Take your shoes off - Aviation security

[PaperTiger]

TG I believe any court would hold that you are being searched voluntarily. If you choose not to consent to such a search, you are quite free to turn around and leave the airport.

You might make a case for restraint of trade, but the lawyers would be the only ones to benefit I suspect.

[Piltdown Man]

Is the right person being checked?

Marvellous security checking throughout the World, excellent stuff. All performed by highly skilled and motivated staff who never miss an angle (or crevice). But do they ever ask the obvious question of the wearer of swish pilot's uniform and newly printed homemade pass? "Is this person meant to be here?"

[Boss Raptor]

I recently went through this shoes fiasco in LAX, everyone's shoes setting off the machine...huge queues...shoes through the x-ray machine etc...where as at LHR a wave of the detector wand over the soles was considered quite sufficient...


My shoes are middle of the range all leather soled and resoled with a token 3 small tacks in the toe end and metal lace eyelets...setting off the machine no doubt...

The security 'moron' asked me why my soles had tacks in them...he seemed surprised at the explanation of being resoled...clearly because a peasant like him has not come across quality shoes!

PS. he was clearly an immigrant with an unintelligible accent and looks that would certainly raise concern as to his origins and security risk...had he not been an airport employee!!

[paulo]

They are looking for terrorists, not genuine flight crew.

The idea that a uniform and ID makes the matter clear is incredibly naive.

[PaperTiger]

surprised at the explanation of being resoled

LOL Boss, one of the things I noticed moving across the pond many years ago was the absence of real cobblers (shops that is). Plenty of quickie ladies' heel repairers, but the concept of replacing soles on men's shoes ? Nah, just buy another pair, sir.

[Bear 555]

Shoes

Here in Saudi, I have both ends of the spectrum to deal with. On one day, it is shoes off, belt off, a 'good frisking' and everything back through the machine. Next day - different shift on duty - and they are hardly interested.

Perhaps this is the issue?

Bear 555

[luoto]

Here in Saudi, I have both ends of the spectrum to deal with. On one day, it is shoes off, belt off, a 'good frisking' and everything back through the machine. Next day - different shift on duty - and they are hardly interested.

Dear Mr Bear. I must not use PPRUNE so early in the morning after waking up.. and maybe clean my glasses.. I read it as you got a 'good fisting' and wondered just how liberated certain Middle Easten states have become:0

In Finland they even ****** about with the bands now on internal flights -and followed the same knee-jerk reactions post-September 11. However, not every airport has followed the directives with gusto.

[Boss Raptor]

Good security implementation should have 2 aims;

1. to achieve the desired screening to counter the threat in a sensible and efficient manner

2. to minimise the economic impact and inconvenience of such screening to both the travelling passenger and operator alike

At the moment in my opinion we do not have 'good security'...

So how long before operators warn passengers 'dont wear re-soled shoes, dont wear belts, dont wear a watch, dont carry a laptop, dont carry anything metal etc. etc. as this will cause inconvenience and delays at security'...why dont we just all go naked or give up flying altogether!

As a frequent traveller I have seen how this security is perceived as very frightening and threatening by some passengers, particularly the elderly...in several cases I have had to reassure elderly passengers in the security queue as they genuinely get very stressed and very upset at the whole process...air travel is a very stressful experience for many people and they are thinking twice now about travelling not because of the terrorist threat but because of the grief they have to endure taking the flight...this industry has enough problems at the moment without losing yet more passengers in this way...

I am all for security but it doesn't have to be or shouldn't have to be like this...

[Bear 555]

Boss Raptor - Couldn't agree with you more. But it does smack of common sense. I advise co-workers, subcontractors and anyone flying here to consider what may get them hassled at the security checks and sort it out before getting to the airport. Very difficult to explain away a laptop with a flat battery when they want to see the thing working and the adaptors are in the hold baggage already...

We do have an additional check at most airports here before you even get to the check-in desk!

Luoto - no, not yet. Sometimes I do wonder though...

Bear 555

[John Barnes]

Answer to stupidity

There is a sort of answer to the stupidity of the form of security checks that are carried out on operating crewmembers, trying to get to their Aircraft. There however are a few minimum requirements to achieve this goal.
a) You need to work for a carrier that flies a lot of passengers and finds it important to depart on time.
b) You should be on a trip that is scheduled to maximum duty time, and where a delay might result in the crew running out of duty, this all for the maximum effect of the following actions.
Whenever you are confronted or requested to go through a search where they take off your shoes and confiscate the nail clippers you patiently follow the routine.
As soon as you are at the gate and ready to board you request for the duty safety supervisor at that airport (LAX is perfect!!!) and ask him to come to the gate. When he shows up ( and believe me he will!) you ask him to return to you your nail clipper ( or any other thing that was taken) knowing that he will then tell you that it is against the regulations to have such an object on board of the aircraft.
You then invite him to the flight deck and tell him that for you to be in compliance with these regulations he has to remove the crash axe from the aircraft. This again will be no problem for the safety expert and he will be happy to take the axe. ( After initially being shocked to see such a vicious weapon in reach of a loony pilot!)
Now you consult your MEL and will very soon find out that without a crash axe there is no flying unless… you can get dispensation from the relevant aviation authorities and get a waiver. Now here is the beauty because have you ever tried to get a waiver at 2220 lt at any airport in the world when the civil servants are already on one ear.
You now have a very nervous station manager, 320 pissed of passengers and a flight that goes nowhere, a crew running out of duty and no standby to be found. I take it that the next time you go through security the company has done everything in its power to get you through with the minimum of discomfort.

[JesterYHZ]

Had to add my 2 cents worth in here...As an airline mechanic, part of my job involves travelling to remote airports to effect repairs on our A/C that had the nerve to break, away from home. In the past (Pre9-11) we would leave the hangar, drive up to the departing A/C, throw our gear on board, and meet the gate agent at the door of the A/C, where they would have our boarding passes. This minimized the waiting time for Pax & crew, as often they were holding the flight for us. ( We usually have less than 1/2 hr to gather parts, manuals, tools etc to make the flight). Now ( Post 9-11) we are required to go through security before boarding. At some airports, this process can take up to 45 mins.

Here's the scenario: We come from a secured area (the ramp), go into an un-secured area (the terminal), just so we can go through security to procede to the secured area we just left !!!

P.S. We still throw our gear on board before we go into the terminal.

Is it just me, or does anyone else see the Keystone Kops type of thing going on here???


And another thing...it seems now that our Canada-wide security pass isn't Canada -wide anymore. Its only good at the issuing airport. Kinda makes ya wonder why I filled out those endless security clearance forms, and finger printing.

[WHBM]

Different stations with conflicting security requirements annoy me.

Flight from UK to Ireland and return last week.

UK departure airport: "What are you doing taking your laptop out of its bag here. Put it back. Hurry up, you're holding everyone else up."

Irish airport on return: "Why haven't you taken your laptop out of its bag for me to check? Hurry up, you're holding everyone else up."

Frequent SLF.

[steamchicken]

SLfing through STN a few weeks back, it was the zip of my Schott jacket the machine didn't like...and that was after it had a fit about my belt buckle!

[Max Continuous]

I quite often SLF to Europe from LHR & LGW as a sim tre and last week got the "shoes off" treatment at the second security check just before boarding. Quite humiliating at the time, belittling really. Some of the posts above say it's all in the name of security, sacrifice your dignity to the cause etc. Well, it's the final straw for me. The general unnecessary hassle in today's flying environment, not just security but all of its unpleasantness means that the crews travelling with me for training are often arriving at the sim tired and stressed before they even begin. I'm going to seriously look at going by rail next time through the chunnel. I'm amazed that anybody flies at all these days unless it's absolutely necessary. And of course it's not just aviation security. Officialdom everywhere has started to become just a little bit frightening in the UK. Do you respect the police any more? Whose side are they on? Tried making a joke to a traffic warden recently? Planning regulators, hygiene inspectors, adoption agencies, CSA - the list is endless. All these people are paid for by us!

JB - I suspect that, in the end some sort of direct action along the lines you suggest is going to be the answer if passenger profiling is considered politically unacceptable. The first few people to do it are probably going to lose their jobs - but more than one or two of us are getting close to the stage where we don't care any more and I suppose it's us who are going to have to make the stand...

[John Barnes]

I am at the point, with three basechecks to go, that I don't give a F*** if they fire me or not. I realise that this is easier said for me than for a young guy with mortgage, and a young family at the beginning of his carreer. Therefor it should be guys like us, who have achieved some sort of financial security to carry the candle. I have done it and it is unbelievable how many people suddenly get involved. The chief of airport security in one of the places was totally unaware of the inconsistency of the policies and changed them there and then in such a way that flightcrew was checked only for their ID and crossed off against the GD. This only happened after a long long delay with lots of phonecalls up and down the line. I just stuck to one rule like a broken record" Sorry sir your policy says that no sharp objects longer than 4 inches in any way or form are allowed in the aircraft, and I don't want to break your rule, so please take the crash axe off!" The rest unfolds itself

[Tripower455]

It all makes perfect sense if you look at it the way that the powers that be do.........

What is the # priority in an elected official's mind?

To get RE elected.

How does one get re elected?

By giving the appearance of DOING something beneficial for his/her constituents.

What better way to male it look like you are doing something about terrorism than by putting on a huge show for the public?

By giving the supporting roles in the Greatest Security Show on Earth to pilots and flight attendants, you are reinforcing the illusion to the public by having an authority figure submitting to the same intrusive procedures that they get.

It is pretty surreal when not 15 minutes after standing at the checkpoint in my socks, (watching the mensa folks at security trying to determine the lethality of my comm headset), I see the cleaning woman (who doesn't speak a lick of english) cutting up cardboard boxes in the crew lounge, with (you guessed it!) a BOX CUTTER!

At least I can't hijack my OWN plane!

[Loose rivets]

I wear cheap shoes. I know, I'm a pilot.... or at least I was until just after 9/11,.... and a pilot should be able to afford good shoes. I could when I was a young F/O, but now it has to be good old Jet A1-proof plastic soles that will also stand up to waddling in de-icing fluid. The problem is that they had a reinforcing sprung-steel rod running 70% of the sole length!!

I grew so tired of taking these off for the brown-shirts, that I did some surgery on the poor old Clarke's specials and removed the offending blades. It seems that many of the modern molded sole have this spring built in. A total impasse.

In a way it's our fault!!! Twenty years ago I walked out of my flight deck, slipped on a sports jacket and sat in the back waiting to be flown home. Huh!.. " the flight is being delayed because of you Capt. XXX" (Capt. XXX is not my real name) To cut an exceedingly boring story short, I had to walk back to the office block door, nod at security, climb stairs, descend stairs, walk down the road where common people walk, enter the terminal building, find my check-out, go through "security", board the aircraft with every one glaring at me, and sit in the seat that had my flight bag over it. (No, I couldn't be fagged to carry it round the circuit with me.) On the way home, a company brown-nose explained to me that my family might be held hostage and this is why I now had to be checked. Mmmm..... so why couldn't I be vulnerable when I was the Captain? What the **** difference did my nice jacket make?? Why after twenty years, is this cr** is this still going on?

We can't make protests that simply hurt our own outfits / investors, but now is the time for some metered control over this madness. They should be obliged to explain who they think that we going to attack with 3 tin-tacks or a spring from a cheap shoe? We all know how barmy it is, why has it taken 1/4 of a century to start any serious rumbles?

[Mister Geezer]

I was SLF out of LGW a few weeks ago after spending the day with the CAA at the Belgrano (Aviation House) mmmm.fun! Anyway, on my way home my bag was picked out for a search. The security chap opened it and just checked my mobile phone and a calculator and then sent me off on my merry way. My bag was full of books and folders (all containing stuff which was aviation related) and none of it was touched. A Performance book must have been obvious to the chap who was looking at my bag since it was the first thing that he saw when he opened my bag.

If I worked in security then I would be keen to search someone who was in normal clothes travelling as pax with a bag which is full of aviation related material. Obviously in my case the reverse applied but I was very puzzled as to why. Surely he did not let me off on the assumption that I was a pilot?

[vikingwill]

I know it's more of the same, but having 2 luggage & body searches at: Gatwick, 3, yes, 3 at Cincinnati and a further 3 at Atlanta en-route to Albany (including, in the US having an inductance rod pushed down the front of your trousers, by someone clearly not a proctologist or urologist) in full public view, with the last 2 in secure areas smacks of a certain over-enthusiasm. Of course to possess a single carrier ticket - presumably meant that the "search him" computer record being carried over probably contributed. So for me, air travel has become too much hassle. I've replaced nearly three quarters of my business trips with videoconference. It may be a cr*p way of interacting, but it beats the humiliation of the inductance rod.

And you wonder why the revenues of the flag carriers is in free-fall. Honestly folks, what we need here is a global review of security and procedures conducted by specialists in the field of aviation, military and counter-terrorism and decidedly light in burocrats and politicians.

[whatshouldiuse]

All;

I'm SLF as they like to say on PPRUNE. I had boot and shoe searches in PHX long before September 11th. Don't take it personally !!

With the proliferation of the theft of Airline Crew's Outfits over the past couple of months in the New York region, I feel it is an absolute must that EVERYBODY be screened at security. No if's ands or buts.

How would you feel if somebody with your uniform and name tag killed 200+ people? Not real great, I'd imagine.

So once again, don't take this overbearing and overzeaalous security the wrong way. One day, it might save your life as well as mine.

Andy