BA towing mishap
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With reference to display of Nav lights on towing aircraft, at LGW a year or so ago there was a trial period where the CAA allowed an exemption to display Nav lights with the TBL Tugs having the extra 'flashy lights'. The trial period was not extended so Nav lights/beacons have to be displayed or officially the towing movement is not allowed to take place. Although theoretically in ATC we should be able to separate the aircraft without the need of Nav lights & I assume this rule is for night, I doubt we'd notice the lights in daytime anyway!
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Anti-Col
Anti-col lights were illuminated by direction of BAA (HAL) last year as other pilots had complained that in poor visibility towing a/c could not be seen nor could there progress be asessed. When the tow barless tractors arrived they were not fitted with flashing beacons nor did they have units to power the a/c behind them. Rumour has it that both a/c will be hangared for 8 weeks plus.
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I'm sorry to ask what's probably a silly question, but could one of you explain how a towbarless tug operates. I have visions of a 747 being towed along on the end of a rope, but that seems unlikely. 
The vehicle has a hydraulic ramp which clamps the nose gear and then lifts it clear of the ground. Thus the aircraft can be towed with the tractor locked to the nose and able to push/pull and steer.
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair.
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The trial of single operator towing was carried out at Heathrow late at night some time around July or August 1998. The tractor units were fitted with folding arms each mounted with a strobe unit of something like 4000 cd each which were filtered aviation red and aviation green. These were set so that they would shine up and illuminate the two sides of the aircraft with a pool of high intensity light in an approved colour and so ensure that the aircraft could be easily seen and recognised from all angles without the on board nav/anti-collision lights.
As for the comment about not being able to see the aircraft from behind, at the time of the trial someone to the rear of the aircraft would have been facing a combined flash power of 7-8,000 cd, which is in the region of 18 times more powerful than a standard red strobe.
What happened after this I don't know as I changed jobs shortly after and lost touch with the project.
As for the comment about not being able to see the aircraft from behind, at the time of the trial someone to the rear of the aircraft would have been facing a combined flash power of 7-8,000 cd, which is in the region of 18 times more powerful than a standard red strobe.
What happened after this I don't know as I changed jobs shortly after and lost touch with the project.
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J-Class, the 747 is not currently 'in favour' in BA. The airline has been aching to sell at least 5 of the 57 strong fleet with no success. S/H values are a disaster. However, seating 409 in standard configuration, it is an effective people/long range mover, and is certainly being utilised heavily on Far East routes with fantastic load factors........BUT, a lot of this is to do with Aylings decision a few years ago to chase the premium market and upgrade premium seating (reducing total capacity) at a time when that market reduced significantly. The costs to go back are prohibitive. The 777 will be missed most as its seat mile costs are better and it seems to be the flavour of the day, but its capacity is significantly less.
A Golden rule was broken- never collide with your own aeroplanes. It takes 2 out of service- much better to hit someonelses! It's quite stunning the battering airliners seem to take. Bashing from service vehicles is a daily occurence, 'hangar rash' is far too common, but the cavalier treatment by ground services teams in operations like this is astonishing (it would not have been the Engineering Department moving the planes). I've had our freight door closed onto the loading vehicle, presumably the operator was studying his nails whilst being very 'cavalier' closing up!One incident springs to mind in which a Classic 747 was pushed back at night at LHR and hit another aeroplane. Unnoticed in the dark, it flew to Nairobi where the damage to the elevators was discovered on a ground inspection in the dawn's light! Far too much of this sort of thing happens. The Turkish/AA DC10 freight door crashes showed astonishing stupidity by loaders who mishandled freight door closing operations, the AA DC10 engine separation crash (ORD) was 'rough' treatment of engine change procedures- it's unbelievable when you read about it, but if you're not flying on that aeroplane, it doesn't seem to matter so much! Some 600+ dead in those 3 incidents alone.
(Helmets on! Incoming!!)
A Golden rule was broken- never collide with your own aeroplanes. It takes 2 out of service- much better to hit someonelses! It's quite stunning the battering airliners seem to take. Bashing from service vehicles is a daily occurence, 'hangar rash' is far too common, but the cavalier treatment by ground services teams in operations like this is astonishing (it would not have been the Engineering Department moving the planes). I've had our freight door closed onto the loading vehicle, presumably the operator was studying his nails whilst being very 'cavalier' closing up!One incident springs to mind in which a Classic 747 was pushed back at night at LHR and hit another aeroplane. Unnoticed in the dark, it flew to Nairobi where the damage to the elevators was discovered on a ground inspection in the dawn's light! Far too much of this sort of thing happens. The Turkish/AA DC10 freight door crashes showed astonishing stupidity by loaders who mishandled freight door closing operations, the AA DC10 engine separation crash (ORD) was 'rough' treatment of engine change procedures- it's unbelievable when you read about it, but if you're not flying on that aeroplane, it doesn't seem to matter so much! Some 600+ dead in those 3 incidents alone.
(Helmets on! Incoming!!)
Last edited by Notso Fantastic; 3rd Dec 2002 at 09:49.
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Can anyone tell me how you can make the various lights go bright, when moving a/c during maint, ie out of hangar and back again. This is when you swap a/c about, with no Battery or APU.
Have been involved in this many a time.
Have been involved in this many a time.
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I remember at the time many professionals queried the sense of towing aircraft without a brakeman in the flightdeck and no lights on. The now familiar reactionary response was to press on regardless of the concerns of the operational community. How they imagined the loss of a small number of extra mechanics would save the company a large amount of money can only be explained by their miserable performance elsewhere.
Once again, Aylings legacy, which is already costing us £45,800 per hour in interest on his debts, has returned to haunt us.
It's always the same. Some regular cleverdick with a degree in underwater basketweaving 'saves' the company twopence and costs us a million.
Oh despair!
I’ll take on the opposition anyday. It’s my management I can’t beat!
Once again, Aylings legacy, which is already costing us £45,800 per hour in interest on his debts, has returned to haunt us.
It's always the same. Some regular cleverdick with a degree in underwater basketweaving 'saves' the company twopence and costs us a million.
Oh despair!
I’ll take on the opposition anyday. It’s my management I can’t beat!
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Yeah but the Asiana 744 vs. IL-62 at ANC wasn't the groundies' fault!! Then again, there was the SV 743 vs. the ditch at KUL...
(Sorry but they are such crackers of stories, thought I'd bring them up. Anyone know where the photos are these days??)
Thanks
TD67
(Sorry but they are such crackers of stories, thought I'd bring them up. Anyone know where the photos are these days??)
Thanks
TD67
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Mr @ Spotty M,
you can make the various lights go on whlie towing an 747, with no Battery or APU, by using a proper tug (TBL or not) with a running GPU, hook up the pwr cable and switch the bits and bobs on above the capyains seat and there you go, see and be seen
PS, might need the battery on actually to be able to switch pwr to external, can't remember{
you can make the various lights go on whlie towing an 747, with no Battery or APU, by using a proper tug (TBL or not) with a running GPU, hook up the pwr cable and switch the bits and bobs on above the capyains seat and there you go, see and be seen
PS, might need the battery on actually to be able to switch pwr to external, can't remember{
Death Cruiser Flight Crew
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Roobarb: Would that be "Bob's" £260,000 p.a. pension plus £2m "Golden Cheerio" that's getting you so glum? I see the cheekie wee chappie's fixed himself up with a £50,000 p.a. for one day a week renting out caravans, or something. All this PLUS his seat on the board of Royal & Sun Alliance. My my.
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Well here's the KL F-up!
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?i...%3D&static=yes
Enjoy the laughter! But, spare a thought for the donkey who did it!!!!!!
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?i...%3D&static=yes
Enjoy the laughter! But, spare a thought for the donkey who did it!!!!!!
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Now I know, why first item in "Taxi Checks" on our Cessna 150 is "Test Brakes".
When any of the students ask that - this incident will supply the answer needed.
Glad nobody was hurt.
When any of the students ask that - this incident will supply the answer needed.
Glad nobody was hurt.
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Thanks Touch.
Found the ANC shots:
http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/asiana-anc/1.shtml
Love the way they got to t/o power (blowing out windows in the terminal) before they realised something was up!!!
Found the ANC shots:
http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/asiana-anc/1.shtml
Love the way they got to t/o power (blowing out windows in the terminal) before they realised something was up!!!
Scourge of Bad Airline Management!
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Don't blame the baggage handlers....
Got to take issue with Notso Fantastic for one of his comments....
I quote:
"The Turkish/AA DC10 freight door crashes showed astonishing stupidity by loaders who mishandled freight door closing operations...."
I trained as an engineer with BAe, and I always had it drummed into me that, as an engineer working in a nice air conditioned office, I had to think ahead for the days when someone would use the bit of kit in the field - and a wet, dark, windy field at that.
The fault with the DC10 aft cargo door was one of design. The Law of Sod says that, if it could be mislatched, one day it would be. In the Paris case it was one Mohammed Mahmoudi who was the unfortunate individual, who locked the door according to what he had been taught. The guilty party was the person who designed a door that could appear to be locked (warning lights out, vent door closed etc) when in fact it was not - leading to the deaths of 346 people.
Don't blame the baggage handler - blame the people who designed such a non-failsafe door latch.
TA
I quote:
"The Turkish/AA DC10 freight door crashes showed astonishing stupidity by loaders who mishandled freight door closing operations...."
I trained as an engineer with BAe, and I always had it drummed into me that, as an engineer working in a nice air conditioned office, I had to think ahead for the days when someone would use the bit of kit in the field - and a wet, dark, windy field at that.
The fault with the DC10 aft cargo door was one of design. The Law of Sod says that, if it could be mislatched, one day it would be. In the Paris case it was one Mohammed Mahmoudi who was the unfortunate individual, who locked the door according to what he had been taught. The guilty party was the person who designed a door that could appear to be locked (warning lights out, vent door closed etc) when in fact it was not - leading to the deaths of 346 people.
Don't blame the baggage handler - blame the people who designed such a non-failsafe door latch.
TA
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For some reason the short cut for the ANC shots is not working. May want to try this one:
http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/as...nc/photo.shtml
Hope this one works.
http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/as...nc/photo.shtml
Hope this one works.