The "In Charge"
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W.K. & I.P. and others:
I used to work in the Latino part of the world. That is where El Commondante still ruled. Things were done properly amongst the crew. (management still rubbish, but down route my suite was well received).
I remember a story from a fellow captain who was on a down-route turnround, in a Latino country.
"After quite a while the pax had not yet arrived. He queried this with the No.1,(who was anglo-scaxon) and who told him she was still waiting for the cabin to be cleaned, and some other nicities to be provided. She had requested this from the agent some while ago, (but not informed the captain of this need.)
Captain summons the agent, and asks what is happening. He says that he is waiting for the No.1 to start boarding, but she has refused. Qeh??
The Captain then re-orders the same as the No.1 had previously. Miraculously things now start to happen in a flash. He then briefs the No. 1 on keeping him informed, and that in some parts of the world El Commondante is still the boss."
Sometimes things are so simple if you understand the local rules. If the salaries were better I'd be back there. Friendly and well intergrated because everybody understood the way it works. Go with the flow and no axe to grind.
KISS!
P.S.
A second thought: Why is it that all my CRM courses, and Flight Safety courses, in 9 airlines, have been given by only cabin staff with no flight deck input? Could that be a root cause of this attitude, and does it stem from a lack of interest in Flight Ops managment? ('nother topic?)
I used to work in the Latino part of the world. That is where El Commondante still ruled. Things were done properly amongst the crew. (management still rubbish, but down route my suite was well received).
I remember a story from a fellow captain who was on a down-route turnround, in a Latino country.
"After quite a while the pax had not yet arrived. He queried this with the No.1,(who was anglo-scaxon) and who told him she was still waiting for the cabin to be cleaned, and some other nicities to be provided. She had requested this from the agent some while ago, (but not informed the captain of this need.)
Captain summons the agent, and asks what is happening. He says that he is waiting for the No.1 to start boarding, but she has refused. Qeh??
The Captain then re-orders the same as the No.1 had previously. Miraculously things now start to happen in a flash. He then briefs the No. 1 on keeping him informed, and that in some parts of the world El Commondante is still the boss."
Sometimes things are so simple if you understand the local rules. If the salaries were better I'd be back there. Friendly and well intergrated because everybody understood the way it works. Go with the flow and no axe to grind.
KISS!
P.S.
A second thought: Why is it that all my CRM courses, and Flight Safety courses, in 9 airlines, have been given by only cabin staff with no flight deck input? Could that be a root cause of this attitude, and does it stem from a lack of interest in Flight Ops managment? ('nother topic?)
Uncle Pete
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We used to have Training Captains and Cabin Crew Trainers jointly in charge of joint CRM exercises in the classroom and in the mock-up.
Seem to remember the training was well received by both sides of the flight deck door and not just a "tick in the box to keep in legal" day out.
MP
Seem to remember the training was well received by both sides of the flight deck door and not just a "tick in the box to keep in legal" day out.
MP
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At BA C.R.M. has been brought more to the fore. I think there will always be problems in the major carriers because CC is more of career there and so people stay longer and so have been around the block etc. So you end up with In-Charge Crew Memebers in their 50's/60's who have been with the company since they were at school. They are then put on board with a Captain and an F.O. with possibly not even a years service (D.E.P. for example) who is earning half as much as them. Not that these things SHOULD make a difference and make the chain of command hazzy but unfortunately THEY DO.
A lot of it comes down to personality as well. A new-nice-guy-not-wanting-to-cause-any-trouble captain faced with a twice his age I know-every-rule-in-the-book-and-I'm NO.2 on the seniority list ok? In-charge crew member might find it a difficult day indeed.
People invariably like power and will push it to the limit sometimes just to see how far they can go before they are challenged. If you let them go further than they can without first giving them permission to do so then problems and arguements can ensue. In the same vien if you have ultimate power waving it around like a big stick is a recipie for disaster waiting to happen to.
The whole on-board dynamic is facinating as no 2 days are the same, but it's what makes the job interesting. Just a shame it's ruined sometimes by the odd idiot that can be on either side of the Flight Deck Door.
A lot of it comes down to personality as well. A new-nice-guy-not-wanting-to-cause-any-trouble captain faced with a twice his age I know-every-rule-in-the-book-and-I'm NO.2 on the seniority list ok? In-charge crew member might find it a difficult day indeed.
People invariably like power and will push it to the limit sometimes just to see how far they can go before they are challenged. If you let them go further than they can without first giving them permission to do so then problems and arguements can ensue. In the same vien if you have ultimate power waving it around like a big stick is a recipie for disaster waiting to happen to.
The whole on-board dynamic is facinating as no 2 days are the same, but it's what makes the job interesting. Just a shame it's ruined sometimes by the odd idiot that can be on either side of the Flight Deck Door.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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Flaps,
While I appreciate your poll is of the snapshot/straw variety, I think it's quite worrying that 45% of those who replied do not appreciate that the buck stops in the Left Seat. It's a pity we can't see results from each company individually.
Regards,
HF
While I appreciate your poll is of the snapshot/straw variety, I think it's quite worrying that 45% of those who replied do not appreciate that the buck stops in the Left Seat. It's a pity we can't see results from each company individually.
Regards,
HF
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Some good points there, shadowpurser.
What is a brand new DEP F/O to do when confronted with a #1 who has been round the block a few times and knows the ropes?
Fairly simple.
It is exactly the same as a brand new 2nd. Lt. straight out of Sandhurst who is given a troop with a 45-year old very experienced sergeant who knows which way is up. The inexperienced subaltern who doesn't use his troop sergeant and the experience available there won't last long. Yes, the officer has to make the decisions, but should consult.
Simple answer? CRM.
The airline that doesn't train their most senior cabin crew to offer their advice, observations and experience in a non-confrontational manner is risking flight safety. Similarly, they should train their most junior pilots to listen and use the experience available from "down the back". It is to be hoped that they will remember that training by the time they become grizzled old captains and will still use all facilities available to them.
No, I disagree. Not a difficult day at all. Offload them. End of problem. If he doesn't want to cause any trouble, that is the way to do it. Anything else will cause a whole heap of it. For example, they'll have in-flight fires and not even bother to tell you. 
What is a brand new DEP F/O to do when confronted with a #1 who has been round the block a few times and knows the ropes?
Fairly simple.
It is exactly the same as a brand new 2nd. Lt. straight out of Sandhurst who is given a troop with a 45-year old very experienced sergeant who knows which way is up. The inexperienced subaltern who doesn't use his troop sergeant and the experience available there won't last long. Yes, the officer has to make the decisions, but should consult.
Simple answer? CRM.
The airline that doesn't train their most senior cabin crew to offer their advice, observations and experience in a non-confrontational manner is risking flight safety. Similarly, they should train their most junior pilots to listen and use the experience available from "down the back". It is to be hoped that they will remember that training by the time they become grizzled old captains and will still use all facilities available to them.
A new-nice-guy-not-wanting-to-cause-any-trouble captain faced with a twice his age I know-every-rule-in-the-book-and-I'm NO.2 on the seniority list ok? In-charge crew member might find it a difficult day indeed.
Uncle Pete
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What it boils down to is that when it's all going well the "in charge" take the glory.
When it goes wrong guess who the "in charge" blame?
The flight deck.
Been there, had it happen to me. Good game!!!!
MP
When it goes wrong guess who the "in charge" blame?
The flight deck.
Been there, had it happen to me. Good game!!!!
MP
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Sorry MP that this is how you feel but you must have flown with a couple of idiots,however I feel you're ganeralising here.
I am a CSD with BA and have always fully understood the chain of command,even if it's the F/O's first day,its still the CAPTAIN then the F/O .
I am not above my station and feel that mine is a somewhat grand title for 'head of teapots!!'
.
When it goes well in the cabin we may get a pat on the back for our efforts and when it goes wrong in the cabin I'm always prepared to take the flak,thats what I'm there for.
If we land 20 minutes early when pax leave the A/C some will give you a thank you but next time you're 20 minutes late that same person may have a little dig as they leave.
We are all a team and some people from BOTH sides are not so good with CRM but it is a little unfair that many postings on this subject make the 'in charge' out to be 'glory hunters'or 'power crazy'. Again the fact is its a few giving the majority a bad name.
Next time you have a problem with CSD or Purser Hitler, can a suggest a little bit of 'old fashioned' CRM...get them on their own
and in no uncertain terms put them right.
As for the idiot not reporting the BCF's used on a fire it should have been goodbye.
To all my 'in charge' colleagues please go with the chain of command as it's there for all our sakes and if you don't like it, then with a lot of hard work and long intensive training you may climb the ladder.....not me I'll stick to my teapots,I'm happy there .
Finally the CSD's conversation to the Purser may have been misunderstood and saying the buck stops with them for certain cabin service problems.Personally I have had great back up on a couple of occasions from my Flight Crew colleagues with difficult passenger situations and was grateful for it.
CRM is a two way thing and so is respect on an aircraft,so lets not lose sight of that.Please don't tar us all with the same brush,
I don't with Flight Crew on the strength of one bad one.
Off now to polish me pots for me punters.
NJR.
I am a CSD with BA and have always fully understood the chain of command,even if it's the F/O's first day,its still the CAPTAIN then the F/O .
I am not above my station and feel that mine is a somewhat grand title for 'head of teapots!!'
.When it goes well in the cabin we may get a pat on the back for our efforts and when it goes wrong in the cabin I'm always prepared to take the flak,thats what I'm there for.
If we land 20 minutes early when pax leave the A/C some will give you a thank you but next time you're 20 minutes late that same person may have a little dig as they leave.
We are all a team and some people from BOTH sides are not so good with CRM but it is a little unfair that many postings on this subject make the 'in charge' out to be 'glory hunters'or 'power crazy'. Again the fact is its a few giving the majority a bad name.
Next time you have a problem with CSD or Purser Hitler, can a suggest a little bit of 'old fashioned' CRM...get them on their own
and in no uncertain terms put them right.
As for the idiot not reporting the BCF's used on a fire it should have been goodbye.
To all my 'in charge' colleagues please go with the chain of command as it's there for all our sakes and if you don't like it, then with a lot of hard work and long intensive training you may climb the ladder.....not me I'll stick to my teapots,I'm happy there
.Finally the CSD's conversation to the Purser may have been misunderstood and saying the buck stops with them for certain cabin service problems.Personally I have had great back up on a couple of occasions from my Flight Crew colleagues with difficult passenger situations and was grateful for it.
CRM is a two way thing and so is respect on an aircraft,so lets not lose sight of that.Please don't tar us all with the same brush,
I don't with Flight Crew on the strength of one bad one.
Off now to polish me pots for me punters.
NJR.
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I have read with interest the thread so far and am disappointed with the "them" and "us" attitude that seems to permeate it.
I am an "In Charge" crew member and like many of my colleagues who have posted know well the chain of command and I follow it every time. However, aren't we all supposed to be a team, working together for a common goal?
The locked door policy is bad enough and appears to be a throwback to the "good old days" when it was most definitely a "them" and "us" attitude. I believe times have changed and the majority of flight crew and cabin crew that I work with really work together to ensure a smooth operation.
Communication and mutual respect is the key.
To the guys and girls with stripes, at the pointy end: I understand all the time and effort you put in to achieve your position, not to mention the cost, and respect it immensely. Notwithstanding that, respect only goes so far, the rest has to be earned, no matter what position. You can be the best pilot in the world, but if you have a God Syndrome what respect are you going to get?
To the "In Charge" crew out there: Again I have utmost respect for the time and effort it took to get there, BUT work with the team. You are not an extra, you are not a nicety. You have a role to fulfill so do the job and lead by example. Speak to the flight crew as you would to the cabin crew, don't treat them differently, you are all on the same side.
I am sure everyone has a story to tell about certain instances where we found it hard to work with individuals, whether they are flight crew or cabin crew - In Charge or otherwise. Please remember this is human nature.......we cannot get along with everyone all the time, what we can do is have a professional working environment that is easy to work in and most of the time a lot of fun.
To HugMonster:
Why does it have to be the most senior cabin crew that have good advice to offer? Good management is being able to recognise good advice and act upon it no matter who it is from, and credit them for it. Similarly, why should we only train our most junior pilots to listen to it? I have been flying for nearly 11 years and almost every day, I learn something new. I am damn good at my job and pride myself on it. There have been occasions whereby the Captain (30 years experience) has asked my opinion and organised different procedures to accommodate.
We should all be able to work together, all of the time, unfortunately we all have bad days. It is even worse when we all have them at the same time !!
Please don't tar all of us with the same brush.
I am an "In Charge" crew member and like many of my colleagues who have posted know well the chain of command and I follow it every time. However, aren't we all supposed to be a team, working together for a common goal?
The locked door policy is bad enough and appears to be a throwback to the "good old days" when it was most definitely a "them" and "us" attitude. I believe times have changed and the majority of flight crew and cabin crew that I work with really work together to ensure a smooth operation.
Communication and mutual respect is the key.
To the guys and girls with stripes, at the pointy end: I understand all the time and effort you put in to achieve your position, not to mention the cost, and respect it immensely. Notwithstanding that, respect only goes so far, the rest has to be earned, no matter what position. You can be the best pilot in the world, but if you have a God Syndrome what respect are you going to get?
To the "In Charge" crew out there: Again I have utmost respect for the time and effort it took to get there, BUT work with the team. You are not an extra, you are not a nicety. You have a role to fulfill so do the job and lead by example. Speak to the flight crew as you would to the cabin crew, don't treat them differently, you are all on the same side.
I am sure everyone has a story to tell about certain instances where we found it hard to work with individuals, whether they are flight crew or cabin crew - In Charge or otherwise. Please remember this is human nature.......we cannot get along with everyone all the time, what we can do is have a professional working environment that is easy to work in and most of the time a lot of fun.
To HugMonster:
The airline that doesn't train their most senior cabin crew to offer their advice, observations and experience in a non-confrontational manner is risking flight safety. Similarly, they should train their most junior pilots to listen and use the experience available from "down the back".
We should all be able to work together, all of the time, unfortunately we all have bad days. It is even worse when we all have them at the same time !!
Please don't tar all of us with the same brush.
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All I intended by my post - I would have thought it was fairly clear - was that training pilots to use the experience available from down the back should start right at the beginning of their time with the airline.
And I am sure that you will recognise that the experience and advice of someone who has been flying for thirty years in the teapots department is worth a little more than someone who left school six months ago. Furthermore, in a problem situation you can't take the time to talk to absolutely everyone sitting on the aircraft to see if they have any ideas. Hence a captain will generally talk to the #1. If your most junior colleagues have any input, I would suggest they feed it to the flight deck via the #1.
And I am sure that you will recognise that the experience and advice of someone who has been flying for thirty years in the teapots department is worth a little more than someone who left school six months ago. Furthermore, in a problem situation you can't take the time to talk to absolutely everyone sitting on the aircraft to see if they have any ideas. Hence a captain will generally talk to the #1. If your most junior colleagues have any input, I would suggest they feed it to the flight deck via the #1.
Uncle Pete
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nojacketsrequired
I agree with everything you say.
My comments in my last post referred solely to my experiences on the B707 in the early 1980s.I have not come across this divide on any other fleets.
I value a healthy rapport with the cabin crew as those of you have suffered my tea-making will know.
Keep up the good work
MP
I agree with everything you say.
My comments in my last post referred solely to my experiences on the B707 in the early 1980s.I have not come across this divide on any other fleets.
I value a healthy rapport with the cabin crew as those of you have suffered my tea-making will know.
Keep up the good work
MP
Reminds me of a bad joke in a book 'The Funny Side of Flying' by Alan Branson where he quotes an airline Ops manual as saying The position of the senior stewardess (it was a long time ago) is immedieatly under the Captain!
On a more serious note: I am not yet flying for an airline, I mainly fly parachutists, but I treat it in much the same way. I am in command of the aircraft, the buck basically stops with me. However, I do not have 5000 parachute jumps behind, unlike the jump master. If the weather is marginal and they ask me if we can go, I will say "I am happy to fly the aeroplane. It is up to you chaps to decide if is safe to jump." Obviously I pass on weather reports from the drop-zone, and do everything I can to insure they have the right information before they go. Although I am responisble for the flight, I am not going to second guess a highly experinced jumper as to suitable conditions for jumping, as long as it is safe and legal to fly. (I should add that as we mainly deal with tandam parachutist there is almost always a very experinced jumper on board.)
On a more serious note: I am not yet flying for an airline, I mainly fly parachutists, but I treat it in much the same way. I am in command of the aircraft, the buck basically stops with me. However, I do not have 5000 parachute jumps behind, unlike the jump master. If the weather is marginal and they ask me if we can go, I will say "I am happy to fly the aeroplane. It is up to you chaps to decide if is safe to jump." Obviously I pass on weather reports from the drop-zone, and do everything I can to insure they have the right information before they go. Although I am responisble for the flight, I am not going to second guess a highly experinced jumper as to suitable conditions for jumping, as long as it is safe and legal to fly. (I should add that as we mainly deal with tandam parachutist there is almost always a very experinced jumper on board.)
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Hugmonster
I hope resorting to offloading would be a very last resort if confrontation had occured already.
The situation I was picturing was one of someone new to the left hand seat or the company and so not wanting to make a "name" for themselves etc etc from the off by doing something like that.
If someone is acting wrongly as if they are in charge then surely a word to one side is the way to go, highlighting where things are going wrong and how you'd like things to proceed before radioing ops for another crew member?
Maybe offloading would be the only way to go but not until every other avenue of resolving the situation had been resolved. If not that captain could find themselves in a certain amount of trouble.
The situation I was picturing was one of someone new to the left hand seat or the company and so not wanting to make a "name" for themselves etc etc from the off by doing something like that.
If someone is acting wrongly as if they are in charge then surely a word to one side is the way to go, highlighting where things are going wrong and how you'd like things to proceed before radioing ops for another crew member?
Maybe offloading would be the only way to go but not until every other avenue of resolving the situation had been resolved. If not that captain could find themselves in a certain amount of trouble.
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I'm only a frequent flyer so I hope I'm not trespassing by commenting on this thread.
The results of Flaps40's poll didn't come as a surprise to me, but that's only because I've occasionally ventured into the Cabin Crew Forum - not a forum I'd recommend passengers to read - and the attitudes frequently displayed there are reflected in the votes cast.
I suspect a similar poll of your customers would have produced a figure 99% and 1% 'Don't know'.
It seems to me there's something very very wrong with a system in which an absurdly low percentage of CC regard the Captain as in charge of the aircraft and, IMHO, the fault must lie with management. As an earlier contributor said, the title 'CSD' given to the senior cabin attendant by BA is absurd. Director??
I understand the virtues of CRM between the pilots, and between the various grades of cabin crew but, as a passeger, I can't understand where it comes into relations between cabin atendants and flight crew. Surely if there's a problem the cabin supervisor can't resolve, the problem is passed to the flight crew, and ultimately to the Captain if the F/O can't deal with it?
Apart possibly from ludicrous political correctnes, I can't see any motive for management giving the cabin crew an over-inflated sense of importance other than to drive a wedge between them and the flight crew - divide and rule. As an outsider, it seems to me that is much more likely to produce an 'us and them' attitude than the long established chain of command system where everyone knew where they stood.
BTW, although people have suggested the problem is confined to BA, and Virgin's 'IFS' is a more sensible job description, I'm not sure the issues described in earlier posts are BA only. A few weeks ago, I was on a Virgin flight which involved a change of crew. The outgoing IFS announced that 'John Smith' and 'Tracy Whatever' would be taking us the rest of our way to London. Ah, I thought naively, a lady F/O. Not a bit of it, it turned out she was introducing the oncoming Captain and IFS!
I don't think Captain's are blame-free in the context of this discussion. Not many years ago, we had announcements from the flight deck intermittently throughout a flight. Now, very often, all we get from the flight deck is a pre/post take-off announcement telling us where we're going and how long it will take, followed by 8-10 hours of silence, then another announcement telling us we'll be landing in 45 minutes and the weather at our destination.
I'm not a fool who thinks pilots sit there doing nothing for the duration of the flight but I don't believe the workload is so high that there's no time (for example) for one of them to point out that we have a clear view of some famous city or geograpical landmark. Before anyone tells me, I do appreciate that not everyone will be able to see the sight, particularly in a wide-body jet, but that's no reason everyone should be deprived of the opportunity. I've never yet spoken to a single passenger who doesn't appreciate such announcements when the flight crew take the trouble.
I've probably trodden on enough toes by now, so I'd better stop but, to be completely honest, I find this modern trend of making CC out to be more than they are very irritating. I know they have a safety role if we have to force land/ditch in the ocean, and our safety is of paramount importance etc etc, but 99.9% of the time their function is to serve food and drink. Why pretend otherwise?
The results of Flaps40's poll didn't come as a surprise to me, but that's only because I've occasionally ventured into the Cabin Crew Forum - not a forum I'd recommend passengers to read - and the attitudes frequently displayed there are reflected in the votes cast.
I suspect a similar poll of your customers would have produced a figure 99% and 1% 'Don't know'.
It seems to me there's something very very wrong with a system in which an absurdly low percentage of CC regard the Captain as in charge of the aircraft and, IMHO, the fault must lie with management. As an earlier contributor said, the title 'CSD' given to the senior cabin attendant by BA is absurd. Director??
I understand the virtues of CRM between the pilots, and between the various grades of cabin crew but, as a passeger, I can't understand where it comes into relations between cabin atendants and flight crew. Surely if there's a problem the cabin supervisor can't resolve, the problem is passed to the flight crew, and ultimately to the Captain if the F/O can't deal with it?
Apart possibly from ludicrous political correctnes, I can't see any motive for management giving the cabin crew an over-inflated sense of importance other than to drive a wedge between them and the flight crew - divide and rule. As an outsider, it seems to me that is much more likely to produce an 'us and them' attitude than the long established chain of command system where everyone knew where they stood.
BTW, although people have suggested the problem is confined to BA, and Virgin's 'IFS' is a more sensible job description, I'm not sure the issues described in earlier posts are BA only. A few weeks ago, I was on a Virgin flight which involved a change of crew. The outgoing IFS announced that 'John Smith' and 'Tracy Whatever' would be taking us the rest of our way to London. Ah, I thought naively, a lady F/O. Not a bit of it, it turned out she was introducing the oncoming Captain and IFS!
I don't think Captain's are blame-free in the context of this discussion. Not many years ago, we had announcements from the flight deck intermittently throughout a flight. Now, very often, all we get from the flight deck is a pre/post take-off announcement telling us where we're going and how long it will take, followed by 8-10 hours of silence, then another announcement telling us we'll be landing in 45 minutes and the weather at our destination.
I'm not a fool who thinks pilots sit there doing nothing for the duration of the flight but I don't believe the workload is so high that there's no time (for example) for one of them to point out that we have a clear view of some famous city or geograpical landmark. Before anyone tells me, I do appreciate that not everyone will be able to see the sight, particularly in a wide-body jet, but that's no reason everyone should be deprived of the opportunity. I've never yet spoken to a single passenger who doesn't appreciate such announcements when the flight crew take the trouble.
I've probably trodden on enough toes by now, so I'd better stop but, to be completely honest, I find this modern trend of making CC out to be more than they are very irritating. I know they have a safety role if we have to force land/ditch in the ocean, and our safety is of paramount importance etc etc, but 99.9% of the time their function is to serve food and drink. Why pretend otherwise?
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nomdeplume - you have just hit the nail on the head.
The only way for it to work is a properly structured chain of command. And if you look at the airlines that are the most successful that is exactly how it is.
In BA they have created an attitude within the CC that is truly amazing (as a generalization i may add). And this is exactly why people i know do not like to travel BA unless they have to - what a pity...
The only way for it to work is a properly structured chain of command. And if you look at the airlines that are the most successful that is exactly how it is.
In BA they have created an attitude within the CC that is truly amazing (as a generalization i may add). And this is exactly why people i know do not like to travel BA unless they have to - what a pity...
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As Cabin Crew, this thread is developing my understanding of how a stag must feel in hunting season - an attractive target to anyone with a gun! Form a queue, take a shot whydontcha?
I suppose there must be CSD's (or whatever title) that have this problem attitude, but I haven't met any. I understand the command structure and so does everybody else I know: I haven't met any pilots who complain of this being an issue, except in this forum. Reality is more boring than this thread might suggest.
That makes about 3 CSD's on this thread saying broadly similar things - isn't it just possible that we may be more or less correct? Just a thought.
I suppose there must be CSD's (or whatever title) that have this problem attitude, but I haven't met any. I understand the command structure and so does everybody else I know: I haven't met any pilots who complain of this being an issue, except in this forum. Reality is more boring than this thread might suggest.
That makes about 3 CSD's on this thread saying broadly similar things - isn't it just possible that we may be more or less correct? Just a thought.
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Tightslot,very well put and it does seem the season for 'culling'
the 'in charge' crew member.
In reply to Numdeplume(you made many good points), what's in a name?,I do think it a grand title for the position but regardless of the title it is an important position in more than one way.
As an 'in charge' your pre-flight briefing sets the tone for the flight ahead and hopefully leads to good team work,what you expect of the crew and what then can expect of you,and that you're there to support them in their duties.
You are there for your cabin crew and very importantly there to keep a regular check on the well being of your flight crew throughout the flight and keeping them informed of any problems
that may be happening or about to in the cabin area.
Leadership skills more importantly come into play on a more serious note in any type of emergency when we have to look after or even save our passengers,a well motivated crew is vital and will react in a positive manner.
The 'in charge',CSD,Purser or whatever else we're called(answers on a postage stamp please!!) will play a key role in communication between The Captain,First Officer ,the crew and the passengers in an emergency.
Nexeuk,I don't know if you've just been unlucky with the crews you've had and if you have,I apologise you find them or perceive them like this or you have an axe to grind for some reason but as said before please do not tar us all with the same brush.They are again the MINORITY.
I enjoy my job and take a pride in my work and hopefully this is passed onto the crew on my flights and from the many positive comments I get from passengers this is the case and they unlike the many people you know will fly BA again.
The point about the crew ignoring the pilots when they get on a bus down route I find hard to believe,did you witness this yourself?.I do point out that on long haul for some reason on many occasions the cabin crew are on the bus before our pilots and the pilots end up sitting at the front,but I never witnessed the rudeness that you discribe.
Finally a message to any colleagues who who do act the 'high and mighty' please don't and stop giving a bad impression to our passengers, also you know the chain of command so respect it .
It is there for many reasons but never forget the real one....
SAFETY.
I never generalise and know for every one awkward passenger there are four hundred good ones and likewise with our Flight Crew colleagues.
These are not nice times for any of us at the moment so can I please ask this game of 'bait the crew' to stop as I feel we don't deserve it.
Thanks and happy flying to us all.
NJR.
the 'in charge' crew member.
In reply to Numdeplume(you made many good points), what's in a name?,I do think it a grand title for the position but regardless of the title it is an important position in more than one way.
As an 'in charge' your pre-flight briefing sets the tone for the flight ahead and hopefully leads to good team work,what you expect of the crew and what then can expect of you,and that you're there to support them in their duties.
You are there for your cabin crew and very importantly there to keep a regular check on the well being of your flight crew throughout the flight and keeping them informed of any problems
that may be happening or about to in the cabin area.
Leadership skills more importantly come into play on a more serious note in any type of emergency when we have to look after or even save our passengers,a well motivated crew is vital and will react in a positive manner.
The 'in charge',CSD,Purser or whatever else we're called(answers on a postage stamp please!!) will play a key role in communication between The Captain,First Officer ,the crew and the passengers in an emergency.
Nexeuk,I don't know if you've just been unlucky with the crews you've had and if you have,I apologise you find them or perceive them like this or you have an axe to grind for some reason but as said before please do not tar us all with the same brush.They are again the MINORITY.
I enjoy my job and take a pride in my work and hopefully this is passed onto the crew on my flights and from the many positive comments I get from passengers this is the case and they unlike the many people you know will fly BA again.
The point about the crew ignoring the pilots when they get on a bus down route I find hard to believe,did you witness this yourself?.I do point out that on long haul for some reason on many occasions the cabin crew are on the bus before our pilots and the pilots end up sitting at the front,but I never witnessed the rudeness that you discribe.
Finally a message to any colleagues who who do act the 'high and mighty' please don't and stop giving a bad impression to our passengers, also you know the chain of command so respect it .
It is there for many reasons but never forget the real one....
SAFETY.
I never generalise and know for every one awkward passenger there are four hundred good ones and likewise with our Flight Crew colleagues.
These are not nice times for any of us at the moment so can I please ask this game of 'bait the crew' to stop as I feel we don't deserve it.
Thanks and happy flying to us all.
NJR.
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nojacketsrequired - thanks for your very reasoned reply, and i agree with you there are many good crew. However, with no axe to grind, the minority happens to be quite a large minority, enough to spoil it on too many an occassion - and that i'm afraid is the view of many.
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Nomdeplume
Nomdeplume - Just a quick one on the subject of inflight PA's from the flight deck.
To some extent they have become superfluous due to the provision of a moving map display, (on most carriers), available to each passenger.
More significantly however is the fact that when the flight deck give a PA it will interrupt the sound track of any films or any audio channel, that in itself can be irritating enough for the passengers but on many airlines PAs have to be given in more than one language. A simple PA by me to the effect that we are just passing the Taj Mahal can lead to a five minute disruption of a film and all the sun shades on one side being lifted causing people to be woken up or their screen to become difficult to see.
In many airlines these days only the most necessary PAs from the flight deck are encouraged.
On a general note, in thirty six years of flying I think I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I had a serious clash with the CSD/IFS etc. that, to me, illustrates the size of the "problem".
To some extent they have become superfluous due to the provision of a moving map display, (on most carriers), available to each passenger.
More significantly however is the fact that when the flight deck give a PA it will interrupt the sound track of any films or any audio channel, that in itself can be irritating enough for the passengers but on many airlines PAs have to be given in more than one language. A simple PA by me to the effect that we are just passing the Taj Mahal can lead to a five minute disruption of a film and all the sun shades on one side being lifted causing people to be woken up or their screen to become difficult to see.
In many airlines these days only the most necessary PAs from the flight deck are encouraged.
On a general note, in thirty six years of flying I think I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I had a serious clash with the CSD/IFS etc. that, to me, illustrates the size of the "problem".
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I couldn't agree with you more on that point BlueEagle, I spend a lot of time in the air as a passenger, and cannot wait for the PAs to be finished, so that I can settle down and watch a movie or sleep undisturbed - a lot of airlines have done surveys on this and found that is what majority of the passengers want. On the point of all these "fancy" titles for the cabin staff, what a load of poppycock. In the cockpit you have a Captain and a FO, plain and simple - why not keep it as simple in the back of the aircraft? Can you imagine the fancy names we could come up for the Captain?