Airliner Down in Iran
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Airliner Down in Iran
CNN is reporting that a Ukrainian airliner has crashed in Iran...
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More from MSNBC:
44 reported dead in Iran plane crash
Ukrainian jetliner was en route from Turkey to Iran
BREAKING NEWS
NBC, MSNBC AND NEWS SERVICES
A Ukrainian passenger plane traveling from Turkey to Iran crashed Monday, killing 44 people, Iranian TV and the al-Jazeera TV network reported.
THE PLANE was en route from Turkey to Isfahan, Iran, and was carrying Turkish and Ukrainian nationals, Iranian TV reported. Al-Jazeera reported that 44 people were dead. The plane went down 70 kilometers from Ardestan, south of Tehran.
Few other details were known.
_____________________________________
More from MSNBC:
44 reported dead in Iran plane crash
Ukrainian jetliner was en route from Turkey to Iran
BREAKING NEWS
NBC, MSNBC AND NEWS SERVICES
A Ukrainian passenger plane traveling from Turkey to Iran crashed Monday, killing 44 people, Iranian TV and the al-Jazeera TV network reported.
THE PLANE was en route from Turkey to Isfahan, Iran, and was carrying Turkish and Ukrainian nationals, Iranian TV reported. Al-Jazeera reported that 44 people were dead. The plane went down 70 kilometers from Ardestan, south of Tehran.
Few other details were known.
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Reuters report:
All Killed in Crash of Ukraine Plane - Iran
Mon December 23, 2002 03:37 PM ET
ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - All 46 people on board a Ukrainian airliner which crashed in Iran on Monday were killed, Iran's Transport Minister said.
In Islamabad, Ahmad Khorram told Reuters: "All 46 passengers including the crew have been killed. I am very sorry."
Iranian television reported earlier the 42 passengers were from a Ukrainian aerospace organization or company. They were headed from Turkey to Isfahan to test a new aircraft.
A Turkish airport official in Ankara said the airliner originated in the Black Sea city of Trabzon in northeastern Turkey. The plane lost contact with the ground close to the airport and went down 45 miles from Ardestan, south of Tehran.
All Killed in Crash of Ukraine Plane - Iran
Mon December 23, 2002 03:37 PM ET
ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - All 46 people on board a Ukrainian airliner which crashed in Iran on Monday were killed, Iran's Transport Minister said.
In Islamabad, Ahmad Khorram told Reuters: "All 46 passengers including the crew have been killed. I am very sorry."
Iranian television reported earlier the 42 passengers were from a Ukrainian aerospace organization or company. They were headed from Turkey to Isfahan to test a new aircraft.
A Turkish airport official in Ankara said the airliner originated in the Black Sea city of Trabzon in northeastern Turkey. The plane lost contact with the ground close to the airport and went down 45 miles from Ardestan, south of Tehran.
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New aircraft in Iran?
They were headed from Turkey to Isfahan to test a new aircraft?
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Not on a test flight from Turkey to Isfahan, but headed to Isfahan to test a version of the same plane according to BBC News...
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Dozens killed in Iran plane crash
A Ukrainian passenger plane carrying aerospace experts has crashed in central Iran, killing 46 people.
Iranian Transport Minister Ahmad Khorram confirmed that all 42 passengers and four crew died when the Antonov An-140 lost contact with Isfahan airport.
By a tragic irony, the Ukrainian aerospace delegation was on its way to test a version of the same plane being manufactured in a joint project in Isfahan.
It went down at about 1930 (1600 GMT) about 70 kilometres (45 miles) from Ardestan in Isfahan province.
Iranian radio said all of the passengers aboard were Ukrainian, though earlier reports said some Russians were among the dead.
The plane had reportedly taken off from an airport in Turkey.
The An-140 is a modern twin-turboprop commuter plane which made its maiden flight in 1999 and has rarely been involved in accidents.
Plane project to go ahead
The managing director of Iran's HESA aircraft-building company said the Ukrainian delegation had been due to attend a test flight ceremony for the Iran 140 on Tuesday.
Iran is assembling An-140s - renamed the Iran 140 locally - under licence from Ukraine.
The 52-seat commuter plane had its first public test flight in February 2001.
"It was the same model plane that we are developing with Ukraine, but I don't think the crash will affect this project," the Iranian transport minister told Reuters news agency.
_________________________________________________
Dozens killed in Iran plane crash
A Ukrainian passenger plane carrying aerospace experts has crashed in central Iran, killing 46 people.
Iranian Transport Minister Ahmad Khorram confirmed that all 42 passengers and four crew died when the Antonov An-140 lost contact with Isfahan airport.
By a tragic irony, the Ukrainian aerospace delegation was on its way to test a version of the same plane being manufactured in a joint project in Isfahan.
It went down at about 1930 (1600 GMT) about 70 kilometres (45 miles) from Ardestan in Isfahan province.
Iranian radio said all of the passengers aboard were Ukrainian, though earlier reports said some Russians were among the dead.
The plane had reportedly taken off from an airport in Turkey.
The An-140 is a modern twin-turboprop commuter plane which made its maiden flight in 1999 and has rarely been involved in accidents.
Plane project to go ahead
The managing director of Iran's HESA aircraft-building company said the Ukrainian delegation had been due to attend a test flight ceremony for the Iran 140 on Tuesday.
Iran is assembling An-140s - renamed the Iran 140 locally - under licence from Ukraine.
The 52-seat commuter plane had its first public test flight in February 2001.
"It was the same model plane that we are developing with Ukraine, but I don't think the crash will affect this project," the Iranian transport minister told Reuters news agency.
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Iran is manufacturing a new plane.
The reason for my post above which was printed in large letters followed by a question mark stems from my amazement that they had the capability of building an aircraft. I spent three years in Iran both in Isfahan and Tehran working for the Imperial Iranian Army Aviation with connections to both the Naval and Air Force maintenance and flight operations. Here is my assessment of their capabilities:
The Aeronautical engineers that were trained at some of the top schools in the US were ineffective by American standards. They were graded on a different standard during their classes to keep them in school because the education of Iranian students was a very big business at that time. They lacked basic engineering skills.
The pilots were trained to American standards by ex US military pilots. Normally an American pilot would be trained and at about 182 hours would be graduated and transferred to an operational unit. The Iranian pilots would get 200 hours of training and then they would get another 200 hours of supervised solo. After that they would be transferred to an operational unit and get 200 more hours under the watchful eye of a US Army pilot. And they still could not operate in a combat situation.
The mechanics were trained to US Army standards at least as far as the curriculum was concerned. Unlike the American military mechanics who spent many hours as a civilian working on their cars or in shop at school the Iranian mechanics had no previous skill sets to fall back on during their training. They had minimal if no mechanical skills and when they were graduated from the training courses they had no comprehension regarding the maintaining of their aircraft. I personally witnessed an Iranian student ring the head off of a 10/32 stainless bolt because he didn’t understand how to use a snap torque wrench. Most of the mechanics were "Homofars" (sp) who were high school graduates
yet, none of the pilots were Homofars. The mechanics were better educated than the pilots yet none of them could perform their jobs effectively.
Agusta set up the overhaul facilities, which had been in operation for several years prior to my arrival, and 80-90% of the workers could not perform any of the overhaul operations. In my three years on the program American technicians performed the overhaul and that went for the maintenance on all of their helicopters.
When Khomeni (sp) took over he killed most of the engineers that had been trained in the USA and many who were trained in the UK and Germany. He also killed the senior officers in the Army Aviation as well as the Air Force and the Navy wiping out the technical knowledge base.
Any Iranians involved in this undertaking reflect this same population base especially in Isfahan where there is no industrial base with the exception of a steel mill, which at that time was operated by the Russians. Even the quality of the steel was substandard by comparison to the steel made in other countries.
But then again I may be wrong.
The Aeronautical engineers that were trained at some of the top schools in the US were ineffective by American standards. They were graded on a different standard during their classes to keep them in school because the education of Iranian students was a very big business at that time. They lacked basic engineering skills.
The pilots were trained to American standards by ex US military pilots. Normally an American pilot would be trained and at about 182 hours would be graduated and transferred to an operational unit. The Iranian pilots would get 200 hours of training and then they would get another 200 hours of supervised solo. After that they would be transferred to an operational unit and get 200 more hours under the watchful eye of a US Army pilot. And they still could not operate in a combat situation.
The mechanics were trained to US Army standards at least as far as the curriculum was concerned. Unlike the American military mechanics who spent many hours as a civilian working on their cars or in shop at school the Iranian mechanics had no previous skill sets to fall back on during their training. They had minimal if no mechanical skills and when they were graduated from the training courses they had no comprehension regarding the maintaining of their aircraft. I personally witnessed an Iranian student ring the head off of a 10/32 stainless bolt because he didn’t understand how to use a snap torque wrench. Most of the mechanics were "Homofars" (sp) who were high school graduates
yet, none of the pilots were Homofars. The mechanics were better educated than the pilots yet none of them could perform their jobs effectively.
Agusta set up the overhaul facilities, which had been in operation for several years prior to my arrival, and 80-90% of the workers could not perform any of the overhaul operations. In my three years on the program American technicians performed the overhaul and that went for the maintenance on all of their helicopters.
When Khomeni (sp) took over he killed most of the engineers that had been trained in the USA and many who were trained in the UK and Germany. He also killed the senior officers in the Army Aviation as well as the Air Force and the Navy wiping out the technical knowledge base.
Any Iranians involved in this undertaking reflect this same population base especially in Isfahan where there is no industrial base with the exception of a steel mill, which at that time was operated by the Russians. Even the quality of the steel was substandard by comparison to the steel made in other countries.
But then again I may be wrong.
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The heaviest icing personally ever encountered was when we operated into Isfahan and Teheran years ago, with both turboprop and heavy jet aircraft.
Wonder if icing was a problem? The Isfahan weather especially can be...nasty.
Wonder if icing was a problem? The Isfahan weather especially can be...nasty.
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According to a flight international report:
the crew had low recent IMC and long range flight experience, therefore they carried a navigator in the jumpseat. All aircraft and airport equipment was serviceable. The crew used the GPS as their sole approach aid instead of the published procedures. The approach was intended to be visual but was at night and hazy. They decided to intercept a 10 DME arc using the GPS instead of DME. "The GPS read 9.5 DME for more than three minutes despite the fact the aircraft was tracking to approach the DME arc and intercept it and hit a mountain 33 km from the beacon". This is from the Scientific-Technical Commision of the CIS Interstate Aviation Committee(MAK).
Does anyone have a link to their reports?
the crew had low recent IMC and long range flight experience, therefore they carried a navigator in the jumpseat. All aircraft and airport equipment was serviceable. The crew used the GPS as their sole approach aid instead of the published procedures. The approach was intended to be visual but was at night and hazy. They decided to intercept a 10 DME arc using the GPS instead of DME. "The GPS read 9.5 DME for more than three minutes despite the fact the aircraft was tracking to approach the DME arc and intercept it and hit a mountain 33 km from the beacon". This is from the Scientific-Technical Commision of the CIS Interstate Aviation Committee(MAK).
Does anyone have a link to their reports?
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If anyone is interested, picture of an AN-140 here......
http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=130790
http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=130790
OK, I doubt that these pilots are suicidal. What went wrong? Don't give me this Soviet built A/C crap - pilots are pilots and ALL want to live.
I, too went into Tehran many moons ago and I know about TAS, D/A and the rest of it!! Ah, yes Rays #2 Pizza!!!
I, too went into Tehran many moons ago and I know about TAS, D/A and the rest of it!! Ah, yes Rays #2 Pizza!!!
