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Lies, Damn Lies and Official Collusion. (EI)

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Lies, Damn Lies and Official Collusion. (EI)

Old 28th Dec 2002, 13:19
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Lies, Damn Lies and Official Collusion. (EI)

Here is an article oublished by BALPA in their "Industrial Update" pamphlet recently. Author, Trevor Philips. It is entitled "The Irish Joke", but is far from funny.


"This particular story is not funny at all really. What is more it is not recounted with the usual xenophobic glee that accompanies such tales. However, are you aware of the invidious position we find our colleagues facing who fly for Ryanair? No, well let me fill you in.

Ryanair claim that the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA) - the Irish equivalent of the CAA - granted them absolution from the first of April 2002, from the rolling month by month count of annual flying hours towards the 900 hour limitation. They claim that the IAA, following the passage of the year 2001/2002 when a count of both the rolling year and a fixed year (1 Apr to 31 Mar) had to be maintained, have released them to count solely the fixed year. Thus permitting pilots to be reborn, in terms of annual hours, from the 1st April 2002.

As flying became busier in July and August, pilots found themselves broaching 900 hours on the rolling count. When they queried whether this was O.k.? Ryanair stated again that they had been absolved by the IAA from the rolling requirement and the pilots should not worry.

Those pilots of a more inquiring nature, at some personal risk, (allegedly Ryanair does not welcome any activity that questions their diktat), contacted the IAA for advice. The advice they received was very disquieting. They were told that no absolution from the rolling monthly count had been granted.

Indeed I myself was told, on inquiring in the same vein, that were a pilot to break this limit and an incident occur, the IAA would in the first instance, take action against the individual pilot, irrespective of the advice he/she had been given by the airline.

This left Ryanair pilots in an impossible position. Apart from creating the additional stress of trying to decide if they wanted to risk unemployment or the courts, it left them nowhere else to turn. BALPA asked the IAA to clarify the position with Ryanair, but they appeared simply to sit on their hands. Graham Fowler, BALPA's Deputy General Secretary wrote a letter to the head of the IAA. This was followed-up by two reminders before finally a reply was received. The reply appeared to state that there is no material difference in the effect of a rolling count verses a fixed annual count, thus (and this is implied) why are we creating all the fuss?

All I can say is NO MATERIAL DIFFERENCE! If you have leave, time off or are sick with little flying in April, May, and June and fly 100 hours per 28 days for the remainder of the months up to 31St March of the next year and then continue flying hard in the next year's April, May and June, because your leave that year is later in September say, you can certainly run up 1200 or more hours within the rolling year.
What a joke - ha bloody ha!"
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Old 28th Dec 2002, 14:41
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It doesn't paint the IAA in a very good light does it? No doubt they will provide a dispensation in March to allow Ryanair pilots to exceed the 900hr rolling annual limit (that only applies in April) so as to maintain the programme.

It does pose a question as to the insurance cover. Have Ryaniar informed their Insurance Brokers that they are exceeding the monthly 900hr limit and provided them with a copy of the dispensation - I wonder?
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Old 29th Dec 2002, 12:21
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Yes it certainly looks as though Ryanair are taking the Mick!!
It's amazing how a bit of Irish blarney will pull the wool over most people's eyes some of the time. I notice that our own brave boys at the CAA are remarkably quiet on this one. Not to mention the BAA (who run STN, Ryanair's main base here).
Their bubble will burst and no mistake.
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Old 29th Dec 2002, 13:27
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Question

Hello CAA,journalists,Uk government why aren,t you reacting to this? you,ve been informed repeatedly over the years of the lack of regulation of this pirate carrier.Ireland truly is the "Liberia of Europe" paying lip service only to proper regulatory oversight and adherance to good practice.Strange that the journalistic proffession doesn,t pick up on this ?? I wonder why??.
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Old 29th Dec 2002, 15:06
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Journalists pick up on these stories but they get spiked because editors can't afford to upset their advertisers. So you won't see many exposées on any of the big spenders on newspaper or television advertising.

Having said that the Sunday Times has been quite brave with a couple of articles on the Irish low frills carrier.
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Old 30th Dec 2002, 13:34
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How on Earth has the BBC failed to pick up on this? They do not have advertisers to take into account. Must be something to do with cost saving to fund their more ridiculous digital channels by reducing news budget, so they now only regurgitate press releases. Have any of the other unions contacted the IAA? Has teh IAA told JAA what is going on?

What does Ryanair gain from this? Surely it simply means that all their pilots who have been busy reach their 900 hours at the same time. A crisis in rostering is inevitable. Do they think that then the IAA will give them dispensation to break the 900 hours at will in March?
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Old 30th Dec 2002, 15:04
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More xenophobic bile from the anti-fr brigade methinks!
Why all the abuse of Ryanair and IAA when the Germans
approve 1000hrs and a calender year rather than rolling limit
limit? The US also permits calender rather than rolling year
limit. So why should a UK system be the 'gospel'?
As one who works the FR system with fixed rosters, guaranteed
days off,4 weeks notice, this system produces the bes rosters
in the business. Nuff said and f*** the begrudgers!
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Old 30th Dec 2002, 19:05
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ILUV2FLY

Don't bother to read an article before slagging it off, will you? The article only discussed the merits of the system with reference to the IAA's comment, nothing to do with "anti-fr". It did so with good justification, and if there is any point to an hour limit a good case was made that this should be a rolling limit. You have not answered that argument at all. The fact that others use a flawed system makes it no less flawed.

The bit that was "anti-fr" was the bit that pointed out that Ryanair management seems to have lied to its employees, in a way that Ryanair gets the most work out of them. The only people risking anything are the pilots, who as pointed out have nowhere to turn - FR wants them to work over the 900-hour rolling limit, the IAA said they will prosecute any pilot who as done so if involved in an incident (not, you note, the airline) and when the union steps in they wait a long time for a completely inadequate piece of bluster from the IAA, that is nothing like true.

You have answered a complaint that you assumed people were making, and singularly failed to answer the one they were making.
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Old 30th Dec 2002, 19:30
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Send Clowns

I would ignore iluvtofly, his "profile" is a 35 year old civil engineer, so Ryaniar is either on his FS, or it is his first job.
Watch his threads in a couple of years and he will be moaning and wingeing like the rest of us.

Meanwhile he has to learn the difference between obeying his boss and obeying the law (although in the case of the IAA they seem to make it up as they go along, depending on who had their arm up their back last).
The 2 are not always the same and some cannot decide which is more important.
I've seen it all before.
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Old 30th Dec 2002, 20:11
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I would suspect that the IAA get a lot of thier income from a certain company that has the majority share of the irish commercial aviation market and this has probably been pointed out to them from a certain source. This would possibly make them less effective, than say a CAA of a country that has a large number of operators, at enforcing it's rules and reg. on such an operator. Nothing will change untill external pressure is put on the IAA to ensure that the operation licence holder of commercial aviation operators adhere to the rules. From what i have seen, those at the top of the IAA don't have the courage to enforce.... allegedley


......brown paper packages tied up with string, these are a few of my favorite things !......... ( Julie Andrews, sound of music )
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Old 31st Dec 2002, 00:59
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As an operator in IAA land , I can confirm that the regulations are as strict as those imposed in other JAA countries. As the UK is not yet JAA compliant, they can still( as thay always did) produce their own rules.
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Old 31st Dec 2002, 03:03
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Agreed B222, but what are those rules? Are they safe? Those are the issues here, you have addressed neither.
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Old 31st Dec 2002, 09:14
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B222

If an operator can force a pilot to exceed the mandatory limits without apparently receiving proper clearance from the licencing authority, then I would say that the JAA regulations are not enforced as strictly as they should be.
And if a pilot who fears his licence (and therefore livelihood) is at risk is also prevented from speaking out through fear of his job, then that operator and the authority controlling it are falling way short of the professional standards that JAA is supposed to stand for !
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Old 31st Dec 2002, 19:45
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IAA FTL

Anyone who flies under the auspices of the IAA knows exactly how thick their document on FTL is. Just do not ask them what the operational status of that document is. How many operators' schemes comply exactly with that document? How does it compare to the like of UKCAA CAP 371?

Just wait till the Simpson document gets pushed through and then wait and see what happens...
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Old 31st Dec 2002, 20:22
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Minuteman, aren't you supposed to be down the pub twenty minutes ago?
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Old 31st Dec 2002, 22:49
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The IAA has never had a mind of it's own.

Sitting on the fence is a skill that comes naturally to a lot of IAA folk especially after a career in the Department of "De Fence."

It has always been the downtown office of EI and more recently FR after their chief pilot headed the place up.

Asking the IAA to act on an issue causes them a great problem as they would have to recognise that a problem exists.

Some things NEVER change.
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Old 1st Jan 2003, 02:18
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I'm beginning to believe this sad little republic is uniquely blighted by a combination of nepotism, back scratching, feather bedding and plain old corruption....with a large helping of ineptitude and incompetence thrown in for good measure.

In every walk of professional life in this country you see how appointments are made, not on the grounds of ability, but rather by the above mentioned standards.

It's sickening, and it operates through the whole political and business system in this country. Including aviation.

Is it only in Ireland that we see this kind of crap?
Well, there's always Africa to compare with.
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Old 1st Jan 2003, 23:00
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Max

Tut ..tut.....

.there's on;y 3 1/2 million of you in what you describe as your sad little country. You know what the answer is ........you set up a TRIBOONAL.... so all the fat cat Dublin gombeen men can earn a bit more to invest in Celtic Football Club or Man United FC or if thery're not up to that a helicopter leasing company or may be even off shore Irish Oil .

Deo gratias and keep your mouth shut !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 2nd Jan 2003, 13:15
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Hold on guys, are you saying FR pilots have exceeded their 900 hours, or are you saying they could ? There is a big difference !
 
Old 2nd Jan 2003, 14:11
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There is some real rubbish being discussed in this forum. Most of it offensive.

Black-ops are out in feeble force again - jaysus lads - please try a new tack...

There have been numerous earlier threads on these points - please review. They are rather tired and boring.

The IAA wrote to Ryanair clarifying the issue. The letter is available for all to see - in Ryanair HQ. They have the dispensation on this historical issue. It is now a dead issue.

QED - And yes 900 hrs is below the German and US requirements but then the Brits are a reluctantly reasonable negotiating crew - you have to threaten something first or prove that you are actually a separte sovereign nation (a concept that doesn't sit well). Or re-state the point repeatedly before it gets through the icily cold idiocy and sense of supremacy.

YOU NO LONGER HAVE AN EMPIRE - SORRY CHAPS...

Goodbye Little Englanders - Have you flown through Heathrow as a pax recently - talk about third world...

Don't get me started on the traffic congestion on the road systems but hey it seems to the same in UK Airspace. (Poor old NATS).

Stop bashing other countries particularly your ex-colonies.
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