Lufthansa Cockpit doors open for flight!
Fly -K : it is perhaps worth putting this into perspective. You will no doubt observe that ( according to the information given) that the majority of posts on this thread emanate from either the US or UK. Without inviting a discussion as to why the Blair government in Britain feels obliged to slavishly follow the US there can surely be little doubt that the UK government has, in relation to aviation security issues at least, acted almost entirely in line with the diktats of the US. Most other European countries have chosen a more pragmatic view, as indeed they appear to be doing with regard to other - and potentially more dramatic - issues arising from terrorist activities. If you look through both present and recent past posts you will see that the aviation security situation - in the UK at least - is bordering on the hysterical. As to the effectiveness of the 'measures' which are implemented without any obvious reason other than to keep the public ( media) happy I pass no comment.Suffice it to say that - as a UK national, resident in mainland Europe and a current professional pilot operating scheduled passenger services through the UK - I no longer even enter the terminal buildings there on longer turnrounds to buy the odd magazine. It is simply too much hassle.
There is now such paranoia extant that if attention is drawn to any operation which is not considered to be doing ' the right thing' according to the US/UK thinking you have the sort of reaction which has appeared here. I would not alarm yourself unduly : happily the Frankfurter Zeitung has a substantially more responsible attitude to journalism than appears elsewhere in Europe. You will observe that a question I asked earlier in the thread has remained unanswered. Hopefully your desire to see this discussion draw peacefully to a close will be met!
There is now such paranoia extant that if attention is drawn to any operation which is not considered to be doing ' the right thing' according to the US/UK thinking you have the sort of reaction which has appeared here. I would not alarm yourself unduly : happily the Frankfurter Zeitung has a substantially more responsible attitude to journalism than appears elsewhere in Europe. You will observe that a question I asked earlier in the thread has remained unanswered. Hopefully your desire to see this discussion draw peacefully to a close will be met!
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Some comments on this topic are really disgusting!
But the most important thing was not mentioned.
The Aircraft was not a Lufthansa Aircraft. It was a Do328 operated by Cirrus Airlines a team Lufthansa member with own company policy.
But the most important thing was not mentioned.
The Aircraft was not a Lufthansa Aircraft. It was a Do328 operated by Cirrus Airlines a team Lufthansa member with own company policy.
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amazed
Ladies and Gentlemen,
What we have here is a failure to communicate! several years ago i happened to be a pax from KHI to FRA. During my conversation with one of the flight attendants I was asked if I would like to visit the flight deck.
Upon answering in the affirmative and checking my ID, we strolled to the front when to my surprise I see the cockpit door open. I couldnt believe it!! I met the crew, and added my opinion about the open door. they were not in the least concerned.
Considering the fact that the captain did not check my Id beforehand, and traveling from a hot spot area of the world really amazed me.
We all must adcvocate for keeping these doors closed and locked. During movement of the aircraft under its own power.
unless you have been affected, you will not understand the paranoid climate that we here in the U.S. have been thrust into.
thanx
What we have here is a failure to communicate! several years ago i happened to be a pax from KHI to FRA. During my conversation with one of the flight attendants I was asked if I would like to visit the flight deck.
Upon answering in the affirmative and checking my ID, we strolled to the front when to my surprise I see the cockpit door open. I couldnt believe it!! I met the crew, and added my opinion about the open door. they were not in the least concerned.
Considering the fact that the captain did not check my Id beforehand, and traveling from a hot spot area of the world really amazed me.
We all must adcvocate for keeping these doors closed and locked. During movement of the aircraft under its own power.
unless you have been affected, you will not understand the paranoid climate that we here in the U.S. have been thrust into.
thanx
Well, Mooney, guess you take this week's brushfire prize for provoking the fastest off-the-hip reaction times. As well as the densest.
Cheers, see you in chat - keep that helmet well fastened!
Cheers, see you in chat - keep that helmet well fastened!
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Yes those happy days of cockpit visits are gone. 
what a shame that our jobs have changed so much, and the interaction between flight-deck and cabin has degraded as well.
now we are just 2 guys locked in a tiny space alone
what a shame that our jobs have changed so much, and the interaction between flight-deck and cabin has degraded as well.
now we are just 2 guys locked in a tiny space alone
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Gee broadreach
Didn't realise we were in such exalted company, sorry we haven't quite come up to your intellectual level
I took a trip into the site to see the pic, definitely took midflight, even I was surprised.
The guy who took the photo seems very upset & alarmed by peoples response to him on this site. Why there's no harm in taking the photos & revealing what risks are still being taken there is harm in giving too much information & potentially identifying & risking pilots livelihoods even though they could do with their wrists slapped. 
Prudence is what is called for in these situations, there's too many loonies out there willing to use an aircraft large or small, on regional or international routes that once loaded with fuel has the potential to be uaed as a flying bomb.
Emerald
Didn't realise we were in such exalted company, sorry we haven't quite come up to your intellectual level
I took a trip into the site to see the pic, definitely took midflight, even I was surprised.
The guy who took the photo seems very upset & alarmed by peoples response to him on this site. Why there's no harm in taking the photos & revealing what risks are still being taken there is harm in giving too much information & potentially identifying & risking pilots livelihoods even though they could do with their wrists slapped. Prudence is what is called for in these situations, there's too many loonies out there willing to use an aircraft large or small, on regional or international routes that once loaded with fuel has the potential to be uaed as a flying bomb.
Emerald
Hi Celtic. I'm not sure if you were offended by my last post - in no way intended and perhaps it was I being dense. It was supposed to be humorous so let me explain.
Mooney started this thread on Tuesday afternoon and was immediately flamed. By Wednesday, I think it was, the thread had gone to four pages, mostly violently pro- or con- . Even Fly-K who took the photo and made a tongue-in-cheek comment about Lufthansa security was torched as a bozo!
Thus my remark about brush fire speed and off-the-hip responses. "Dense" was intended as "difficult to understand the reasoning", not "stupid".
I thought the most commonsense posting was Captain 104's, pointing out that Cirrus is a tiny regional where everyone, at both ends of the airplane, knows each other.
On a regional flight in those circumstances, an open door wouldn't bother me at all. So I'd have to disagree with Mooney's blanket condemnation of open doors on any aircraft. On a larger aircraft with hundreds of people on board I would be alarmed - so I agree with him partially. As I do with Scareboos where large aircraft are concerned.
What it boils down to is that you're not likely to solve the security problem by across-the-board SOPs.
Although I don't go along with the manner of MOR's addressing Mooney at the outset, I do most wholeheartedly agree with his later assessment or the danger posed by a light aircraft full of Semtex.
Mooney started this thread on Tuesday afternoon and was immediately flamed. By Wednesday, I think it was, the thread had gone to four pages, mostly violently pro- or con- . Even Fly-K who took the photo and made a tongue-in-cheek comment about Lufthansa security was torched as a bozo!
Thus my remark about brush fire speed and off-the-hip responses. "Dense" was intended as "difficult to understand the reasoning", not "stupid".
I thought the most commonsense posting was Captain 104's, pointing out that Cirrus is a tiny regional where everyone, at both ends of the airplane, knows each other.
On a regional flight in those circumstances, an open door wouldn't bother me at all. So I'd have to disagree with Mooney's blanket condemnation of open doors on any aircraft. On a larger aircraft with hundreds of people on board I would be alarmed - so I agree with him partially. As I do with Scareboos where large aircraft are concerned.
What it boils down to is that you're not likely to solve the security problem by across-the-board SOPs.
Although I don't go along with the manner of MOR's addressing Mooney at the outset, I do most wholeheartedly agree with his later assessment or the danger posed by a light aircraft full of Semtex.
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Kent Brockman - My Two Cents
I for one prefer to keep the door closed. I don't wish to have passengers snooping at myself or my esteemed colleague in one of the (very) rare moments we are not reading the Ops manuals or talking about in depth technical issues.
At least it stops those who mistake the door for a forward toilet.
At least it stops those who mistake the door for a forward toilet.
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I think what Mooney is trying to put across is that once people start diluting the rules that suit themselves, very soon there will be no rules at all leaving a situation ripe for persons of evil intent to find loopholes.
Also I do not believe closed & locked cockpit doors are window dressing, but vital in this dangerous world. If they prevent strangers gaining access or just buy time they are certainly safer than having an open door policy where every Tom, Dick & Harry can stroll in.
Mind you the forward loo has bothered me. Could this cause security problems being so close to the cockpit?
Emerald
is trying to put across is that once people start diluting the rules that suit themselves, very soon there will be no rules at all leaving a situation ripe for persons of evil intent to find loopholes.Also I do not believe closed & locked cockpit doors are window dressing, but vital in this dangerous world. If they prevent strangers gaining access or just buy time they are certainly safer than having an open door policy where every Tom, Dick & Harry can stroll in.
Mind you the forward loo has bothered me. Could this cause security problems being so close to the cockpit?
Emerald
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Isn't it great to see someone with the wit to see through all this cr*p with locked doors. Locking the piece of plastic is totally useless.
The CAA have just about managed to persuade all the other authorities and their Transport Departments that locking the door will prevent future hijackings. At least the professionals know the truth. It will do no such thing and is designed SOLELY to give the public the idea that flying is safe again. That way their political masters, the various Transport Ministers, can claim that THEIR government is doing everything they can to protect the public.
Sorry but we know better. The only safe one is El AL but of course that level of security is not "acceptable" to the faceless idiots who regulate our lives. What a shame not to be able to see a little kid's eyes light up when (s)he gets to see the sharp end.
The CAA have just about managed to persuade all the other authorities and their Transport Departments that locking the door will prevent future hijackings. At least the professionals know the truth. It will do no such thing and is designed SOLELY to give the public the idea that flying is safe again. That way their political masters, the various Transport Ministers, can claim that THEIR government is doing everything they can to protect the public.
Sorry but we know better. The only safe one is El AL but of course that level of security is not "acceptable" to the faceless idiots who regulate our lives. What a shame not to be able to see a little kid's eyes light up when (s)he gets to see the sharp end.
