Pilot Loads Own Aircraft At ...man
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Having worked in desptach and load control for nearly ten years I'd been inclined to agree. There are 'Despatchers' and there are paperwork delivery boys who double up as time keepers. Handling agents are there to provide a service and it is evident from these messages that this is not obviously happening at MAN ! For the sake of safety and professionalism licensing, as in the USA, is not a bad idea.
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Hi Folks
It's very interesting reading some of the postings about crews lending a hand. I work in aviation(Ground), I live in Scandinavia now and previous to that i worked in Edinburgh Airport for the large Blue handling agent for 4 years.
Through my time as a dispatcher I have seen some stupid mucks up's, mainly due to the lack of training by the company. The loadsheet is a important document, it requires in-depth knowledge and Airlines/Handling agents SHOULD take more time in educating staff on all aspects. Some of my colleges didn't know where the fuel figures were never mind something as simple as passenger figures. The attitude of "until then just keep delivering the paperwork" is probably correct, maybe a little unfair to those of us who know what we are doing???
The way I see it dispatchers come from all walks of life's, there are those who see it as just a job and the others who enjoy and take some pride and interest in what they do. As a dispatcher I have been faced with the scenario of telling the captain his flight will be late due to baggage delays or manpower delays. Most would mump and moan but there were those who got out of there seat and said "What can I do to help" It was those moments that made me feel like this job was one big team effort. I applaud the crews who had patience and were willing to listen to the problems we dealing with.
On a brighter note, maybe off topic.
I have been working in Scandinavia for the same company. It is a true privilege to work here, I am proud to work for the company again, the way the company is run here is far superior to anything I witnessed in the UK, the people here are far more professional and education is a serious part of our jobs. The level of service is very high quality and we get continued praise from our customers and their airline crews. Maybe the Scandinavians have this dispatching thing down to a tea? IE Better than the British.. I think so..
It's very interesting reading some of the postings about crews lending a hand. I work in aviation(Ground), I live in Scandinavia now and previous to that i worked in Edinburgh Airport for the large Blue handling agent for 4 years.
Through my time as a dispatcher I have seen some stupid mucks up's, mainly due to the lack of training by the company. The loadsheet is a important document, it requires in-depth knowledge and Airlines/Handling agents SHOULD take more time in educating staff on all aspects. Some of my colleges didn't know where the fuel figures were never mind something as simple as passenger figures. The attitude of "until then just keep delivering the paperwork" is probably correct, maybe a little unfair to those of us who know what we are doing???
The way I see it dispatchers come from all walks of life's, there are those who see it as just a job and the others who enjoy and take some pride and interest in what they do. As a dispatcher I have been faced with the scenario of telling the captain his flight will be late due to baggage delays or manpower delays. Most would mump and moan but there were those who got out of there seat and said "What can I do to help" It was those moments that made me feel like this job was one big team effort. I applaud the crews who had patience and were willing to listen to the problems we dealing with.
On a brighter note, maybe off topic.
I have been working in Scandinavia for the same company. It is a true privilege to work here, I am proud to work for the company again, the way the company is run here is far superior to anything I witnessed in the UK, the people here are far more professional and education is a serious part of our jobs. The level of service is very high quality and we get continued praise from our customers and their airline crews. Maybe the Scandinavians have this dispatching thing down to a tea? IE Better than the British.. I think so..
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not loading bags but similar ...... I remember many years ago arriving late at night to DUB for a connecting flight to SNN (the last one of the day) ...... the airline in question only had two or three check in desks and they were clearly closed for the night ...... as it happened a pilot for the airline was just leaving the desk area and I remember saying to him that I guessed my flight had gone ..... he asked me my destination and replied "it had better not have because I'm flying it down to SNN" ....... with that, he took my ticket - checked me in and said "now run!" ...... and he and I made the flight!!!
Its little things like that, that you remember for a long time
Its little things like that, that you remember for a long time
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I too work as a flight dispatcher at LHR. It would be great if the CAA would license us too in the same way that the US licenses their dispatchers. That way it would give us a bit more respect from some flight deck crews, who just look at us and speak to us like we are totally stupid (and we could expect to earn a half decent wage too 
)
The licenses that some airlines issue in the UK are not actually a legal requirement so mean diddly squat in the real world, but just mean that you have completed the training course to despatch that a/c type, and show that you have a slightly higher level of intelligence than some of the muppets that claim to be dispatchers working out there (most often found working for the UK's biggest handling agent.)
It does annoy me though when I get patronised and spoken to like a complete imbassile (sp?) by flight deck crews. I consider myself to be a professional too (just like yourselves, it's not my fault the CAA won't license us), and I will do whatever it takes to ensure that my flight departs ontime (without breaking regulations). There are alot of times though when I can only do so much, and I don't need your smart comments or constant nagging on the radio when things are not going to plan (remeber the nicer and more civillised you speak to me, the more I'll do for you, would you go out of your way to help out someone who speaks to you like a piece of crap -probably not).
Trust me I'm on the case. I'm a believer in being Pro-active rather than Re-active and I think that makes all the differance in the role of a flight dispatcher.
Please, next time things are not going to plan, give us dispatchers a chance and remember the nicer you are to us, the more we'll pull strings for you.
)The licenses that some airlines issue in the UK are not actually a legal requirement so mean diddly squat in the real world, but just mean that you have completed the training course to despatch that a/c type, and show that you have a slightly higher level of intelligence than some of the muppets that claim to be dispatchers working out there (most often found working for the UK's biggest handling agent.)
It does annoy me though when I get patronised and spoken to like a complete imbassile (sp?) by flight deck crews. I consider myself to be a professional too (just like yourselves, it's not my fault the CAA won't license us), and I will do whatever it takes to ensure that my flight departs ontime (without breaking regulations). There are alot of times though when I can only do so much, and I don't need your smart comments or constant nagging on the radio when things are not going to plan (remeber the nicer and more civillised you speak to me, the more I'll do for you, would you go out of your way to help out someone who speaks to you like a piece of crap -probably not).
Trust me I'm on the case. I'm a believer in being Pro-active rather than Re-active and I think that makes all the differance in the role of a flight dispatcher.
Please, next time things are not going to plan, give us dispatchers a chance and remember the nicer you are to us, the more we'll pull strings for you.
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leezyjet
couldnt agree more with your sentiments regards how Capts seem to speak down to dispatchers when it aint goin there way when all we are trying to do is our best.It would be a lot easier to get planes out on time with a bit of help from crews during turnarounds instead of them trying to work out if they will get an extra day off here or there depending on how late they end up getting home,which really p****s me off and some other fellow dispatchers,aswell as being called jobs worths by some crews for trying to get their flight back to running to some sort of schedule.
And as you say speak to me like a human being and not your underling and I will do all I can to make sure your flight departs on time.
a good trim is in trim
couldnt agree more with your sentiments regards how Capts seem to speak down to dispatchers when it aint goin there way when all we are trying to do is our best.It would be a lot easier to get planes out on time with a bit of help from crews during turnarounds instead of them trying to work out if they will get an extra day off here or there depending on how late they end up getting home,which really p****s me off and some other fellow dispatchers,aswell as being called jobs worths by some crews for trying to get their flight back to running to some sort of schedule.
And as you say speak to me like a human being and not your underling and I will do all I can to make sure your flight departs on time.
a good trim is in trim
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In answer to you Mr BEagle sir Ringpiece bag loaders should down tools on the grounds of Health & Saftey. Managers at Ringway Handling are putting peoples lives at risk.
so says the slug
so says the slug
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Leezyjet, a proper licensing system would be great but will the various handling agents actually want to pay for their people to go through it, or would the companies ask you to do the courses and pay out of your own pocket? After all what would the CAA charge for their fee, would it be the exhorbitant amount pilots/FE's have to pay for their exams?
I always try to be nice to the agents but when you get 2 visits, one as you walk past them on the finger getting on and one to tell you the bags are not here at STD it is a bit hard, and when the said agent doesn't realise what the loadsheet means it gets harder still.
If the agent gives me the impression he (she) cares and is proactive then they will get all the respect and help I can give them. I look forward to the day when a proper licensing system is in place and the companies pay a decent salary, maybe then we will get the calibre of person the job demands, until then we will carry on as we are, doing what we have to.
I always try to be nice to the agents but when you get 2 visits, one as you walk past them on the finger getting on and one to tell you the bags are not here at STD it is a bit hard, and when the said agent doesn't realise what the loadsheet means it gets harder still.
If the agent gives me the impression he (she) cares and is proactive then they will get all the respect and help I can give them. I look forward to the day when a proper licensing system is in place and the companies pay a decent salary, maybe then we will get the calibre of person the job demands, until then we will carry on as we are, doing what we have to.
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MY RESPONSE
I feel I have been slagged off enough and here is my response.
First off, my post was meant very tongue in cheek. I do not work for the handling agent in qustion that is contracted to Air2000. I infact work for a handling agent that actually employs load controllers / despatchers proper. I in fact do my own loadsheets and understand them fully. I am trained in all aspects of weight and balance, including the handling and transport of hazardous materials. I am fully FAA qualified and have load planning experience on no less than 15 airframes. I have been working in the air transport sector since 1993, both civilian and in the USAF, and I will be damned if some big headed pilots breathing rarified air are going to call me a message boy. I am a professinal. I expect to be treated as such. I may not make the money and have the cushy hours and benefits of a professional airline pilot, but I am good at my job and I do give a damn.
Manchester Airport has many problems and they have all been beaten to death in these forums. You pilots need to understand that many of these are out of the control of the despatchers. I have absolutely no control as to when baggage is relesed from the baggage halls. Often times it is up to -5 STD. I have no control over staffing issues at my company. The airlines my company handle pay us peanuts and in return expect us to jump through burning hoops of fire for them. We have to do the job with the barest minimum of staff in order to maintain profitibility.
As for the attitudes of pilots. In the last 3 days, due to staff shortages, I have worked 43 hours. I have busted my ass and my on time performance is about 96%. I never saw a single pilot "lend us a hand to get the job done in the spirit of teamwork". Bollocks! I never even so much as heard a simple "thanks for all the hard work you guys did to get me out of here on time after arriving on stand 20 minutes late".
I dont expect it.
I would be just happy if I was treated as a professional.
As for the issue of licensing. Who would pay for that? Would the airlines be willing to pay extra for fully licensed despatchers? I would expect a serious jump in pay. While I do love my job, I also have a family to feed.
First off, my post was meant very tongue in cheek. I do not work for the handling agent in qustion that is contracted to Air2000. I infact work for a handling agent that actually employs load controllers / despatchers proper. I in fact do my own loadsheets and understand them fully. I am trained in all aspects of weight and balance, including the handling and transport of hazardous materials. I am fully FAA qualified and have load planning experience on no less than 15 airframes. I have been working in the air transport sector since 1993, both civilian and in the USAF, and I will be damned if some big headed pilots breathing rarified air are going to call me a message boy. I am a professinal. I expect to be treated as such. I may not make the money and have the cushy hours and benefits of a professional airline pilot, but I am good at my job and I do give a damn.
Manchester Airport has many problems and they have all been beaten to death in these forums. You pilots need to understand that many of these are out of the control of the despatchers. I have absolutely no control as to when baggage is relesed from the baggage halls. Often times it is up to -5 STD. I have no control over staffing issues at my company. The airlines my company handle pay us peanuts and in return expect us to jump through burning hoops of fire for them. We have to do the job with the barest minimum of staff in order to maintain profitibility.
As for the attitudes of pilots. In the last 3 days, due to staff shortages, I have worked 43 hours. I have busted my ass and my on time performance is about 96%. I never saw a single pilot "lend us a hand to get the job done in the spirit of teamwork". Bollocks! I never even so much as heard a simple "thanks for all the hard work you guys did to get me out of here on time after arriving on stand 20 minutes late".
I dont expect it.
I would be just happy if I was treated as a professional.
As for the issue of licensing. Who would pay for that? Would the airlines be willing to pay extra for fully licensed despatchers? I would expect a serious jump in pay. While I do love my job, I also have a family to feed.
stilljustanothernumber
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Don't blame the airlines for poor pay and staff shortages: Yes, the airlines will take the deal which offers best value for money, but who decides what price is charged? COMPETITION DICTATES THE PRICE. So blame your managers and the managers of your competitors.
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Leezyjet
You're quite right, there is no need to talk down to despatchers in the manner that some guys do. I myself often cringe at the way the guys are spoken too by some and wonder too if these guys speak the same to the girl behind the chipshop counter...... Of course there are despatchers and despatchers and if there's an incompetent one who regularly services your aircraft that can get a little frustrating (no excuse perhaps).
Licensing MAY help overcome this but I suspect not - it hasn't done for pilots and look at how licensed and regulated we are!
I know it's irritating but bear with us - it's the bloke with the attitude who has the problem (and the guy sat in the other seat who has to "accomodate" him for the next twelve hours.....)
You're quite right, there is no need to talk down to despatchers in the manner that some guys do. I myself often cringe at the way the guys are spoken too by some and wonder too if these guys speak the same to the girl behind the chipshop counter...... Of course there are despatchers and despatchers and if there's an incompetent one who regularly services your aircraft that can get a little frustrating (no excuse perhaps).
Licensing MAY help overcome this but I suspect not - it hasn't done for pilots and look at how licensed and regulated we are!
I know it's irritating but bear with us - it's the bloke with the attitude who has the problem (and the guy sat in the other seat who has to "accomodate" him for the next twelve hours.....)
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Well CainanUK,
First of all in my experience , Despatchers get a hell of a lot more training for weight and balance than the drivers do.
After the cpl writtens , the only time spent training drivers is type specific.
So although a lot of drivers would like to think that they have superior weight and balance training, most do not.
As for saying that the only time you can call yourself a despatcher is when you have trained under the american system, well not only is this statement untrue , it is as ridiculous as saying the same for pilots.
Id like to 'deliver' your paperwork, you arrogant assho*e
First of all in my experience , Despatchers get a hell of a lot more training for weight and balance than the drivers do.
After the cpl writtens , the only time spent training drivers is type specific.
So although a lot of drivers would like to think that they have superior weight and balance training, most do not.
As for saying that the only time you can call yourself a despatcher is when you have trained under the american system, well not only is this statement untrue , it is as ridiculous as saying the same for pilots.
Id like to 'deliver' your paperwork, you arrogant assho*e
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Oh wel,
Dear dispatcher, sorry but most of you can type all the stuff in the computer, push on the print button and present the result to the drivers. They then have to sign for it and if it's not okay then it's slightly more then just the drivers ass thats on the line!
And healyg, don't forget that if you are not around, ALL of us are perfectly capable of making our own loadsheet! Now who is the "arrogant assho*e"?
To get back to the topic, that was about flight deck loading, or helping loading the baggage. Yes it does happen. Then some snotty remark, from a load/controller turned the whole conversation in a different direction.
Dear CainanUK, stop whining, its not our fault that your boss underpays you and makes you work silly hours. But I fail to see why I should therefore stop asking you where my bagage is and why I should just sit back and miss a slot because you didn't sleep well last night, it's nothing personal, we just like to try and leave on time. You claim your a professional and would like to be treated that way, then start acting like one!
Like I said, It isn't personal, I'm a proffesional and would like to leave on time, If I'm ready but part of the ground sevices are not then guess who I will talk to...............Go on, a wild guess..........yes, thats right, the load controller. If he doesn't like that and does take it personal then thats his problem, NOT MINE!
Dear dispatcher, sorry but most of you can type all the stuff in the computer, push on the print button and present the result to the drivers. They then have to sign for it and if it's not okay then it's slightly more then just the drivers ass thats on the line!
And healyg, don't forget that if you are not around, ALL of us are perfectly capable of making our own loadsheet! Now who is the "arrogant assho*e"?
To get back to the topic, that was about flight deck loading, or helping loading the baggage. Yes it does happen. Then some snotty remark, from a load/controller turned the whole conversation in a different direction.
Dear CainanUK, stop whining, its not our fault that your boss underpays you and makes you work silly hours. But I fail to see why I should therefore stop asking you where my bagage is and why I should just sit back and miss a slot because you didn't sleep well last night, it's nothing personal, we just like to try and leave on time. You claim your a professional and would like to be treated that way, then start acting like one!
Like I said, It isn't personal, I'm a proffesional and would like to leave on time, If I'm ready but part of the ground sevices are not then guess who I will talk to...............Go on, a wild guess..........yes, thats right, the load controller. If he doesn't like that and does take it personal then thats his problem, NOT MINE!
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A message to everyone who is having a dig at the ground crews at MAN.
I work at EGCC as a baggage/ramp agent and i have to say that the reason that the bags are late coming out is due to Manchester plc not bothering revamping the baggage hall (most of the time).
I work my balls off all day and night in an attempt to get the bags out on time but its frustrating when you have to walk to nearly every chute in the hall to find missing bags (thats when the conveyors ARE working). I and my colleagues work very hard in our job and for VERY LITTLE reward. I am treated like ***** and paid a measely wage and i am trying my hardest to get the job which you already have and on £10k a year thats VERY hard. So i ask for a little understanding when bags come out late or miss etc because this is mostly due to the facilities. I am glad that i have become a baggage/ramp agent before becoming a pilot because i will have knowledge about the other side of the industry which it appears a lot of pilots do not! Therefore giving more consideration to the ground staff because they do a very hard (physically) job for not much reward.
I dont mean to ruffle any feathers but i do ask for more consideration in light of the common misconception that we (ground staff) are all no hopers when in fact i, and im sure many more like me, will be sat in the captains seat of a wonderful airliner some day.
Cheers
Dave
I work at EGCC as a baggage/ramp agent and i have to say that the reason that the bags are late coming out is due to Manchester plc not bothering revamping the baggage hall (most of the time).
I work my balls off all day and night in an attempt to get the bags out on time but its frustrating when you have to walk to nearly every chute in the hall to find missing bags (thats when the conveyors ARE working). I and my colleagues work very hard in our job and for VERY LITTLE reward. I am treated like ***** and paid a measely wage and i am trying my hardest to get the job which you already have and on £10k a year thats VERY hard. So i ask for a little understanding when bags come out late or miss etc because this is mostly due to the facilities. I am glad that i have become a baggage/ramp agent before becoming a pilot because i will have knowledge about the other side of the industry which it appears a lot of pilots do not! Therefore giving more consideration to the ground staff because they do a very hard (physically) job for not much reward.
I dont mean to ruffle any feathers but i do ask for more consideration in light of the common misconception that we (ground staff) are all no hopers when in fact i, and im sure many more like me, will be sat in the captains seat of a wonderful airliner some day.
Cheers
Dave
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With so many experts around????????? how come any flight is delayed........
Same old Manchester story and its getting very boring.
Yes £20 million upgrade of the baggage system underway and yes, 10 years too late, but lets hope it makes things better.
.
Why do we aleays have this blame culture at MAN. Its never the airlines fault that the aircraft is tech or a crew member is sick etc etc. They can just delay a flight and everyone else has to react.
Im sorry, but some of you guys really don,t know what you are talking about when it comes to ground handling. You show that by your comments and the 'I know better' mentality. Have you ever done the work? Would you do it for 10 - 15k a year? Yes competition is big at MAN and it is going that way within the airlines.
Once again, talk to your airport managers to find out how the handling companies are doing as they will have a better idea or do you think that some of them are a waste of time.
Getting back to the thread, was the flight on time or about 10 hours late, during which the handling company staff have been sworn at, spat at and threatened without assistance from the airlines. Look at all sides before commenting and you never know that one day we may all be able to work in harmony!!!!
Final comment to the CAA..Licence all dispatchers who do wt and bal as the work is the most under rated on the ground.
Time for a beer!!!!!!!
Same old Manchester story and its getting very boring.
Yes £20 million upgrade of the baggage system underway and yes, 10 years too late, but lets hope it makes things better.
.
Why do we aleays have this blame culture at MAN. Its never the airlines fault that the aircraft is tech or a crew member is sick etc etc. They can just delay a flight and everyone else has to react.
Im sorry, but some of you guys really don,t know what you are talking about when it comes to ground handling. You show that by your comments and the 'I know better' mentality. Have you ever done the work? Would you do it for 10 - 15k a year? Yes competition is big at MAN and it is going that way within the airlines.
Once again, talk to your airport managers to find out how the handling companies are doing as they will have a better idea or do you think that some of them are a waste of time.
Getting back to the thread, was the flight on time or about 10 hours late, during which the handling company staff have been sworn at, spat at and threatened without assistance from the airlines. Look at all sides before commenting and you never know that one day we may all be able to work in harmony!!!!
Final comment to the CAA..Licence all dispatchers who do wt and bal as the work is the most under rated on the ground.
Time for a beer!!!!!!!
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Right, now we're getting somewhere.
MAN Airport needs a baggage system that doesn't go sick at about 4pm Friday and is not fully fit until 10 am Monday (if truly ever fully fit).
The CAA need to bring in rules requiring dispatchers to be licensed for w&b etc.
The handling companies have to train their good guys and pay for the licence (I bet a bond will be involved, this is aviation after all).
We (flight deck) need to learn to appreciate the good handling guys and gals that are out there.
We've all got to get along a lot better or the rest of our careers are going to be really miserable because we're going to be seeing a lot of each other over the coming years.
And finally Esther, someone, somewhere, has got to teach the self loading freight to behave in a semi decent manner. Nobody delays a flight for fun so stop bl@@dy well picking a fight with the first person that has a uniform on and realise that **** happens, so live with it. After all we know how the authorities treat pillocks who think it is clever to pick on aircrew these days.
Right, lets stop picking holes in each other. I apologise if I have really got up some people's noses but I am no diplomat so lets get out there and have a successful weekend.
lurkio
MAN Airport needs a baggage system that doesn't go sick at about 4pm Friday and is not fully fit until 10 am Monday (if truly ever fully fit).
The CAA need to bring in rules requiring dispatchers to be licensed for w&b etc.
The handling companies have to train their good guys and pay for the licence (I bet a bond will be involved, this is aviation after all).
We (flight deck) need to learn to appreciate the good handling guys and gals that are out there.
We've all got to get along a lot better or the rest of our careers are going to be really miserable because we're going to be seeing a lot of each other over the coming years.
And finally Esther, someone, somewhere, has got to teach the self loading freight to behave in a semi decent manner. Nobody delays a flight for fun so stop bl@@dy well picking a fight with the first person that has a uniform on and realise that **** happens, so live with it. After all we know how the authorities treat pillocks who think it is clever to pick on aircrew these days.
Right, lets stop picking holes in each other. I apologise if I have really got up some people's noses but I am no diplomat so lets get out there and have a successful weekend.
lurkio
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well seems like it was just a nasty rumor as nobody seems to know anything about it. would just like to say that us groundcrew work dam hard day in day out,doesnt help when your company is very very short staffed and the managers dont give a ****
sorry guys no time for a break your next aircraft is on the stand!!
sorry guys no time for a break your next aircraft is on the stand!!
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Come do my job for a week. Work the hours I work for the ***** pay that I get. Put up with jerks. Be talked down to all day. Spend an entire day making excuses to "El Capitan" because the facilities and staffing levels at MAN are disgraceful at best. Do all that and then tell me to "stop whining".
You talk down to us and most of us dont like it.
What is really sad is that while many pilots mistreat the ground crews (dispatchers especially), all I want is to do what you do.....
Fly.
You talk down to us and most of us dont like it.
What is really sad is that while many pilots mistreat the ground crews (dispatchers especially), all I want is to do what you do.....
Fly.
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All
An interesting thread! However, the vitriol contained in some of these posts is symptomatic of the whole problem – what is called for is mutual respect and understanding. A Dispatcher, Ramp Agent, Traffic Officer, call the job what you will, has the almost impossible task of keeping everyone happy as well as putting up with their own managements shortcomings. I worked in this position with a handling agent for a considerable time and during a free and frank discussion with the Managing Director on staff retention and conditions his comment was “staff are two a penny and there are always plenty more”. This was fundamental in my decision to get out and work for an airline. I would encourage handling agent dispatch staff to do the same, however, the grass is not always greener.
Flight Deck crew only see the dispatcher as working their flight, they may not realise that this is the third or fourth consecutive turnaround worked with no break, all of which have been frought with problems. The pressures put on dispatch staff to meet slots, minimise delays, and solve problems are immense.
What the majority of dispatchers don’t seem to grasp are the pressures put on pilots, crazy rostering, multi-leg days etc take their toll. Yes, some cope with it better than others and are mostly cheerful and approachable while others have had it up to the back teeth and non- delivery of baggage for loading can be the last straw.
CAA licensed dispatchers is not the answer – its not going to change anything – will the understaffed baggage make-up teams put extra effort into getting the bags to the aircraft just because the dispatcher is CAA licensed? Of course not!
Will the aircraft commander be more understanding because the Dispatcher holds a CAA license? Of course not!
In order to turn an aircraft all those involved need to work as a team and be constantly informed of what’s happening. In short communicate with each other, respect each other and try to understand the pressures the other is under.
I have seen dispatchers swaggering around as if they own the airport refusing to get involved in anything manual, conversely, I have seen dispatchers helping to load and unload aircraft, sometimes getting down and dirty is required, and exactly the same can be said for pilots. We all have to work together – it is human nature that everyone will not get on together. I guess it can all be summed up as:
You don’t have to like me, just respect the job I do.
Cheers
An interesting thread! However, the vitriol contained in some of these posts is symptomatic of the whole problem – what is called for is mutual respect and understanding. A Dispatcher, Ramp Agent, Traffic Officer, call the job what you will, has the almost impossible task of keeping everyone happy as well as putting up with their own managements shortcomings. I worked in this position with a handling agent for a considerable time and during a free and frank discussion with the Managing Director on staff retention and conditions his comment was “staff are two a penny and there are always plenty more”. This was fundamental in my decision to get out and work for an airline. I would encourage handling agent dispatch staff to do the same, however, the grass is not always greener.
Flight Deck crew only see the dispatcher as working their flight, they may not realise that this is the third or fourth consecutive turnaround worked with no break, all of which have been frought with problems. The pressures put on dispatch staff to meet slots, minimise delays, and solve problems are immense.
What the majority of dispatchers don’t seem to grasp are the pressures put on pilots, crazy rostering, multi-leg days etc take their toll. Yes, some cope with it better than others and are mostly cheerful and approachable while others have had it up to the back teeth and non- delivery of baggage for loading can be the last straw.
CAA licensed dispatchers is not the answer – its not going to change anything – will the understaffed baggage make-up teams put extra effort into getting the bags to the aircraft just because the dispatcher is CAA licensed? Of course not!
Will the aircraft commander be more understanding because the Dispatcher holds a CAA license? Of course not!
In order to turn an aircraft all those involved need to work as a team and be constantly informed of what’s happening. In short communicate with each other, respect each other and try to understand the pressures the other is under.
I have seen dispatchers swaggering around as if they own the airport refusing to get involved in anything manual, conversely, I have seen dispatchers helping to load and unload aircraft, sometimes getting down and dirty is required, and exactly the same can be said for pilots. We all have to work together – it is human nature that everyone will not get on together. I guess it can all be summed up as:
You don’t have to like me, just respect the job I do.
Cheers
Well just to keep you up todate on Ringway Handling.............is trying to survive in a repackaging and restructuring program,which will be put before the board next week.
Its trying to turn itself around,but in the of todays cheap and cheerful-we want -it -for -nothing,airlines,its finding it hard too justify its exsistence.
There are just too many Handling agents vying for too little work,and those that have it cannot turn a profit,so why exist????.
And this is the way the parent company seems to view things,why bother with the hassle,why not let the other Handling agents do their own work.
Truth is the workforce do there damndest to make things work,but the resources in staffing and equipment just do not stretch to cover every eventuality,like off-schedule and sickness,and this is all caused by the airlines not wishing to part with anymore of there hard earned cash.
Profits are down at most airlines,but they are certainly not making a loss,and this is what they excpect the Handling agents to do to accomadate them.
Solution.................cough up............and you will get a better service....or put up and shut up...........
Its trying to turn itself around,but in the of todays cheap and cheerful-we want -it -for -nothing,airlines,its finding it hard too justify its exsistence.
There are just too many Handling agents vying for too little work,and those that have it cannot turn a profit,so why exist????.
And this is the way the parent company seems to view things,why bother with the hassle,why not let the other Handling agents do their own work.
Truth is the workforce do there damndest to make things work,but the resources in staffing and equipment just do not stretch to cover every eventuality,like off-schedule and sickness,and this is all caused by the airlines not wishing to part with anymore of there hard earned cash.
Profits are down at most airlines,but they are certainly not making a loss,and this is what they excpect the Handling agents to do to accomadate them.
Solution.................cough up............and you will get a better service....or put up and shut up...........
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CainanUK,
I retrospect I was way too harsh in my earlier posting. Unfortunately missed the tounge-in-cheek, a result of too many consecutive night flights with all the problems in question having occured. I think LITOW has it spot on.
On time performance is crucial. Nothing destroys an airlines reputation faster with Joe public than delays. Handling companies and airlines need to recognise the current situation and agree to the hiring and training of more handling staff. In return, a dramatically improved performance for which the airlines would be prepared to pay. Then the pressure is largely removed and everyone is nice to each other! At the moment the airlines are just going to the cheapest because it's the same problems whichever company you choose.
I retrospect I was way too harsh in my earlier posting. Unfortunately missed the tounge-in-cheek, a result of too many consecutive night flights with all the problems in question having occured. I think LITOW has it spot on.
On time performance is crucial. Nothing destroys an airlines reputation faster with Joe public than delays. Handling companies and airlines need to recognise the current situation and agree to the hiring and training of more handling staff. In return, a dramatically improved performance for which the airlines would be prepared to pay. Then the pressure is largely removed and everyone is nice to each other! At the moment the airlines are just going to the cheapest because it's the same problems whichever company you choose.