Delta FO Alledgedly Tests Drunk at ORF
Was the other (or any) pilot not with him when the security guy noticed a suspiscious smell? If not, he was certainly on his own.
But if another pilot was present, he/she should have told the guy to immediately leave the airport and head home or to a hotel, then tell Crew Scheduling that he was sick. This can help save such a fool's career and allow the person to declare himself an alcoholic, and get into treatment, assuming that he had not consumed cough medicine etc. There have been cases in the US where careers were lost because the people did not admit to having a drinking problem.
If you ever become suspiscious of this condition, keep them away from any airplane. This should be the first priority, and it helps prevent media from learning about it and also publishing an airline's name.
If the allegations are true, and if there had been past indications of a problem, did nobody contact the Delta MEC's special staff, which can decide to intervene?
But if another pilot was present, he/she should have told the guy to immediately leave the airport and head home or to a hotel, then tell Crew Scheduling that he was sick. This can help save such a fool's career and allow the person to declare himself an alcoholic, and get into treatment, assuming that he had not consumed cough medicine etc. There have been cases in the US where careers were lost because the people did not admit to having a drinking problem.
If you ever become suspiscious of this condition, keep them away from any airplane. This should be the first priority, and it helps prevent media from learning about it and also publishing an airline's name.
If the allegations are true, and if there had been past indications of a problem, did nobody contact the Delta MEC's special staff, which can decide to intervene?
Union Goon
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Charleyvictor.
What you saw demonstrated there I suspect was a demonstration of Alchohol in someone's mouth. I believe a blood Alchohol test can be followed up with a blood test which woud not elevate so quickly.
Furthermore a blood alcohol level of 2.0 would most likely be fatal.
Cheers
Wino
What you saw demonstrated there I suspect was a demonstration of Alchohol in someone's mouth. I believe a blood Alchohol test can be followed up with a blood test which woud not elevate so quickly.
Furthermore a blood alcohol level of 2.0 would most likely be fatal.
Cheers
Wino
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Boil it down, and at the end you have the issue of judgement.
Pilots at work are expected by the authorities, the flying public, and their peers in aviation to have and to exercise especially careful common sense, discipline, and judgement in the conduct of their duties.
Lacking that, one just doesn't belong in the game.
Pilots at work are expected by the authorities, the flying public, and their peers in aviation to have and to exercise especially careful common sense, discipline, and judgement in the conduct of their duties.
Lacking that, one just doesn't belong in the game.
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Arcniz: some irony for you: Delta is notorious for a "personality profile" screening test administered during the hiring process. It has dashed the hopes of many who had already passed the intelligence and aviation tests (myself included).
So, whatever DAL Flight Ops may say about this guy - he passed their precious phsychological test....
So, whatever DAL Flight Ops may say about this guy - he passed their precious phsychological test....
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For most airline pilots, 3 (three!) regulations apply simultaneously:
1. The government/state rule (most commonly 0.04% and 8 hours)
2. gov and/or company rules ("...not under the influence of...")
3. Company rules - e.g. 10 hours, and between 12 and 10 hours only one glass of beer/wine.
Company rules usually have a legal liability since they are written down as a FOM!
happy landings
1. The government/state rule (most commonly 0.04% and 8 hours)
2. gov and/or company rules ("...not under the influence of...")
3. Company rules - e.g. 10 hours, and between 12 and 10 hours only one glass of beer/wine.
Company rules usually have a legal liability since they are written down as a FOM!
happy landings
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Yo britannia66,
Check http://www.jaa.nl/section1/jars_toc.html to see the JAR regulations...
g'day!
By the way, disregard my name in this case folks!
Check http://www.jaa.nl/section1/jars_toc.html to see the JAR regulations...
g'day!
By the way, disregard my name in this case folks!
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Huck:
They may have done you a service, even tho I'm sure it hurt at the time. Pity they did not give you some useful advance warning. But hey, their marbles, their rules.
In my experience, any operation that relies very much on personality tests or other sorts of psychodynamic ouiji magic is looking for a pattern of conformity that tends to filter out the free-er spirits, regardless of their competence or overall quality as humans. What they get, in return, are people who are skillful at faking the flavor of conformity being sought. Your namesake would have had little time for such folks, given the absurdity of the premise.
They may have done you a service, even tho I'm sure it hurt at the time. Pity they did not give you some useful advance warning. But hey, their marbles, their rules.
In my experience, any operation that relies very much on personality tests or other sorts of psychodynamic ouiji magic is looking for a pattern of conformity that tends to filter out the free-er spirits, regardless of their competence or overall quality as humans. What they get, in return, are people who are skillful at faking the flavor of conformity being sought. Your namesake would have had little time for such folks, given the absurdity of the premise.
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Arcniz - you speak well, grasshopper. I take comfort in the fact that they probably detected excess personality in me.
It was providence, however. I am in a much better place, and my DAL buddies (and UAL, and USAir....) are asking for help to come over to the big ramp on the other side of the airport.
It was providence, however. I am in a much better place, and my DAL buddies (and UAL, and USAir....) are asking for help to come over to the big ramp on the other side of the airport.
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Huck:
So the wind shifts and the tarmac turns greener on the other side, eh?
Hope you can help some of them find a new berth.
There's no luck that is greater for the spirit than the chance to be genuinely magnanimous. The choice of generosity over spite feels good, keeps well, and can't ever be taxed.
So the wind shifts and the tarmac turns greener on the other side, eh?
Hope you can help some of them find a new berth.
There's no luck that is greater for the spirit than the chance to be genuinely magnanimous. The choice of generosity over spite feels good, keeps well, and can't ever be taxed.
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Wino:
what scientists told the lawyer was:1 glass of wine consumed quickly results in a much higher blood alcohol level than slow consumption.
And that's what the lawyer demonstrated on himself in court.
I suppose we're dealing here with a physiological law.
Also: Y're right: 2.0 blood alcohol is wrong.
The case happened in Germany where blood alcohol is measured
in "promille". The woman had 2 "promille", 4 times over the limit.
I suppose that's 0.2 of what you meant, or someone please correct me...
Very sorry for the confusion. Happy New Year everybody!
what scientists told the lawyer was:1 glass of wine consumed quickly results in a much higher blood alcohol level than slow consumption.
And that's what the lawyer demonstrated on himself in court.
I suppose we're dealing here with a physiological law.
Also: Y're right: 2.0 blood alcohol is wrong.
The case happened in Germany where blood alcohol is measured
in "promille". The woman had 2 "promille", 4 times over the limit.
I suppose that's 0.2 of what you meant, or someone please correct me...
Very sorry for the confusion. Happy New Year everybody!
Last edited by charlyvictor; 31st Dec 2002 at 14:16.
Whilst I would have a great deal of sympathy for anyone that had a alcohol problem, (and I have known a couple of people close to me with serious problems) I would find it hard to be sympathetic with a pilot who drinks even one beer before duty. Why, for christs sakes?
But what I would like to know is, would a blood alcohol level such as 0.07 be indicative of recent, modereate drinking, such as one beer, or glass of wine, say within the last 4 hours, or of perhaps 3 pints of beer over 12 hours before.
I would have a lot more sympathy with the pilot concered if he'd perhaps had one more beer than he meant to and reported for duty the next day feeling 100% and not affected but was still registering alcahol in his system.
But what I would like to know is, would a blood alcohol level such as 0.07 be indicative of recent, modereate drinking, such as one beer, or glass of wine, say within the last 4 hours, or of perhaps 3 pints of beer over 12 hours before.
I would have a lot more sympathy with the pilot concered if he'd perhaps had one more beer than he meant to and reported for duty the next day feeling 100% and not affected but was still registering alcahol in his system.
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At the end of the day, doesn't matter how it got there fast or slow, whether you "feel" it or not, if the bac is over .04...your technically under the influence as per the FAA..
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In the australian Defence Force we have defence instruction that require us to have a zero percent BAL and nil effects of alcohol. As most of you will be aware, the vestibular system can be effected by alcohol for several days after a big night. That is why it is hard to remain wings level the next afternoon.
In the distant past it was known for military pilots to be somewhat creative with the regulations regarding drinking. But in this day and age there is simply no excuss. If someone is pissed, and a BAL of 0.7 is a level that provides severly impared function, you suffer the consequences.
I have very little sympathy with the individual involved, if indeed the alligation is true. Particulalry, after the individual was previously challenged and then continued with about his merry way.
Councilling -yes. Kick in the ass - yes. sack him - possibly. The message needs to be made to all and sundry - this is not acceptable.
In the distant past it was known for military pilots to be somewhat creative with the regulations regarding drinking. But in this day and age there is simply no excuss. If someone is pissed, and a BAL of 0.7 is a level that provides severly impared function, you suffer the consequences.
I have very little sympathy with the individual involved, if indeed the alligation is true. Particulalry, after the individual was previously challenged and then continued with about his merry way.
Councilling -yes. Kick in the ass - yes. sack him - possibly. The message needs to be made to all and sundry - this is not acceptable.
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Delta Air Lines were all too familiar with what occured at Eastern Air Lines.There was no way in hell that they were going to risk their company's future with some of the same people that helped DESTROY EASTERN.It was just a good business decision on the part of DAL and a very poor one on the part of the ALPA members at EAL.
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Good question.
Just that the hell DOES an Airline pilot do if he loses his licence?
It's not like there are many transferable skills, is it? You've got an intelligent, capable, educated, hard-working person who just happens to have skills he is legally prohibited from using. So what does he do? Ground-based "Theory" instructor seems logical.
But flying drugs for the mob, or for airlines to small to give a hoot about licences, (or in countries where it doesn't matter) sounds more romantic.... but much less plausable!
Just that the hell DOES an Airline pilot do if he loses his licence?
It's not like there are many transferable skills, is it? You've got an intelligent, capable, educated, hard-working person who just happens to have skills he is legally prohibited from using. So what does he do? Ground-based "Theory" instructor seems logical.
But flying drugs for the mob, or for airlines to small to give a hoot about licences, (or in countries where it doesn't matter) sounds more romantic.... but much less plausable!