KLMuk/Buzz vote on strike action
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 72
Likes: 142
From: UK
KLMuk/Buzz vote for strike action
BALPA members at KLMuk/Buzz Voted with a majority of over 90% for approving strike action in their dispute with the company over the terms of the merger with KLM cityhopper.
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
From: Zummerset
Company Council met with the Company at ACAS. Mr. Van Pallandt did not attend (why one asks).
Basically the company refused to move their stance on any of the issues raised (pay, transfer rights buzz to blue and yellow to blue).
Another meeting at ACAS on Monday. Company Council are not hopeful that the Company will take these negotiations seriously hence a strike is likely to be called on Monday. A press release will be issued on Monday and the strike dates etc. will be announced.
This is getting serious now. The members have voted overwhelmingly to secure the future by industrial action but STILL the company seem to not take it seriously.
See you on the picket line.
Basically the company refused to move their stance on any of the issues raised (pay, transfer rights buzz to blue and yellow to blue).
Another meeting at ACAS on Monday. Company Council are not hopeful that the Company will take these negotiations seriously hence a strike is likely to be called on Monday. A press release will be issued on Monday and the strike dates etc. will be announced.
This is getting serious now. The members have voted overwhelmingly to secure the future by industrial action but STILL the company seem to not take it seriously.
See you on the picket line.
Joined: Dec 1998
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
From: Down Under
So 'unwiseowl' , you don't want to be 'forced to strike break'.
Regretably it would seem you have chosen an appropriate login name. Integrity is a quality strike breakers do not possess.
Think carefully before making any decision.
Regretably it would seem you have chosen an appropriate login name. Integrity is a quality strike breakers do not possess.
Think carefully before making any decision.
stilljustanothernumber
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 624
Likes: 0
From: the night sky
ooizcalling
You appear to have no knowledge of UK employment law: If my employer orders me to do the work I have no choice, other than become unemployed ! I would say that integrity is a quality those who choose to strike-break do not possess.
You appear to have no knowledge of UK employment law: If my employer orders me to do the work I have no choice, other than become unemployed ! I would say that integrity is a quality those who choose to strike-break do not possess.
stilljustanothernumber
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 624
Likes: 0
From: the night sky
Shuttleworth
You too seem to misunderstand: I support the Air UK/Buzz guys AND WISH THEM WELL I would loath having to strike break. Your "get sick idea" does have some merit but the bottom line is that the airline would manage to crew strike breaking flights and this is not the best time of year for a strike.
You too seem to misunderstand: I support the Air UK/Buzz guys AND WISH THEM WELL I would loath having to strike break. Your "get sick idea" does have some merit but the bottom line is that the airline would manage to crew strike breaking flights and this is not the best time of year for a strike.
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
From: London FIR
Can I ask a couple of serious questions just to put this in perspective in my own head?
(i) What's the typical salary of a Buzz/KLMuk captain? First officer?
(If you're shy, you don't have to be precise...ballpark figure will do)
(ii) I recall that strike threats suddenly vanished after 9/11 when pilots were being laid off left, right and centre. Is that still the case? How secure are the Buzz/KLMuk jobs?
Not being sarcastic here, just wondering.
(i) What's the typical salary of a Buzz/KLMuk captain? First officer?
(If you're shy, you don't have to be precise...ballpark figure will do)
(ii) I recall that strike threats suddenly vanished after 9/11 when pilots were being laid off left, right and centre. Is that still the case? How secure are the Buzz/KLMuk jobs?
Not being sarcastic here, just wondering.
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
From: england
I understand that their dispute is over the split of the workforce according to the brand they have been working under. KLM uk have removed basic rights of contract whilst at the same time dictating new terms of employment if pilots wish to keep these terms. KLM is a profitable company and only the UK pilots are being messed around the their dutch counterparts have just recieved a great pay conditions deal for doing exactly the same job. Its almost racism
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,242
Likes: 0
From: Australia
I always understood that the Dutch pilots union was one of the stongest going, their position in this dispute could be the make-or-break issue?
Just have to hope that KLM haven't recently discovered that they have enough spare capacity to cover the Buzz/KLMuk flights themselves, (as winter approaches), hope you guys are not playing into their hands?
Don't talk yourself into unemployment - it's been done before.
Just have to hope that KLM haven't recently discovered that they have enough spare capacity to cover the Buzz/KLMuk flights themselves, (as winter approaches), hope you guys are not playing into their hands?
Don't talk yourself into unemployment - it's been done before.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
From: 50N30W
Interesting story going around. Seems that
Dutch pilot's questioned the Dutch Pilot's Union about
this deal with KLM Uk etc, and raised serious doubts about
the social aspects for the British pilots. The Dutch union said
that the British pilots were actually very happy with the deal
and did not want any amendments and so nothing was
done.Some Dutch guys feeling very p***** off.Not to
mention the British one's.
Dutch pilot's questioned the Dutch Pilot's Union about
this deal with KLM Uk etc, and raised serious doubts about
the social aspects for the British pilots. The Dutch union said
that the British pilots were actually very happy with the deal
and did not want any amendments and so nothing was
done.Some Dutch guys feeling very p***** off.Not to
mention the British one's.
Joined: Dec 1998
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
From: Down Under
unwiseowl
You are basicaly correct, I do not have much knowledge of UK labour law, but isn't strike action one of the basic rights (but last resort) of the industrial scene there ? If as you imply the company just has to say 'go to work' and you go, then the so-called strike action is a non event.
What about the current fire fighters strike in the UK. Surely if your premis is correct the government would have already said 'go to work' and hey presto, no strike.... also no negotiations, no contract update, no pay increases etc etc
There is something missing from your argument.
Shuttleworth.
Sounds like you work for the same company but are not involved in union association, but you do accept the conditions that the unions negotiate. If so thats somewhat unprincipled isn't it ?
You are basicaly correct, I do not have much knowledge of UK labour law, but isn't strike action one of the basic rights (but last resort) of the industrial scene there ? If as you imply the company just has to say 'go to work' and you go, then the so-called strike action is a non event.
What about the current fire fighters strike in the UK. Surely if your premis is correct the government would have already said 'go to work' and hey presto, no strike.... also no negotiations, no contract update, no pay increases etc etc
There is something missing from your argument.
Shuttleworth.
Sounds like you work for the same company but are not involved in union association, but you do accept the conditions that the unions negotiate. If so thats somewhat unprincipled isn't it ?
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 72
Likes: 142
From: UK
Blue Eagle
I believe the VNV (Dutch pilots union), have given our C.C. an assurance that they will not cover any 'dirty' routes. Therefore it does not matter how much spare capacity KLM have, because none of their pilots will touch our routes. Hopefully this will apply to all IFALPA pilots as this is an official action.
I believe the VNV (Dutch pilots union), have given our C.C. an assurance that they will not cover any 'dirty' routes. Therefore it does not matter how much spare capacity KLM have, because none of their pilots will touch our routes. Hopefully this will apply to all IFALPA pilots as this is an official action.
stilljustanothernumber
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 624
Likes: 0
From: the night sky
ooizcalling
I do not work for KLMUK/BUZZ but a company which may well be used to cover their flights when they strike. If I were to refuse to operate those flights, I would be taking "secondary action", which is illegal in the UK, thanks to Mrs T.
If you feel inclined to apologise for jumping down my throut - feel free!!!
I do not work for KLMUK/BUZZ but a company which may well be used to cover their flights when they strike. If I were to refuse to operate those flights, I would be taking "secondary action", which is illegal in the UK, thanks to Mrs T.
If you feel inclined to apologise for jumping down my throut - feel free!!!
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 27,400
Likes: 857
From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
As someone who enjoys travelling with buzz, could I ask:
1. What precisely is the cause of the discontent?
2. Have representatives of those who are discontent held formal meetings with the employer?
3. Has independent industrial arbitration been sought?
1. What precisely is the cause of the discontent?
2. Have representatives of those who are discontent held formal meetings with the employer?
3. Has independent industrial arbitration been sought?
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Joined: Jan 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 4,332
Likes: 486
From: England
Beagle and others. Please wait until the press release by BALPA tomorrow (Monday), until then you will only get bits of the story. In answer to your question though, yes, the pilot's representatives have been working with the company for several months now, but there seems to be little understanding of their grievances.
Unwiseowl. I believe that BALPA may ask other companies not to "strike-break". You are right that secondary action is illegal, but in my understanding this means you cannot drag your company into the dispute and refuse to work normally. However I believe that refusing to take action that will undermine an official strike, providing your union has approved it, is not illegal. I suspect BALPA will inform all companies concerned if it should come to this; there is still hope at the ACAS meeting tomorrow.
Aerobat. There was no vote on a split, and pilots did not vote in favour.
Unwiseowl. I believe that BALPA may ask other companies not to "strike-break". You are right that secondary action is illegal, but in my understanding this means you cannot drag your company into the dispute and refuse to work normally. However I believe that refusing to take action that will undermine an official strike, providing your union has approved it, is not illegal. I suspect BALPA will inform all companies concerned if it should come to this; there is still hope at the ACAS meeting tomorrow.
Aerobat. There was no vote on a split, and pilots did not vote in favour.
Joined: Dec 1998
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
From: Down Under
Unwiseowl.
OK situation now explained by your other post It was NOT clear in your initial post on which my reaction was based. The legacy of Mrs T lingers on, eh (will the current 'New Labour' change anything there ?) The info from 'Herod' also helped clear up the situation, so you've learnt something too. Sorry you were offended by my post.
OK situation now explained by your other post It was NOT clear in your initial post on which my reaction was based. The legacy of Mrs T lingers on, eh (will the current 'New Labour' change anything there ?) The info from 'Herod' also helped clear up the situation, so you've learnt something too. Sorry you were offended by my post.