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Times "Pilot's pay = £60-120K"

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Times "Pilot's pay = £60-120K"

Old 22nd Nov 2002, 11:12
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Times "Pilot's pay = £60-120K"

Times Online - Pay Survey

In case you can't find it, the relevant extract is:

PILOT

PAY: £60,000-£120,000
Benefits: Discount air fares and travel. Choice of pension. Profit share scheme. Subsidised staff restaurants.
Perks: You see the world.
Snags: Jet lag. Unsociable hours.
Did you realise: Open-door flight deck policies on flights have ceased worldwide since September 11, preventing any contact between pilot and crew. Even a cup of tea must be requested via the intercom

Don't shoot the messenger please!

PV
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Old 22nd Nov 2002, 13:51
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Cool

60k? After 4 years on jets I'm still on barely half of that..... well researched article innit?
You notice, if course, that pilot was one of the professions where they didn't bother to provide an example...
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Old 22nd Nov 2002, 14:19
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Angry

I've just written to the Times to complain about the obvious lack of research by Ms Henery and the subsequent perpetuation of the myth that most of us are overpaid and underworked.

Should they decide not to publish it I will post it here.
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Old 22nd Nov 2002, 14:51
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May not be true for UK paid folks, but accounting for currency conversion, these salaries are certainly obtainable in the USA, DAL, FedEx more senior guys/gals for example.
Good friend of mine, recently retired from UAL (B747-400) told me his final annulized salary was $355,000, and considering the "toys" he has available, most likely on the mark. He and another retired UAL Captain have just purchased airport property in TUS for...you guessed it, UAL aircraft storage. That, and a LearJet for his air ambulance business, to compliment the three TurboCommanders already in the fleet.
Business is good, it seems.
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Old 22nd Nov 2002, 15:06
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Thumbs down

I suspect this is the average (with sector pay, perks etc) for an average UK captain rather than pilot.

Poorly researched as usual.
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Old 22nd Nov 2002, 15:23
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Now I understand.

No wonder the vast majority of pilot posting ppruners are against the Firemans £2. 60 an hour wage claim.

If you lot are on "barely £30k per year" then the last thing you want, is a simple fireman catching up.

The other way to look at it I suppose, is to support the firemans pay claim and then expect their support when you put in one of your own.

That is however, if you think you should be on parity wagewise with your US cousins.

Then again, maybe you are happy on £30k.

Personally I think it is a derisory remuneration for the work you do.


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Old 22nd Nov 2002, 15:40
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Not getting confused with the cost of training and resulting bank overdraft that self sponsored pilots have in consequence is she?

Might be right about the unsociable hours during night stopovers though
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Old 22nd Nov 2002, 15:56
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Please get her to read what I mentioned in terms of Endearment.
£34,700 for a Training Captain on the MD83 away from your home
and loved ones, in a country who knows where, but probably
with a foreign office warning on "do not travel to this country"
unless abslolutely necessary. Well feeding the family is necessary.

Its time this woman got into the real world and sees how pilots are miserably treated these days. Huh !!!!!!

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Old 22nd Nov 2002, 20:40
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WOW........all that money and yet they still complain when the sandwiches (provided free) are a little curly around the edges...
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Old 22nd Nov 2002, 20:56
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......or, to darn BIG to fit in the uniform pocket.
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Old 22nd Nov 2002, 21:17
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I can see this turning into handbags at dawn !
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Old 22nd Nov 2002, 21:18
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The best catering always is out of Western Europe!
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Old 22nd Nov 2002, 21:20
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Oh my ears and whiskers!

"Derisory" has reappeared in the prints after a long and much-needed rest.

Heads down for the resurrection of the unlovely and occasionally illiterate vocabulary of the industrial dispute 1970s style.

I never thought that I would see it, but in Gilchrist the firemen have found someone even less articulate than Prescott!

Let the games begin!
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Old 22nd Nov 2002, 22:57
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Blimey!

£18K... (UK, F/O, scheduled airline, turboprop)

In a previous life I sat in an office playing solitaire and managed £80K!

How much does it cost to become a fireman? Do I have to buy my own rating? Do I have to not earn for a year and a half?

Stu - not that bitter, but positively twisted
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Old 22nd Nov 2002, 23:38
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Arrow

Where was the mention of the average PPL full time instructor who could earn anything from £8000 to £15000 ish...? For Joe Public who bothered to read the article, he/she will not doubt have a glazed view on what really happens in aviation. For someone who is about to embark on instructing I am not complaining about the money but it would be nice to see the press getting something right for a change!
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Old 23rd Nov 2002, 06:53
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Solution to this "problem" -- don't buy a certain newspaper (or any, in fact).
 
Old 23rd Nov 2002, 09:06
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Mister Geezer:

Don't let anyone know what us flying instructors really earn - how else am I going to impress the ladies?
It won't be with the car that cost less than an hour in a C172 will it.....
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Old 23rd Nov 2002, 09:13
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What the public think matters a great deal. Our perceived worth has a bearing on what we are paid and how we are treated. I can't imagine the Times would be hurt too severely by our boycotting their paper -but a sack of letters to the editor might just get them to research their next pilot story a bit more.
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Old 23rd Nov 2002, 17:17
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Exclamation £60k eh?

Forget appealing to the public. You wonít find anyone tooting the pilotís picket line. The image of a pilot will remain the overpaid underworked smoothy in a Porsche. Such a misconception suits our respective managements, which they use as a tool to drive down T&Cís, and the newspaper editors are not the kind of individuals who are interested in anybody elseís perception but their own.

What the headline figure fails to mention is the lack of extras. The norm is for pilots pay to be taxed PAYE, most other earners in this group file full tax returns and make appropriate deductions for expenses on an individual basis. I file a full tax return and still get no deductions.

When you see an ad for an executive job, you will see £70k + package. This package includes car with all expenses paid, school fees, private health care for the whole family, generous mortgage assistance for the SE, health club concessions, Air Miles on all corporate card usage, the list goes on. And of course thereís the bonus. One chap at my daughterís school is an archetypal computer nerd, and he took £100k in a bonus this year. There are other similar examples. The £70k is pocket money.

People make all kinds of assumptions about pilots which are completely off the wall. Our own professionalism and modesty has allowed articles such as these go unchallenged. I hope to read Dannyís rebuttal in Ďthe Thundererí in the very near future.


Iíll take on the opposition anyday. Itís my management I canít beat!
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Old 23rd Nov 2002, 19:18
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Last time I worked abroad on a large contract (it was in a SE Asian country) my colleagues wives made contact with the local expat communities. Most of these people were there on a similiar two year stay.

The difference in the 'package' was an eye opener.

Pilots got paid something marginally better than local rate...which was not brilliant.
Pilots paid for their own accomodation.
Pilots took care of their own transport costs.
They were given childrens allowances which just about covered the cost of the local national schools.

The other expats typically had large houses provided free of charge.
They usually had a maid and driver, free of charge.
They all had a car (driven by their driver) provided free of charge.
Their kids were placed in the best International schools, free of charge.
They were paid salaries at least double the top local captain rate.

We were like beggars in this community.
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