Locked Flight Deck Doors - Ryanair
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Locked Flight Deck Doors - Ryanair
Can anyone out there tell me - do Ryanair operate a locked Flight Deck door policy? In fact do the Irish Authorities require them to? I went to Turin earlier this year with Ryanair and it was clear such a policy was not being followed.
It could have just been an 'oversight' by the crew. In the light of the Stockholm incident it would be interesting to know.
It could have just been an 'oversight' by the crew. In the light of the Stockholm incident it would be interesting to know.
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Ryanair this, Ryanair that.....god, this place is getting boring.....
Stop whining about Ryanair on pprune (won't make any difference in the real world), and contact the IAA, otherwise please give the Ryanair flim-flam a rest.
Recently there's been too much rubbish and no fact to these threads (apart from 'I have friends at Ryanair, and apparently'.......yeah, right...)
Stop whining about Ryanair on pprune (won't make any difference in the real world), and contact the IAA, otherwise please give the Ryanair flim-flam a rest.
Recently there's been too much rubbish and no fact to these threads (apart from 'I have friends at Ryanair, and apparently'.......yeah, right...)
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Leviathan, give him a break it could be a genuine query.
TLAR, suggest you contact the Irish Aviation Authority, give them all the details and see what they say.
see: http://www.iaa.ie
TLAR, suggest you contact the Irish Aviation Authority, give them all the details and see what they say.
see: http://www.iaa.ie
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I flew UK-Greek Islands in May with a UK charter (A320) and the door was not locked or closed much of the time.
Cabin crew entered freely, without a key.
Doesn't bother me personally, just thought I'd mention it. Ryanair aren't the only ones you know...
Cabin crew entered freely, without a key.
Doesn't bother me personally, just thought I'd mention it. Ryanair aren't the only ones you know...
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Now unless they open the door just how are the cabin crew meant to bring in the food and drinks, and / or how are the flight crew meant to be able to use the toilets and or stretch their legs ( assuming here that we're not immune to DVT ) ? ........ and of course as soon as that door's opened we're vulnerable !
Bottom line is that the locked door policy is a waste of time, becuase all any self-respecting terrorists have to do is to wait for the right moment for it to be opened during the normal course of flight operations.
Bottom line is that the locked door policy is a waste of time, becuase all any self-respecting terrorists have to do is to wait for the right moment for it to be opened during the normal course of flight operations.
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Can't comment about Ryanair but EJ would appear not to lock it either based on my last two flights. The location of the foward toilet makes loitering by the cockpit door easier. A BA flight to Barcelona a few weeks previously was the opposite. Locked door (that also seemed to have reinforcing plate on) and zero communication from the flt deck en route. As a passenger an unlocked door isn't really a concern for me. Poor airport security is.
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Devils Advocate is absolutely right. The entire locked door policy is a complete and utter waste of time introduced by bureaucrats so that they feel they have done something. They should spend a few days flying Charter to realise that it is stupid and unnecessary and certainly would not stop any hijackers.
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Localiser Green. How did you "know" the Cockpit door was unlocked all the time. It can be unlocked temporarily(from within) to permit entry of food/water and so that Pilots can take a pee every now and then!! Dont make assumptions based on flimsy evidence.
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Whats this then DevilsAdvocate, Cabin Crew, - FOOD to the crew on a Ryanair flight deck !, oh come on ! You know the FO runs into the terminal with two pot noodles looking for hot water.Jeesh, food....ryanair.......well I never.....
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not what it seems
the airlineI work for along with all UK airlines has a locked door policy but to the casual observer it might not seem that way.
I am not going to tell an open forum about the drills that we use except to say that the door is locked unless entry to the cockpit is required by one of the crew.
I am not going to tell an open forum about the drills that we use except to say that the door is locked unless entry to the cockpit is required by one of the crew.
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An aviation industry insider has said that Irish owned low cost airline "Ryanair" is putting passengers lives at risk. A quote taken from a well known aviation website stated that "what they do is let passengers buy tickets and then put them on aeroplanes". It is believed competitors are trying to stop this saying that "over the years there have been a series of accidents where passengers have got on aircraft and aircraft have crashed". He said "to allow Ryanair to put people at risk like this, for fares much more competitive than ours is simply unacceptable".
Other alleged practises include flying with only one engine on to save fuel, flying with only one pilot to cut employment overheads, disregarding ATC instructions and flying where and when they want, and not providing passengers with a 5 star hotel if they flight is delayed more than 1 hour.
Cut the Ryanair this, Ryanair that C*&p. If you have a serious grievance you think should be addressed report it to the IAA or CAA, not on PPRUNE.
Other alleged practises include flying with only one engine on to save fuel, flying with only one pilot to cut employment overheads, disregarding ATC instructions and flying where and when they want, and not providing passengers with a 5 star hotel if they flight is delayed more than 1 hour.
Cut the Ryanair this, Ryanair that C*&p. If you have a serious grievance you think should be addressed report it to the IAA or CAA, not on PPRUNE.
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The Public's Perception
From DT's Travel Section:
'Following the discovery of a hand gun in the luggage of a passenger trying to board a Ryanair flight from Sweden to Stansted last week, The Daily Telegraph has uncovered worrying evidence that cockpit doors are still not being secured on aircraft.
Civil Aviation Authority guidelines issued after the terrorist attacks of September 11 stated that pilots must lock the cockpit doors. All visits to the flight deck were banned.
It has also emerged that cockpit modificatons involving the fitting of steel reinforced doors that can withstand gunfire have not been carried out.
British-registered aircraft have until April to fit the new doors and international airlines will not have to comply with the new directives until November next year.
However, several dozen Daily Telegraph readers have written expressing concern that the cockpit doors are not being locked or even closed on some flights.
Martin Postranecky, from London, said: "During the past few months I have flown a number of times between London and Prague with Go.
"The cabin staff have repeatedly entered the cockpit, leaving the doors wide open while serving food and coffee to the pilots. Numerous times the doors were left unlatched while they prepared hot drinks in the adjacent galley.
"Passengers were using the toilet adjacent to the cockpit door yet the whole atmosphere was of a total lack of concern."
Keith Graves, a Briton living in Cyprus, wrote to tell us of a recent flight from Cyprus to London Heathrow on Cyprus Airways. "The door to the cockpit was frequently left open and never locked.
"An hour into the flight a young man dressed in jeans and a T-shirt bounded past me, through the open cockpit door and slammed it behind him. I am an experienced air traveller and do not easily panic, but I suffered one of those heart-stopping moments when sweat breaks out in the middle of your back.
"I asked one of the cabin crew what was going on. 'No need to get worried,' she said, 'he's the pilot's son.' Several times during the flight the young man wandered in and out of the cockpit, as did another passenger who was apparently a 'friend' of one of the crew."
Andrew Barker, from Market Harborough, Leicestershire, said that on a Ryanair flight from Stansted to Pescara last month he watched the cabin crew wander in and out of the cockpit at least five times.
A spokeswoman for the CAA, which only sets safety regulations for UK-based airlines, said it was "concerned" that cockpit doors were being left open and would take up the matter with the airlines concerned.
Chris Yates, aviation security editor of Jane's Transport magazine, said many of the initiatives brought in after September 11 were "confidence boosters" and that many deadlines for bringing in stronger security would not be met.
"In the immediate aftermath of the terrorist attacks, confident words by elected representatives gave hope that finally the fundamental flaws in airport security would be addressed," said Mr Yates.
"But, as we approach the anniversary of that tragic day, rhetoric remains high while the substance remains appallingly low."
Mr Yates said that the "confidence boosters" included preventing passengers from carrying sharp items in their hand luggage, deploying more law enforcement personnel at airports and requiring airlines to secure and reinforce cockpit doors.
But he added that the questions regarding better passenger screening and ensuring all baggage carried on flights was examined for explosives remained unanswered.
He said he had found ample evidence of a system that "continually fails to protect passengers".
Mr Yates also bemoaned the fact that a European transport ministers' deadline to have all baggage on flights examined for explosives by the end of this year had been put back for one year "amid rancour between national governments, the airlines and airports over who would pay".
A spokesman for the Department of Transport said enhanced security measures had been introduced. "These, including the removal of sharp objects and the locking of cockpit doors, are practical responses. Nevertheless, we remain vigilant and keep all measures under review."
The public perception seems to be that this is a general problem, not confined to any airline in particular.
'Following the discovery of a hand gun in the luggage of a passenger trying to board a Ryanair flight from Sweden to Stansted last week, The Daily Telegraph has uncovered worrying evidence that cockpit doors are still not being secured on aircraft.
Civil Aviation Authority guidelines issued after the terrorist attacks of September 11 stated that pilots must lock the cockpit doors. All visits to the flight deck were banned.
It has also emerged that cockpit modificatons involving the fitting of steel reinforced doors that can withstand gunfire have not been carried out.
British-registered aircraft have until April to fit the new doors and international airlines will not have to comply with the new directives until November next year.
However, several dozen Daily Telegraph readers have written expressing concern that the cockpit doors are not being locked or even closed on some flights.
Martin Postranecky, from London, said: "During the past few months I have flown a number of times between London and Prague with Go.
"The cabin staff have repeatedly entered the cockpit, leaving the doors wide open while serving food and coffee to the pilots. Numerous times the doors were left unlatched while they prepared hot drinks in the adjacent galley.
"Passengers were using the toilet adjacent to the cockpit door yet the whole atmosphere was of a total lack of concern."
Keith Graves, a Briton living in Cyprus, wrote to tell us of a recent flight from Cyprus to London Heathrow on Cyprus Airways. "The door to the cockpit was frequently left open and never locked.
"An hour into the flight a young man dressed in jeans and a T-shirt bounded past me, through the open cockpit door and slammed it behind him. I am an experienced air traveller and do not easily panic, but I suffered one of those heart-stopping moments when sweat breaks out in the middle of your back.
"I asked one of the cabin crew what was going on. 'No need to get worried,' she said, 'he's the pilot's son.' Several times during the flight the young man wandered in and out of the cockpit, as did another passenger who was apparently a 'friend' of one of the crew."
Andrew Barker, from Market Harborough, Leicestershire, said that on a Ryanair flight from Stansted to Pescara last month he watched the cabin crew wander in and out of the cockpit at least five times.
A spokeswoman for the CAA, which only sets safety regulations for UK-based airlines, said it was "concerned" that cockpit doors were being left open and would take up the matter with the airlines concerned.
Chris Yates, aviation security editor of Jane's Transport magazine, said many of the initiatives brought in after September 11 were "confidence boosters" and that many deadlines for bringing in stronger security would not be met.
"In the immediate aftermath of the terrorist attacks, confident words by elected representatives gave hope that finally the fundamental flaws in airport security would be addressed," said Mr Yates.
"But, as we approach the anniversary of that tragic day, rhetoric remains high while the substance remains appallingly low."
Mr Yates said that the "confidence boosters" included preventing passengers from carrying sharp items in their hand luggage, deploying more law enforcement personnel at airports and requiring airlines to secure and reinforce cockpit doors.
But he added that the questions regarding better passenger screening and ensuring all baggage carried on flights was examined for explosives remained unanswered.
He said he had found ample evidence of a system that "continually fails to protect passengers".
Mr Yates also bemoaned the fact that a European transport ministers' deadline to have all baggage on flights examined for explosives by the end of this year had been put back for one year "amid rancour between national governments, the airlines and airports over who would pay".
A spokesman for the Department of Transport said enhanced security measures had been introduced. "These, including the removal of sharp objects and the locking of cockpit doors, are practical responses. Nevertheless, we remain vigilant and keep all measures under review."
The public perception seems to be that this is a general problem, not confined to any airline in particular.
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Max Flyup
Can't entirely agree. Yes, the burocrats had to do something, and while I absolutely feel they've got it wrong with the ban on family members, the reinforced and secure door policy seems perfectly reasonable post the New York atrocity and the lunatic over Africa.
How well it will work in the event of an another attack will depend on crews following their SOPs...
Can't entirely agree. Yes, the burocrats had to do something, and while I absolutely feel they've got it wrong with the ban on family members, the reinforced and secure door policy seems perfectly reasonable post the New York atrocity and the lunatic over Africa.
How well it will work in the event of an another attack will depend on crews following their SOPs...
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Seems a genuine question based on what has been written here about British and American carriers!
BTW it is not an airlinepolicy of locking doors but rather the airline implementing a Government policy - which they are required to do - no choice. The same applies to flight deck access which is just about to become more restrictive.
Having mentioned Ryanair though, they have a great commercial advantage. The UK government returned from the G8 meeting with Toady Blair insisting that Britain would lead the way on Phase 2 doors by April 2003 - the rest of the world (except the US) have until October. The UK carriers will be required to lay out millions - literally - in advance of foreign carriers flying into the same airports.
.....and QUOTE "it is the governments policy that the ordinary tax payer will not subsidise those who wish to travel by air" unquote so no financial assistance for the UK carriers
Anne
BTW it is not an airlinepolicy of locking doors but rather the airline implementing a Government policy - which they are required to do - no choice. The same applies to flight deck access which is just about to become more restrictive.
Having mentioned Ryanair though, they have a great commercial advantage. The UK government returned from the G8 meeting with Toady Blair insisting that Britain would lead the way on Phase 2 doors by April 2003 - the rest of the world (except the US) have until October. The UK carriers will be required to lay out millions - literally - in advance of foreign carriers flying into the same airports.
.....and QUOTE "it is the governments policy that the ordinary tax payer will not subsidise those who wish to travel by air" unquote so no financial assistance for the UK carriers
Anne
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Please close this thread. I am troubled.
This is today's installment of pish. Unimaginative in the extreme and offensive.
Re-education is required for ex-empire culprits. STOP BEING IDIOTIC & PREJUDICED!
The CAA cover Island next to Ireland and other bits nearby. The FAA cover the US de ya see and the IAA cover Ireland.
Government policy - when formulated- affects you depending on your jurisdiction and if you are SUBJECT to that goverment (or ultimately monarch in some cases "the Queen in Parliament is sovereign"). EU directive - FULLY BINDING - irrespective of your location in the EU or monarch. (That hasn't quite sunk in yet!).
Interesting that for FTSE 100 listing purposes FR was immediately branded - Irish.
European Union my h*le!
Jolly hockey stick lad & lassies - you rascist mob. Stop unfounded attacks that are obviously skewed and weighted. Enough is enough. Am I being reasonable?
This is today's installment of pish. Unimaginative in the extreme and offensive.
Re-education is required for ex-empire culprits. STOP BEING IDIOTIC & PREJUDICED!
The CAA cover Island next to Ireland and other bits nearby. The FAA cover the US de ya see and the IAA cover Ireland.
Government policy - when formulated- affects you depending on your jurisdiction and if you are SUBJECT to that goverment (or ultimately monarch in some cases "the Queen in Parliament is sovereign"). EU directive - FULLY BINDING - irrespective of your location in the EU or monarch. (That hasn't quite sunk in yet!).
Interesting that for FTSE 100 listing purposes FR was immediately branded - Irish.
European Union my h*le!
Jolly hockey stick lad & lassies - you rascist mob. Stop unfounded attacks that are obviously skewed and weighted. Enough is enough. Am I being reasonable?