Did they shoot one down ?
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Did they shoot one down ?
Story from Sky News reprts that the FBI have not ruled out the fact that United Airlines Flight 93 may have been shot down! http://www.sky.com/skynews/storytemp...029252,00.html 
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I think we all wondered that initially, given that the aircraft was the last to crash and clearly did so some way short of itīs intended target.
However, if the aircraft had been shot down then the debris field would be very much bigger than it is since the aircraft would almost certainly have broken up at altitude.
The more plausible scenario is that the pax tried to regain control of the aircraft. We know that pax on this plane were in touch with relatives (on the instructions of the hijackers) on cellphones an airphones. It is also known that these relatives would have been aware of the attacks on the Twin Towers and possibly the Pentagon since UAL93 was hijacked later and was still enroute to Washington.
If, as is likely, the pax learned from these relatives that the hijackers intended to crash the aircraft killing not only them but many more people on the ground, then the blades carried by the hijackers and even their threat to detonate a bomb lost their potency as a means to keep the pax timid. If you know with all certaintly that you are going to be killed unless you risk attacking the hijackers then you will attack. Mark Bingham, the guy who called his mother and sister, was heard to say to a fellow passenger "...itīs true" before ringing off."
Maybe control of the aircraft was lost in the struggle, maybe the hijackers had some kind of bomb (explaining the second crash site six miles from the other) but it seems clear that the pax on UAL93 fought for their lives and unfortunately lost.
[ 13 September 2001: Message edited by: B747wideboy ]
However, if the aircraft had been shot down then the debris field would be very much bigger than it is since the aircraft would almost certainly have broken up at altitude.
The more plausible scenario is that the pax tried to regain control of the aircraft. We know that pax on this plane were in touch with relatives (on the instructions of the hijackers) on cellphones an airphones. It is also known that these relatives would have been aware of the attacks on the Twin Towers and possibly the Pentagon since UAL93 was hijacked later and was still enroute to Washington.
If, as is likely, the pax learned from these relatives that the hijackers intended to crash the aircraft killing not only them but many more people on the ground, then the blades carried by the hijackers and even their threat to detonate a bomb lost their potency as a means to keep the pax timid. If you know with all certaintly that you are going to be killed unless you risk attacking the hijackers then you will attack. Mark Bingham, the guy who called his mother and sister, was heard to say to a fellow passenger "...itīs true" before ringing off."
Maybe control of the aircraft was lost in the struggle, maybe the hijackers had some kind of bomb (explaining the second crash site six miles from the other) but it seems clear that the pax on UAL93 fought for their lives and unfortunately lost.
[ 13 September 2001: Message edited by: B747wideboy ]
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Or 'won' if they actually prevented the ultimate cruel objective of the hijack !!!!
I gather (from ITV) that the black box has been found and hopefully this does or will include the CVR and perhaps the whole story will come out.
If this theory proves to be true I hope their efforts are rewarded by the US government in the only way they can (apart from whatever financial compensation is provided to families) with the award of an appropriate posthumous recognition.
Its a horrible world we live in.
I gather (from ITV) that the black box has been found and hopefully this does or will include the CVR and perhaps the whole story will come out.
If this theory proves to be true I hope their efforts are rewarded by the US government in the only way they can (apart from whatever financial compensation is provided to families) with the award of an appropriate posthumous recognition.
Its a horrible world we live in.
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although in no way conclusive, recent news on itv touched on a press conference in pa., which gave the general impression that military intervention had all but been ruled out.
there were other stories showing loved ones of those who died on board recounting the phonecalls they received from the aircraft, and while i cant recall if the one in particular i am thinking o f was concerning the pa. crash, the woman on screen said her husband told her that he and other passengers (and possibly crew, i cant recall)were going to take it into their own hands to do whatever they could to stop the terrorists achiveing their original objectives
in any case, heroism all round
there were other stories showing loved ones of those who died on board recounting the phonecalls they received from the aircraft, and while i cant recall if the one in particular i am thinking o f was concerning the pa. crash, the woman on screen said her husband told her that he and other passengers (and possibly crew, i cant recall)were going to take it into their own hands to do whatever they could to stop the terrorists achiveing their original objectives
in any case, heroism all round
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SPIT
A"new debris field" ?......cos they were just as traumatised as the rest of us.....and weren't up to speed.
Your president looked very shaken at his Press Conference today....that wasn't acting........and the plane couldn't have been destroyed without his OK. Poor ****** if he had to give the OK and thewn keep quiet about it....my heart goes out to him.
Sorry for your trouble you USA people out there........ you're not alone in your grief
PeterJ
A"new debris field" ?......cos they were just as traumatised as the rest of us.....and weren't up to speed.
Your president looked very shaken at his Press Conference today....that wasn't acting........and the plane couldn't have been destroyed without his OK. Poor ****** if he had to give the OK and thewn keep quiet about it....my heart goes out to him.
Sorry for your trouble you USA people out there........ you're not alone in your grief
PeterJ
Still behind the curtain
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From all the sources that I hear, they did NOT, rpt NOT, shoot the plane down. The passengers were actually encouraged to make mobile phone calls to friends and relatives on this plane. What I hear is that they took some sort of vote and decided to storm the flight deck (two FA's had already been stabbed). The hijackers held a a red box which they said contained a bomb. As the storming of the cockpit happened, the bomb could have gone off and parts of the plane could have been scattered 2-6 miles before final impact. Again, my sources pretty close to the investigation say again that it was not shot down. But who knows in the world that this has turned into.
PETERJ
Thanks for explaining that, I have to agree with your sentiments about the poor b******* being very traumetised
PS Please excuse the spelling it has been a sod of a day for me
Thanks for explaining that, I have to agree with your sentiments about the poor b******* being very traumetised
PS Please excuse the spelling it has been a sod of a day for me
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This evil thing has also provided us with wonderful examples of the goodness of man which surpasses the evil that the few commit. Today, the American television was filled with one story after another that demonstrated the individual courage of ordinary people that are caught up in extraordinary events. The accounts of passengers like Thomas E. Burnette, Jr., one of the passengers that said he and two other men were going to try to regain control of the airplane, the New York firefighters and rescue personnel who refused to leave the scene when part of the building began to shift because they would not leave knowing they could hear the tapping of survivors under their feet. Common people who having lost loved ones, offered aid and comfort to others, volunteers who dug in the rubble searching for survivors and had to be forced away to rest after two days of work in perilous conditions. Flags are waving, candles are burning, prayers are being said...and everyone stands together in this. We have taken a terrible loss of life, but out of this, our democracy grows stronger, our love of country strengthens, it cannot help but remind one of how great the bond is which binds us. In time of need, these ordinary people have done some very extraordinary things.
If Burnette and his fellow passengers did what he said...and I have no doubt they did....you can count on them being recognized as heroes and as well as they should be. What a legacy to leave your child.
God Bless them all.
If Burnette and his fellow passengers did what he said...and I have no doubt they did....you can count on them being recognized as heroes and as well as they should be. What a legacy to leave your child.
God Bless them all.
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Also note the simulation of the track of this flight that have been shown is an erratic curve for the final period of the flight, some parts easterly and some southerly.
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B747wideboy Debris field now appears to be 6 miles long, not exactly high level break up, Pan Am was about 90 miles long.
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What I said in my previous was that the debris field, even at six miles in length, was far too small for the aircraft to have broken up at cruise altitude as would have been the case if it were shot down.
The aircraft was clearly out of control, probably due to a struggle in the flight deck. There is a possibility that the hijackers did have a bomb managed to detonate it which would explain why it now seems that the debris field was bigger than initially thought.
The aircraft was clearly out of control, probably due to a struggle in the flight deck. There is a possibility that the hijackers did have a bomb managed to detonate it which would explain why it now seems that the debris field was bigger than initially thought.
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May the victims rest in peace and the perpetrators be found and punished severely!!
Im sorry about the post my curiosity has been satisfied.
[ 14 September 2001: Message edited by: baranfin ]
Im sorry about the post my curiosity has been satisfied.
[ 14 September 2001: Message edited by: baranfin ]
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Apollo
You are missing a couple of things nobody has mentioned a 747 a fellow ppruner's nom de plume is B747wideboy
Second debris site was shown about 6 hours, the story is on CNN
You are missing a couple of things nobody has mentioned a 747 a fellow ppruner's nom de plume is B747wideboy
Second debris site was shown about 6 hours, the story is on CNN
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Baranfin,
Can appreciate you wanting to know the answer, but do you think enough has been said on this PUBLIC forum already?
I am shocked so much has already been said about transponders in the media as it is!
Lancer
[ 14 September 2001: Message edited by: *Lancer* ]
Can appreciate you wanting to know the answer, but do you think enough has been said on this PUBLIC forum already?
I am shocked so much has already been said about transponders in the media as it is!
Lancer
[ 14 September 2001: Message edited by: *Lancer* ]
