£55,000 for builders at Heathrow!!!!!
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Iavn Taclue
You seem to think that just because you have a pilots licence you should have a job and be well paid for it as a right , well in a capitalist system that wont happen.
When Debonair whent bust the supply of pilots on the market went up drasticly and the demand dropped and so a lot of pilots were looking for work , some of us are multi -skilled and so me (and the big red tool box ) went off and found a place that had a demand for the skills that I have and paid the morgage.
What I did not do was sit around harping on about the fact that I had not got a flying job and getting resentful about the people who had found work.
As for your kind sugestion that I might like to work building T5 if push came to shove then yes I would because it sure beats the dole but right now the left seat in this Boeing fitts just fine !.
When Debonair whent bust the supply of pilots on the market went up drasticly and the demand dropped and so a lot of pilots were looking for work , some of us are multi -skilled and so me (and the big red tool box ) went off and found a place that had a demand for the skills that I have and paid the morgage.
What I did not do was sit around harping on about the fact that I had not got a flying job and getting resentful about the people who had found work.
As for your kind sugestion that I might like to work building T5 if push came to shove then yes I would because it sure beats the dole but right now the left seat in this Boeing fitts just fine !.
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Perhaps this is what Oxford have in mind for their Airline Partnership Programme! It's certainly the closest most of their graduates will get to an airliner this year
If only I had trained as abrickie instead
If only I had trained as abrickie instead
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Bah humbug
Everyone on this website justifiably rushes to cry 'media hype" when an article comes up in the papers alleging all pilots are on 100 grand or whatever massive fictional salary, but as soon as you read the same thing about builders its all of a sudden taken as gospel and an excuse to start up yet another chorus of moaning. I'll bet it's the same reporter that pulled those figures from thin air, just like they do with us lot when they write about us.
I'll take it all with a grain of salt, until I see these builders arriving down my local in their new Porsche Cayennes, anyway
Everyone on this website justifiably rushes to cry 'media hype" when an article comes up in the papers alleging all pilots are on 100 grand or whatever massive fictional salary, but as soon as you read the same thing about builders its all of a sudden taken as gospel and an excuse to start up yet another chorus of moaning. I'll bet it's the same reporter that pulled those figures from thin air, just like they do with us lot when they write about us.
I'll take it all with a grain of salt, until I see these builders arriving down my local in their new Porsche Cayennes, anyway
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Being a builder and wannabe (never-to-be) pilot, it's quite comical some of the posts I've just read through! Unskilled labour, you may wonder, really means you have no specific trade, but can fill in on a number of duties. Have any of you ever tried to fit a mezzanine floor in before, on a base floor that would make the snad dunes of the Sahara look even? Having to jump in and out of you r fork truck all the time while you try and level the top beams off? It is a truelly hard days work building, let me tell you, (and yes, I'm aware you all know that, it just feels good saying it!
) But, I agree, 55 large is a tremendous amount of moolah, but I can guarantee they wont all be on that, no where near, and the ones that are will have a lot of experience in what they're doing I would've thought, and will without doubt be putting in 18 hour days. (Laugh will ya, I've done many a month, 6 days a week, on those exact hours, and yeah, you get tired!!
) You go home and literally feel sick from the disorientation you suffer from sleep deprievation. Not fun at all. But to compare your salaries to a builders, I don't know? I know I'd rather be doing your job, although I know it's enormously stressful and you too have to put the hours in. Both jobs, in their own ways, have the draw-backs! But basically, the top dollar will be being paid so the project reaches completion on or before time. The amount of maoney that will be lost for every day over isn't worth thinking about!!! Hope you understand I'm not having a go at any one here, just airing MY views as I see them. Happy flying! Oh, and by the way, if you do want your roof fixed......
) But, I agree, 55 large is a tremendous amount of moolah, but I can guarantee they wont all be on that, no where near, and the ones that are will have a lot of experience in what they're doing I would've thought, and will without doubt be putting in 18 hour days. (Laugh will ya, I've done many a month, 6 days a week, on those exact hours, and yeah, you get tired!! ) You go home and literally feel sick from the disorientation you suffer from sleep deprievation. Not fun at all. But to compare your salaries to a builders, I don't know? I know I'd rather be doing your job, although I know it's enormously stressful and you too have to put the hours in. Both jobs, in their own ways, have the draw-backs! But basically, the top dollar will be being paid so the project reaches completion on or before time. The amount of maoney that will be lost for every day over isn't worth thinking about!!! Hope you understand I'm not having a go at any one here, just airing MY views as I see them. Happy flying! Oh, and by the way, if you do want your roof fixed......
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If you read the small print in the T5 contract there are very heavy financial penalties if it is not completed on time/price.
The "highly skilled/paid" workforce is being recruited on the basis of a no strike deal.
The "highly skilled/paid" workforce is being recruited on the basis of a no strike deal.
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Shame on all of the pro pilots who have risen to this media tosh.Luke and Lump jockey(both wannabes I think) have hit the nail on the head.
Perhaps us pilots have allowed our 100K + salaries and Porshe driving lifestyles cloud our judgement.After all we only work a maximum of 900 hours a year so I suppose we've got plenty time to read tosh like this in the broadsheets.
Perhaps us pilots have allowed our 100K + salaries and Porshe driving lifestyles cloud our judgement.After all we only work a maximum of 900 hours a year so I suppose we've got plenty time to read tosh like this in the broadsheets.
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SKY9
You hit the nail on the head. I was quite amused the other day watching "Airline" to see the same bloke [who not long back got up at silly o`clock to watch the first flight land at his local airport, LPL i think] a training skipper, describe himself as a "bus driver".
To demeanor our profession so much is very sad and the reason why we are all considered by the movers and shakers as a bunch of sad gits who will drive planes EVEN FOR NOTHING. We do not win our selves any respect either by being represented by that bunch of sad bungling [ and i have proof] leaches called BALPA who litterally are living off your backs!!!.
So don`t whine at 55k for builders, but do as they do and adopt their very simple logic , become inflexible and say F*** off more often.
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A and C I have to agree with you. Unfortunately so long as there is an ever unending supply of people who are prepared to mortgage themselves to the hilt just to get a basic licence and then carry on to pay for type ratings and take any job for sometimes hardly any salary then one can only expect salaries and conditions to go just one way only. When you add in those who have the cash up front then that merely makes the situation worse.
From what I can see it is pretty foolish to go ahead on one's own these days as certain training organisations have a vested interest in convincing future Employers that only those who go through their so called rigorous application procedures and tests are going to any good for the job,whereas those of us who have been around a few years know full well that is not necessarily the case.
Anyone out there thinking of going it alone think long and hard as you could well regret it.
Homers Simpsons I cannot believe you are a Pilot.
THe Media always hit on the salary of the highest paid pilot in a company and bandy that around as the 'Norm' which makes the Public think we are all highly paid.
Likewise Log book hours are always quoted which again as any Pilot knows bares no resemblance to actual hours on duty at the behest of our Employers. They divide say 900 hours by say 46 weeks and get 19.5 hours per week and all think we are underworked!! Unfortunately it would seem the accountants in Airlines these days have the same misguided ideas.
From what I can see it is pretty foolish to go ahead on one's own these days as certain training organisations have a vested interest in convincing future Employers that only those who go through their so called rigorous application procedures and tests are going to any good for the job,whereas those of us who have been around a few years know full well that is not necessarily the case.
Anyone out there thinking of going it alone think long and hard as you could well regret it.
Homers Simpsons I cannot believe you are a Pilot.
THe Media always hit on the salary of the highest paid pilot in a company and bandy that around as the 'Norm' which makes the Public think we are all highly paid.
Likewise Log book hours are always quoted which again as any Pilot knows bares no resemblance to actual hours on duty at the behest of our Employers. They divide say 900 hours by say 46 weeks and get 19.5 hours per week and all think we are underworked!! Unfortunately it would seem the accountants in Airlines these days have the same misguided ideas.
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Pay scales
The media also routinely report that Independent Financial Advisers (which is what I am) earn 'around £100K a year'. This is, of course, complete B*******. Only 5% of IFAs earn that sort of money. I earn a fraction of that.
As a matter of interest, I was talking to a client his morning who employs HGV drivers. For a top-qualified HGV driver (with full heavy 'artic' rating) the going rate (for a 70 hour week, this is), is around £20,000 per annum. He says that most HGV drivers are knackered most of the time. Makes you think, doesn't it. When one of those massive things goes thundering past, with the driver nodding at the wheel. One twitch of the steering wheel....splat. Crush you liike a bug.
As a matter of interest, I was talking to a client his morning who employs HGV drivers. For a top-qualified HGV driver (with full heavy 'artic' rating) the going rate (for a 70 hour week, this is), is around £20,000 per annum. He says that most HGV drivers are knackered most of the time. Makes you think, doesn't it. When one of those massive things goes thundering past, with the driver nodding at the wheel. One twitch of the steering wheel....splat. Crush you liike a bug.
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Percy Dragon I cannot believe what you say re HGV Drivers as I was reading somewhere there was a shortage of HGV drivers and when that happens salaries go up hence salaries of Pilots go down owing to there being no shortage ,in fact quite the reverse.
If your client is only paying £20000 pa for his drivers I am surprised he has any!!! I am told there is a shorfall of 50000 drivers coming as not many want the job ,being away from home ,working nights and weekends etc etc Bit like Pilots really!!! so why are so many mortgaging themselves up to the hilt to become one??
If your client is only paying £20000 pa for his drivers I am surprised he has any!!! I am told there is a shorfall of 50000 drivers coming as not many want the job ,being away from home ,working nights and weekends etc etc Bit like Pilots really!!! so why are so many mortgaging themselves up to the hilt to become one??
What you are witnessing is the consequence of the social engineering that has been going on over the past three decades or so. The apprenticeship scheme, which worked successfully for at least a couple of thousand years, has been abandoned and everyone gets to have a stab at a "degree" instead.
The pool of skilled tradesman is rapidly drying up, and they now spend their time trying to supervise the work of less-than-skilled sub-contractors. You get what you pay for, and the going rate is rpobably considered a bargain.
The pool of skilled tradesman is rapidly drying up, and they now spend their time trying to supervise the work of less-than-skilled sub-contractors. You get what you pay for, and the going rate is rpobably considered a bargain.
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Good point millerscourt.
One would assume that the fact that there is a reported shortage should indeed result in the pay for HGV drivers going up.
But I am just reporting the fact that they currently earn around £20,000 pa for a 70 hour week, or so I am reliably informed.
When you think about it, there are a number of good points about the job, when compared to a lot of the ****ty other jobs on offer. You're out there on your own. No boss breathing down your neck. You also don't have to be Einstein to do the job. Good chance of picking up a tasty hitchhiker or two...
Also, £20,000 a year is actually a pretty good salary. Puts you well up in the top half of the working population. Up there with the Firefighters.
Might go and do it myself.....
One would assume that the fact that there is a reported shortage should indeed result in the pay for HGV drivers going up.
But I am just reporting the fact that they currently earn around £20,000 pa for a 70 hour week, or so I am reliably informed.
When you think about it, there are a number of good points about the job, when compared to a lot of the ****ty other jobs on offer. You're out there on your own. No boss breathing down your neck. You also don't have to be Einstein to do the job. Good chance of picking up a tasty hitchhiker or two...
Also, £20,000 a year is actually a pretty good salary. Puts you well up in the top half of the working population. Up there with the Firefighters.
Might go and do it myself.....
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If £55k is giving you a fit, certain construction projects are paying £40-50/Hr for a guarenteed 40/hr week - depending on commissioning dates can run upto 60-70 hr weeks.
As stated before its just a shortage of skilled labour, not just due to the apprenticships scheme being abandoned but also several companies laid off very qualified staff a few years ago, many of which left the industry altogether - either retiring or going into another profession - you cant get staff for love nor money in some cases.
Good luck to them is what I say, make hay whilst the sun shines as in a couple of years time it could go full circle.
As stated before its just a shortage of skilled labour, not just due to the apprenticships scheme being abandoned but also several companies laid off very qualified staff a few years ago, many of which left the industry altogether - either retiring or going into another profession - you cant get staff for love nor money in some cases.
Good luck to them is what I say, make hay whilst the sun shines as in a couple of years time it could go full circle.
