself said he saw only 2 low costs (FR and EZY) surviving, and that was a few years ago. Hopefully Jet2, MYT Lite, bmibaby etc have got their sums right and no more jobs are put at risk.
It seems that people are talking about the low cost sector becoming saturated. MOL himself said he saw only 2 low costs (FR and EZY) surviving, and that was a few years ago. Hopefully Jet2, MYT Lite, bmibaby etc have got their sums right and no more jobs are put at risk.
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Config & Xcess, I totally agree.
Ryanair's style is aggressive; that suits some pple, not others. All airlines will inevitably get some flak - rightly so, as no one's perfect.
Ryanair aren't perfect either, and yes, I think some of the flak they get is deserved; I know the pple at Ryanair read pprune, and hopefully they will go away with some idea of their weaknesses.
On the other hand, a lot of the ranting is unjustified and based on "I have a friend who is a Ryanair pilot, and apparently".......I think you'll forgive me if I say that sounds just a *little* superficial.
It's a tough cop for the buzz folk, but this sort of thing will not go away; the EU is determined on creating a free market in all areas, including aviation. That means more consolidation in this sector is inevitable. I'm afraid we will be seeing more job losses in the future (though perhaps those jobs may well be (in part) re-absorbed by the replacement company).
This industry is extremely capital intensive; it is mighty difficult to make money in the airline business, and margins are crap even at the best of times. Until we have a truly liberalised air mkt, and consolidation has taken its fullest toll, we're still in for quite a ride.
I'm not trying to be a merchant of doom, or depress anyone out there who is thinking of joining the industry, but it pays to face the reality of the situation. I'm not confident all of Britain's low-cost carriers will survive. Ezy and Ryan are riding high, but things can & do go wrong. Let's tread with caution....
Ryanair's style is aggressive; that suits some pple, not others. All airlines will inevitably get some flak - rightly so, as no one's perfect.
Ryanair aren't perfect either, and yes, I think some of the flak they get is deserved; I know the pple at Ryanair read pprune, and hopefully they will go away with some idea of their weaknesses.
On the other hand, a lot of the ranting is unjustified and based on "I have a friend who is a Ryanair pilot, and apparently".......I think you'll forgive me if I say that sounds just a *little* superficial.
It's a tough cop for the buzz folk, but this sort of thing will not go away; the EU is determined on creating a free market in all areas, including aviation. That means more consolidation in this sector is inevitable. I'm afraid we will be seeing more job losses in the future (though perhaps those jobs may well be (in part) re-absorbed by the replacement company).
This industry is extremely capital intensive; it is mighty difficult to make money in the airline business, and margins are crap even at the best of times. Until we have a truly liberalised air mkt, and consolidation has taken its fullest toll, we're still in for quite a ride.
I'm not trying to be a merchant of doom, or depress anyone out there who is thinking of joining the industry, but it pays to face the reality of the situation. I'm not confident all of Britain's low-cost carriers will survive. Ezy and Ryan are riding high, but things can & do go wrong. Let's tread with caution....
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Good luck all buzz staff
I wish all the real workers at buzz the best of luck for the future.
I worked for Air uk/KLM uk/buzz from '97 - '00 and can honestly say that i had the plesure of working with some of the best guys in the business.
All you Muppets in Endevour House are getting good at screwing over your "Dear Colleagues"!
I worked for Air uk/KLM uk/buzz from '97 - '00 and can honestly say that i had the plesure of working with some of the best guys in the business.
All you Muppets in Endevour House are getting good at screwing over your "Dear Colleagues"!
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KLM re-introducing a STN-AMS shuttle is, perhaps not surprisingly, being rumoured.
Firstly they p*$%£d a lot of passengers off when they axed the route and had Buzz operate it. And I mean quality passengers, the Royal and Silver Wings.
Secondly a lot of KLM Uk crew position to AMS with Buzz as they did on the KLM Uk F100 before October. If they went on the Norwhich on London City routes the sheer number of them would make these routes unprofitatble. Some flights the reach double figures. You just cant take that many of the seats away on the Fokker 50's out of City and still have a profitable route.
On MOL plans, he will do what he says he will do. Anyone who things the Unions/Lawyers can stop him is naive. He would not have embarked down this route without having got advice from his legal team that what he is proposing will stand up in a court of law. Its sad for us Buzz employees but thats the way it is. Congrats to these who have already got employment elsewhere.
Firstly they p*$%£d a lot of passengers off when they axed the route and had Buzz operate it. And I mean quality passengers, the Royal and Silver Wings.
Secondly a lot of KLM Uk crew position to AMS with Buzz as they did on the KLM Uk F100 before October. If they went on the Norwhich on London City routes the sheer number of them would make these routes unprofitatble. Some flights the reach double figures. You just cant take that many of the seats away on the Fokker 50's out of City and still have a profitable route.
On MOL plans, he will do what he says he will do. Anyone who things the Unions/Lawyers can stop him is naive. He would not have embarked down this route without having got advice from his legal team that what he is proposing will stand up in a court of law. Its sad for us Buzz employees but thats the way it is. Congrats to these who have already got employment elsewhere.
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Big shame for the decent ground staff, cabin crew and some very good pilots at Buzz.
But at last the fatcats at the top of the most holy seniority list are finally getting a taste of unemployment, which is entirely what they deserve!!... Talk about a wake up call, just you guys remember the ATR people a few years ago who you could not have cared less about when they were facing unemployment, or the shafted direct entry TP captains who all you 'sky god' SFO's refused to fly with if they were promoted to the jet - well, a fokker 100 anyway!
Well, good luck with your unemployment lads and I just hope none of you Fecks end up in my sim because you're humbling is only just beginning....
Failte to Ryanair
But at last the fatcats at the top of the most holy seniority list are finally getting a taste of unemployment, which is entirely what they deserve!!... Talk about a wake up call, just you guys remember the ATR people a few years ago who you could not have cared less about when they were facing unemployment, or the shafted direct entry TP captains who all you 'sky god' SFO's refused to fly with if they were promoted to the jet - well, a fokker 100 anyway!
Well, good luck with your unemployment lads and I just hope none of you Fecks end up in my sim because you're humbling is only just beginning....
Failte to Ryanair
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Well, now there's a balanced attitude; a chip on both shoulders. Yes, I'm facing being out of a job, yes, I'm near the top on the seniority list, but I can proudly look back on some twenty-four years working for buzz and its predecessors. Some of us were probably building this airline by digging Air Anglia's Friendships out of the snow while you were still wearing nappies. Don't worry about the simulator; if you're as bitter as you sound I will be walking out anyway.
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Best of luck to you Herod. I always looked forward to flying with Air UK / KLMUK / Buzz, something I couldn't say about Ryanair.
You guys deserved better.
You guys deserved better.